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  #1  
Old 02-05-2006, 06:37 PM
Tokarev Tokarev is online now
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Rock Island Extractors Too High?




I've owned three Rock Island pistols (still own one) and have noted this on all three of the guns.

The slides pictured here are from Kimber and Rock Island. Both guns are chambered in 9x19. The Kimber still has the factory extractor in place and the Rock Island has an Ed Brown installed. Note that the Kimber's extractor sits lower in the breech face than the RIA. When the guns are out of battery, the Kimber holds the fired case at the 9:00 and the RIA holds the case at 10:00. This higher hold can allow the case to drop free of the extractor and can lead to stovepipes and failures to eject. This happened pretty regularly with one of the RIA guns I had if I used a magazine with a concave follower. The other gun failed to eject without a magazine in place.

Ivan, you guys are on the right track with the RIA line for the money and if you can correct a few small issues you'll be the leader in entry-level pistols.

KIMBER:


ROCK ISLAND:
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  #2  
Old 02-05-2006, 09:27 PM
N6CRV N6CRV is offline
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Great Pictures!

Hello Tokarev, you take some great pictures. I have trouble taking a picture of the whole gun.
Don
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  #3  
Old 02-05-2006, 10:54 PM
gman552 gman552 is offline
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Great pictures - what are you using, and techniques?
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  #4  
Old 02-06-2006, 06:05 PM
blackdragon blackdragon is offline
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Tokarev,
Nice pics! Have you looked at a series 70 Colt? That is what our pistol is modeled after. Please send these pics to [email protected]. I will make sure our head Engineer sees them!!!
Thanks
Ivan
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  #5  
Old 02-06-2006, 06:55 PM
wally_666 wally_666 is offline
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Interesting, my Armscor 1911-A2 9mm wide body has an external extractor. Its about as reliable as any gun shooting cheap CCI Aluminum Blazer or Steel cased Monarch & Wolf ammo can be -- less than one extraction failure per 1000 rounds. When I start geting them, I clean the gun, its due, had one out of 300 rounds shot today usually go 1500-2500 rounds between cleanings.

--wally.
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  #6  
Old 02-06-2006, 07:03 PM
Tokarev Tokarev is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wally_666
Interesting, my Armscor 1911-A2 9mm wide body has an external extractor. Its about as reliable as any gun shooting cheap CCI Aluminum Blazer or Steel cased Monarch & Wolf ammo can be -- less than one extraction failure per 1000 rounds. When I start geting them, I clean the gun, its due, had one out of 300 rounds shot today usually go 1500-2500 rounds between cleanings.

--wally.
I examined one of the newer Armscor guns recently. It had the external extractor. The external extractor gun looked more like the Kimber with regard to extractor height and position. I've got a Caspian gun with their external extractor. It sits much lower than the Rock Island also.

My SW 1911 Sc has the extractor in the same place as the internal extractor RIA. It fails to eject without a magazine too.
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  #7  
Old 02-06-2006, 08:07 PM
blackdragon blackdragon is offline
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Tokarev,
You realize, that you are comparing our Rock Island's to high dollar pistols!
Ivan
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  #8  
Old 02-06-2006, 08:17 PM
wally_666 wally_666 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackdragon
Tokarev,
You realize, that you are comparing our Rock Island's to high dollar pistols!
Ivan
And in my opinion they compare much better than one might expect for the price!

My RIA internal extractor's top lines up at about the top of the firing pin hole same as Kimber. I've had no stovepipes or extraction/ejection failures yet in over 5000 rounds -- despite shooting a lot of reloads where dings on the rim from previous trips through can cause extraction/ejection problems.

--wally
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  #9  
Old 02-06-2006, 08:23 PM
blackdragon blackdragon is offline
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Every one makes mistakes! ( IE, Manufactuer's ) It's how you take care of it that matters!
Ivan
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  #10  
Old 02-06-2006, 08:42 PM
Tokarev Tokarev is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackdragon
Every one makes mistakes! ( IE, Manufactuer's ) It's how you take care of it that matters!
Ivan
You think S&W will look on here and see what people are saying about their 1911?

Thanks for being here, Ivan.
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  #11  
Old 02-07-2006, 09:19 PM
blackdragon blackdragon is offline
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Tokarev,
Not much of a chance, They sell to the masses! I know several S&W guys, good company! Just caught up in the $$$$ making!
Ivan
PS
Please send me those great pics! I want to find out what they say in PI
Ivan
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  #12  
Old 02-20-2006, 10:46 AM
Tokarev Tokarev is online now
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Ivan,

Any update on this after the SHOT show?

I do have a Series 70 Colt. It's got the lower extractor like the Kimber pictured above. Too bad it's up at Yost's getting worked on. Otherwise I'd post a picture of it also.

Maybe somebody else here can snap a pic?
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  #13  
Old 02-20-2006, 06:39 PM
blackdragon blackdragon is offline
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Tokarev,
I have sent the pics to our head Engineer. I'm Awaiting his response!!!
Ivan
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  #14  
Old 02-20-2006, 11:47 PM
carmoney carmoney is offline
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Tokarev, your photos are interesting.....after looking at them in some detail, it actually appears that the RIA's extractor is almost exactly aligned with the firing pin channel, and the one on the Kimber is somewhat lower. I don't claim any particular expertise in this area, but I guess I would expect that if the extractor tension is adjusted properly, the RIA's extractor hook would be at exactly 9 o'clock on the cartridge rim.

What am I missing here?

Mike
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  #15  
Old 02-21-2006, 06:07 AM
Tokarev Tokarev is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carmoney
Tokarev, your photos are interesting.....after looking at them in some detail, it actually appears that the RIA's extractor is almost exactly aligned with the firing pin channel, and the one on the Kimber is somewhat lower. I don't claim any particular expertise in this area, but I guess I would expect that if the extractor tension is adjusted properly, the RIA's extractor hook would be at exactly 9 o'clock on the cartridge rim.

What am I missing here?

Mike
The RIA extractor would only be at the 9:00 position on the casing while the gun is in battery. As the slide travels rearward and the barrel tilts down, the casing will be moved down with it. Ejection doesn't begin until after the barrel is unlocked.
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  #16  
Old 02-25-2006, 12:01 PM
HankC HankC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokarev
The RIA extractor would only be at the 9:00 position on the casing while the gun is in battery. As the slide travels rearward and the barrel tilts down, the casing will be moved down with it. Ejection doesn't begin until after the barrel is unlocked.
Agree. Don't have a 1911 yet, but my BHPs are with extractors positioned lower than firing pin holes. All Armscor/RIA like this? Can not believe they missed this one. Any update from RIA on this? RIA is on my shopping list, don't want this to be a show stopper.

Hank
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  #17  
Old 02-25-2006, 04:35 PM
Tokarev Tokarev is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HankC
Agree. Don't have a 1911 yet, but my BHPs are with extractors positioned lower than firing pin holes. All Armscor/RIA like this? Can not believe they missed this one. Any update from RIA on this? RIA is on my shopping list, don't want this to be a show stopper.

Hank
I've owned two Armscor .45's and both of them had high extractors, as does my Rock Island 9mm. A shooting buddy recently bought a newer enhanced model with an external extractor and it's down low where it should be.
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  #18  
Old 02-25-2006, 05:59 PM
wally_666 wally_666 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HankC
Agree. Don't have a 1911 yet, but my BHPs are with extractors positioned lower than firing pin holes. All Armscor/RIA like this? Can not believe they missed this one. Any update from RIA on this? RIA is on my shopping list, don't want this to be a show stopper.

Hank
As I said earlier in the thread, my RIA extractor and firing pin hole lines up same as shown in the Kimber photo.

It'd be something to look for before you buy. Perhaps it was a bad run or a different subcontractor responsible for the variations.

--wally.
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  #19  
Old 04-06-2006, 11:33 AM
Tokarev Tokarev is online now
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I finally got around to getting a picture of a Springfield Armory breech face. Note that the extractor is low in this picture, too.

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  #20  
Old 04-06-2006, 02:18 PM
jgillaspy jgillaspy is offline
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Where is the picture of the original Colt? Let's compare all of them to the original. . .
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  #21  
Old 04-06-2006, 05:31 PM
Tokarev Tokarev is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgillaspy
Where is the picture of the original Colt? Let's compare all of them to the original. . .
My Series 70 is getting worked over by Ted Yost. If I had it, I would photograph it.

Somebody here must have a Colt they can photo?
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  #22  
Old 04-06-2006, 05:41 PM
blackdragon blackdragon is offline
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It is our opinon that the extractor itself, plays a more important part than where it is placed. Whith in reason.
Ivan
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