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  #1  
Old 10-12-2005, 09:59 PM
WPD80 WPD80 is offline
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Serious Question




Okay fellas,

I have read through a few forums and also a few posts in this one, about the so called problems on the external extractor issue. The question that I have is this, does anyone know if this is a serious issue that Kimber has come out and said? or is this a forum "Thang" that has come up.

I have a Kimber TLE RLII that I just purchased, and for anyone here whom knows what it is like to have three kids a wife and a mortage, you would have to understand that the cash that was saved to buy this weapon took some time to obtain.

Like getting yelled at on overtime shifts from boneheads on the street, got to respond to a disturbance and almost got my ### kicked.....So's I have a little blood and sweat and tears into this Kimber....

NOW FOR THE RECORD, my kimber with the Tripp Research mags has been flawless to date....I am just a little, NO okay alot concerned over this....

Please help me sleep!

Tom
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  #2  
Old 10-12-2005, 10:31 PM
Shootalot Shootalot is offline
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Serious answer.

I own a Kimber Grand Raptor II with, of course, the external extractor and I sleep just fine at night. Day time too if I can squeeze in a nap.

Keep in mind that it seems most of the external extractor issues are either on earlier versions of the extractor and/or barrels less than 5 inches in length. I have shot over 1000 rounds so far with my Grand Raptor II have have NEVER had a failure to extract.

As long as my Kimber continues to properly function I will sleep just fine except when I'm spending time on this forum instead of in bed like I should be right now.

It also seems that if you do have an extractor issue in the future, Kimber will back it up 100%. They will make it work one way or the other. Until or if that time comes, have a great nights sleep.
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  #3  
Old 10-12-2005, 10:44 PM
benzslrpee benzslrpee is offline
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pro raptor

hey...i have a pro raptor 4" barrel with an external extractor, it was sorta problematic the first 500 rounds or so. after that its been smooth sailing without a hitch. AND mine is supposedly the bad combo mix...a 4 inch barrel AND an external extractor.

when ya get your gun, pick up a bunch of ammo and go to town. believe me, the first 400 rounds were tearing at my heart making me wish i bought something else...anything else. now, well now, i just ask it, "baby, where you been all my life?"
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  #4  
Old 10-12-2005, 10:58 PM
Hutch01 Hutch01 is offline
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Don't know about all the others....

But, my Pro CDP with external extractor works flawlessly.

While I don't know for sure, it seems to me that the "PURISTS" in the group are the ones making most of the hype about it. I do suppose that if I had an extraction problem, I might have a different opinion.

As with any mass produced firearm, there are going to be some problems that need to be worked out. At the risk of getting flamed, I'm not convinced that it's as much a problem as it's being made out to be. Who knows? Those that have problems generally shout louder and longer than those that don't.

My suggestion is to shoot it and don't worry. My guess is that you're going to be very pleased.
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  #5  
Old 10-12-2005, 11:19 PM
gaspipes gaspipes is offline
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Well, I'm no purist. And I have a gun, an Eclispe Ultra IIe that fails to extract 10% of the time. I also have a Team Match IIe that has extracted 100% of the time. I thought all the hype about the FTE's was just balogna until it was happening to me.

The current extractor design is no where near the original design that is on my TMII. The TMII I bought was one that was made the first year they came out. It was the only external extractor gun Kimber manufactured at the time. Something happened between then and now.

If the gun works from the start, I'd say you have nothing to worry about. If it has FTE from the start, no amount of rounds will cure the problem because it is not a "break in" issue.
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  #6  
Old 10-13-2005, 12:57 AM
rack&roll rack&roll is offline
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All guns need some breaking in to smooth out and "settle in" so all the metal parts mate properly. But I don't believe a 1911 must be "broken in" in order to function. With quality ammo, it should work right out of the box. Breaking in and smoothing out is just icing on the cake, IMO.

I have owned 4 Kimbers: a series I compact 4", a Target Eclipse II, a Tactical Custom II, and a TLE II. The ones that worked and were reliable, were like that from day one. The ones that were problematic, were fixable. I sold or traded them all for various reasons, but not because they didn't work, but for G.A.S. (Gun Aquisition Syndrome) I kind'a miss them all, and the Eclipse II and TC II were two of the best looking 1911's I've ever seen. (sniff... ) BTW, the only one with the external extractor (early version) was the TC II, and it was the only one that was always 100% reliable. Go figure.

Larry
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  #7  
Old 10-13-2005, 03:08 AM
Greyson Greyson is offline
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Are the problems real? Yep. Does everyone have 'em? Nope.
Does Kimber keep working on the problem with new extractor designs to
solve the problem? Yep.

I have a Gold Combat RL II that I purchased last August. Now I don't have
that many rounds throught it. Maybe 1000. But it worked fine from the
word go.

How many rounds do you have in yours and when did you buy it?
Point being the problem you are worried about shows up pretty quick
at the range. If no problems, be well and God Bless.

Regards,
Greyson
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  #8  
Old 10-13-2005, 04:26 AM
45akp 45akp is offline
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2000rds through my Ultra-Carry II and not one problem with the extractor.
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  #9  
Old 10-13-2005, 09:04 AM
John Hambrick John Hambrick is offline
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Glad you asked this question WPD80, cause I was about to. I, like you, have 2 kids, wife, mortagage, and a car payment. Any firearms I buy were from saving money for a long time! I had just about decided on a Kimber for duty wear, but came across all of the posts on the ext. extractors. Talked with a partner yesterday, and he has a new CDP 5". He only has about 300 rounds through his, but has had no FTE problems.

Earlier I e-mailed Kimber, and got Ryan, not Dennis. I asked about the rumor that they were going back to internal extractors. It was kind of like we can't confirm or deny. That's ok, I guess. He has a boss too. I don't know at this point what I'm going to do, but would hate to buy an ext. extract. pistol now, and then in three months find out that Kimber is shipping new pistols with internals.

Almost posted a discussion for anyone who hasn't had a problem with ext. extractor to sound off, but the search function took care of that for me.
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  #10  
Old 10-13-2005, 09:11 AM
WPD80 WPD80 is offline
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Thank-You to you all for responding.....I have been a Police Officer for 14 years and trust me one can get a little thick skinned .... But for whatever reason this has been eating the living hell out of me... I TRULY love my Kimber TLE RLII

Pic:


Now I have never had a FTE. When I first got it in September of this year, it was used. I have no idea how many rounds were put through it.

I did have three failure to feeds with Wilson 47D 8 round mags, the Wilson 7 rounder worked good.

I did just purchase 3 Tripp Reasearch Mags 8 rndrs, and have fired more than 575 rounds to date with ZERO problems.

So my Kimber rides on my hip for every 3 to 11 shift I work.

Tom
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  #11  
Old 10-13-2005, 09:27 AM
mitrod3 mitrod3 is offline
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due to recent events in our life i have two new cars, no car payments, new house as of a week ago, no mortgage, no debt whatsoever, (do have one wife, four kids, 1 and 1/2 grand kids) and i still had/have two Kimbers with the now famous/infamous External Extractor, and would buy another without hesitation. both functioned through 1000's of rounds each with not one single problem. my first Kimber was a well used TLE II and my second is a Custom II, which is their basic gun. both were standard full size 5 inchers. the Custom II seems to be just one of a kind as it is one of the most accurate production guns i have ever handled.

yes, you can have a problem, but not likely to happen. yes, they can be fixed by Kimber if it does happen.....or by a local smith. our local Master Kimber Dealer has sold many Kimbers over the last years. he has worked on three of those that did have some problem with the external extractor. he did a fairly simply fix (according to him) on each that resolved the problem for less than the shipping price back to Kimber.

i would not let the past issues with the external extractor put you off unless you are just too uncomfortable with that issue to be at peace about it. there are other fine guns out there if need be.

Edit: although i am not in LE, i am very serious about home defense (with good reason from the past) and the Kimber is one of my two primary HD weapons. i trust my families and my life to it's functioning when i need it to.

be safe, shoot well.

Last edited by mitrod3; 10-13-2005 at 09:44 AM.
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  #12  
Old 10-13-2005, 10:06 AM
WPD80 WPD80 is offline
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Thanks again Mitrod!

I understand better now. I still love my Kimber and always will. Good luck to you and congrats on the Bills and Mortgage! I am several years away still from my retirement, and hope to one day be sitting in that same situation. Lord knows me and my wife are working our you know what's off to get there!

Take Care!


Tom
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  #13  
Old 10-13-2005, 10:43 AM
Chuck S Chuck S is offline
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Incorrectly or falsely termed.

So called means incorrectly or falsely termed. Like your so called life.

You claim to have read the messages here and still think there is a "so called problem" with Kimber external extractors -- and by extension Kimber pistols? These are not alleged problems either, they're very real.

I don't doubt the majority of Kimber external extractors work fine. Probably the vast majority. But a failure to extract is the most dangerous stoppage you can have with a M1911 pistol because it can't be cured by simple immediate action.

External extractors have been functioning well in handguns for over 100 years. Kimber just forget to determine how they worked.


-- Chuck
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  #14  
Old 10-13-2005, 11:14 AM
WPD80 WPD80 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck S
So called means incorrectly or falsely termed. Like your so called life.

You claim to have read the messages here and still think there is a "so called problem" with Kimber external extractors -- and by extension Kimber pistols? These are not alleged problems either, they're very real.

I don't doubt the majority of Kimber external extractors work fine. Probably the vast majority. But a failure to extract is the most dangerous stoppage you can have with a M1911 pistol because it can't be cured by simple immediate action.

External extractors have been functioning well in handguns for over 100 years. Kimber just forget to determine how they worked.


-- Chuck
E-mail has been sent to you Chuck S. Please respond. Tom
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  #15  
Old 10-13-2005, 11:24 AM
Chuck S Chuck S is offline
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Did you miss the smiley? It means I'm razzing you.

A "so called problem" is a "false problem" or an "incorrectly" diagnosed problem. Not a problem at all.

Did you mean to imply the "so called problem" doesn't exist or that folks who've been posting documentation here on the "so called" problem are falsifying this?

Or was this just a bad choice of words on your part?

The problem is very real, not "so called."

-- Chuck
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  #16  
Old 10-13-2005, 11:31 AM
mitrod3 mitrod3 is offline
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Chuck.....you make a very good point. There is no good time for a failure, especially a castastrophic one like a FTE when you need that next live round in the barrel.

It is a shame Kimber has had such problems (real ones as you stated) with their external extractor when others have gotten in right over the years and makers like S&W got it right before they introduced their 1911 line.

My two (still have one) have gone through 1000's of rounds without a problem which gives me trust in them, but I guess in the end one must decide for themselves (after shooting many rounds through) whether one has trust in their particular gun or not.

be safe, shoot well.
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  #17  
Old 10-13-2005, 12:12 PM
Custom-guy Custom-guy is offline
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Yes it is "SO REAL" that I will not even consider buying a NEW ex-ex Kimber at all.

Chances are you will get a good one but there is that chance you won't! and I don't want to take that chance, WHY you say? because you set yourself up for potentially having problems and spending your hard earned money sending the gun back and forth to Kimber to try and get it right.

And lets get this right folks on the "SO CALLED" bills.

It's more like, 1 Wife, 2.5 kids (and all their related expense), (extra girl friend???) a mortgage, car payments, insurance across the board, utilities, cell phone, gas, food, family vacation, house up keep, vehicle up keep, taxes, taxes, taxes, did I say taxes? then if anything is left! putting that into investments, IRA, 401k etc so we can retire some day and then and only then buy a 1911 from what little is left over after several months of saving.

I understand your concern. The good thing is Kimber will fix the problem, they are well aware of it but there may be some trial and err that you will have to go through as Chuck and others have had to go through to get it right.

You probably got a good one (TLE-RL). You also did the right thing changing mags and getting the Tripp mags, good choice.

Have you shot the gun yet?
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  #18  
Old 10-13-2005, 12:25 PM
mitrod3 mitrod3 is offline
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custom-guy:

wife and extra girlfriend??????

dang....i'd be really worried about the incredible expense of the very extended hospital stay when the wife found out about the girlfriend.

might mean no more guns for years.

be safe, shoot well.
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  #19  
Old 10-13-2005, 01:56 PM
BobRowe BobRowe is offline
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I've had three Kimbers: (1) Series I Stainless Gold Match; (2) Series I Custom Compact; and (3) my new Raptor II.

All of them bobbled a round or two during the first 100 rounds through the gun. All have been 100% reliable since then.

When I got the Raptor, I notices that the Operator's Manual said to give it a 400-500 round break-in. So I wasn't too concerned when it bobbled a feed about round No. 50. I kept shooting it. Got another 450 rounds through it, with no bobbles after that first and only one.
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  #20  
Old 10-13-2005, 01:57 PM
Darengin Darengin is offline
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can someone clue me in on this. What exactly is the problem that is going on? I am currently working on getting My Tactical Pro II off of layaway and now I'm frightened. It's used. I've fired about 200 rounds through it and had one problem, but that was near the beginning and I havn't had problems again.
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  #21  
Old 10-13-2005, 02:04 PM
mitrod3 mitrod3 is offline
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read through some of the older posts in this area and the "problem" with the external extractor on Kimbers will be clarified more than you ever wanted to know.

or use the search function above and search on external extractor.

for me it has been a non issue, but not so for others.

be safe, shoot well.
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  #22  
Old 10-13-2005, 02:15 PM
seeker55 seeker55 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rack&roll
the TC II, and it was the only one that was always 100% reliable. Go figure.

Larry
I also until recently owned a TCII with over 2500 rds through it and it roared like a Lion ALL the time!! But I to was concerned that because of all the stuff I've read that it was going to go "kerplunk" at the wrong time and my confidence level waned. Tuff choices we have to make - to keep or not to keep!!
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  #23  
Old 10-13-2005, 02:45 PM
mitrod3 mitrod3 is offline
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as we all know, any gun (or gun part) can fail at any given time, seemingly at the whim of the gun powers that be.....but if a gun in general, or individual gun, has shown itself to be reliable over and over and over again that says something.

ultimately those who trust their lives and the lives of others to a specific weapon of choice must decide whether that weapon is truly worthy of their trust.....and then get to know it so well it is 2nd nature to them.

to me, any discomfort with or question of a particular gun can in itself contribute to a failure to use that gun as if it is completely 2nd nature to you and any hesitation at the wrong time can cost one greatly.

it seems we are into the territory of saying that if you don't have complete trust and have faith in your weapon, get one that you do have complete trust and faith in, and then get to know it as well as you know yourself.

sorry to be "preachy", but a life, yours or anothers, may depend upon your choice and your faith in and comfort with that choice.

be safe, shoot well.
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  #24  
Old 10-13-2005, 08:52 PM
gaspipes gaspipes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Hambrick

Earlier I e-mailed Kimber, and got Ryan, not Dennis. I asked about the rumor that they were going back to internal extractors. It was kind of like we can't confirm or deny. That's ok, I guess. He has a boss too. I don't know at this point what I'm going to do, but would hate to buy an ext. extract. pistol now, and then in three months find out that Kimber is shipping new pistols with internals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darengin
can someone clue me in on this. What exactly is the problem that is going on? I am currently working on getting My Tactical Pro II off of layaway and now I'm frightened. It's used. I've fired about 200 rounds through it and had one problem, but that was near the beginning and I havn't had problems again.
http://www.1911forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101540

The Master Dealer I use has two brand new pistols in his case that are internal extractor models. One is an Eclipse Ultra and the other is a Stainless Compact. Both these guns are new production that he just received. These are not old guns that have been sitting around on a shelf in a distributors warehouse for the past 3 years. These guns would normally have the external ex.

Now Kimber may not want to confirm or deny, but they are shipping new series II guns with internal extractors. I've seen two of them.
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  #25  
Old 10-13-2005, 09:16 PM
Shootalot Shootalot is offline
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Raptor series?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gaspipes
http://www.1911forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101540

The Master Dealer I use has two brand new pistols in his case that are internal extractor models. One is an Eclipse Ultra and the other is a Stainless Compact. Both these guns are new production that he just received. These are not old guns that have been sitting around on a shelf in a distributors warehouse for the past 3 years. These guns would normally have the external ex.

Now Kimber may not want to confirm or deny, but they are shipping new series II guns with internal extractors. I've seen two of them.
Has any one seen any Raptor II's with the internal extractor except for Utra Raptor II that comes standard with the internal?
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