1911Forum
Forum   Reviews   Rules   Legal   Site Supporters & Donations   Advertise


Go Back   1911Forum > Hardware & Accessories > Ammo Can


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-19-2005, 09:36 PM
El Viejo El Viejo is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: South Florida
Posts: 302
Frangable Ammo for Home Defense?




I saw something on the tube the other day about certain LEOs using frangible ammo for CQB. This started me thinking about the advisability of using this in my apartment, instead of ball.

Lets get a discussion going.
EV
__________________
Never teach a pig to sing.
It wastes your time and annoys the pig.
  #2  
Old 07-19-2005, 10:14 PM
FLA45Fan FLA45Fan is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Space Coast, FLA
Age: 55
Posts: 272
I would highly advise frangible ammo to be used for home defense purposes for many reasons. First it is less likely to penetrate walls and doors and hurt innocents, like family members, if someone with less experience (like my wife or many of my CWP class students) misses their targets. Secondly, it would be less likely to overpenetrate the attacker's body, possibly hitting a person coming to the aid of the victim. Thirdly, on the same note, it would dump more energy into the attacker's body if it does not penetrate completely through the body. Fourth, the ammo is usually lighter in weight and travels at much higher velocities and has much higher levels of energy, thus more stopping power (higher ft. lbs. of energy).

There are a couple of brands of frangible such as Mag Safe and CorBon Glaser safety slugs that would be excellent for this application.
__________________
1*
NRA Pistol Instructor
NAFI Member
.45ACP & 9mm Lover
  #3  
Old 07-20-2005, 07:49 AM
Japle Japle is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 603
I'm not much of a fan of frangables for the street, but for HD Glaser Silver would be my choice.

John
Cape Canaveral
  #4  
Old 07-22-2005, 02:34 PM
SCfromNY SCfromNY is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 88
I like to mix it up. Twelve shots in magazine. First four frangible next eight JHP.
  #5  
Old 08-21-2005, 02:10 AM
sobrink sobrink is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1
I've been thinking about frangibles for home defense as well...and after reading the replies I've seen posted here and talking to my brothers...I'd have to agree. In a close-quarters furball where shaking hands, straining nerves and mass confusion abounds, frangibles make sense. I'm going shopping tomorrow for a box or two!
  #6  
Old 10-08-2005, 01:33 PM
mrwithasee mrwithasee is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: VA
Posts: 83
12 gauge?

Does anyone make a frangible shotgun shell? I use the Mossberg 590 sitting next to my bed for home defense.
__________________
1*

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure."--Thomas Jefferson, 1787

Equal opportunity offender. Leave your feelings at home.
  #7  
Old 10-10-2005, 11:50 AM
saromans134 saromans134 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 322
Rifle and pistol

Here is my thought. On the LE side alot of us have moved to carbine rifles such as the AR-15 etc. using ballistic tip ammo because it is far safer in CQB than shotguns and even some pistols with JHP. For instance an AR-15 / M4 with 55grain ballistic tip ammo is far more accurate, less likely to over penetrate and many manufacturers have rounds that won't penetrate interior walls of your home. As far as home defense goes I think these rounds, whether in a rifle or pistol, are a great idea for the safety of the members of the household.
  #8  
Old 10-10-2005, 01:43 PM
Hutch01 Hutch01 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 197
Cart before the horse?

The reason for using any kind of firearm in a residence is to stop the intruder; PERIOD. Handguns are notoriously poor at stopping anyway and now we compound that by using frangible ammo which is an additional very poor stopper. Hmmm, seems to me that we haven't solved PROBLEM 1, but are worried about PROBLEM 2 (over penetration or missing) first.

I won't tell you not to use frangible stuff, but if you examine the ballistics you might wonder if it will solve PROBLEM 1. Sure it will make a nasty superficial wound, but will it stop an intruder(s)? Also, consider that the primary culprits doing home invasions nowadays, etc. are druggies looking for the next fix. It might take more than one JPH or FMJ, so how many frangibles will it take? Maybe more than you have loaded?

AR's in .223 will penetrate through walls too (check Box 'o Truth) and so will buckshot.

I would suggest that you use a good quality JHP round and hit the intruder. That means a PLAN to perhaps isolate those in danger and practice, practice, practice to hit where you aim.

I know this is not good news and perhaps not what you wanted to hear, but that's how I see it.... Solve PROBLEM 1 first, and then worry about PROBLEM 2. Otherwise, the intruder just might eliminate you and go on to his PROBLEM 2 which is your family and loved ones....
  #9  
Old 10-10-2005, 03:02 PM
saromans134 saromans134 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 322
Quote:
AR's in .223 will penetrate through walls too (check Box 'o Truth) and so will buckshot.
Hutch 01, I hope we all know that buckshot will go through interior walls in fact more than one with OO and OOO, which is one reason to get away from using it especially in LE agencies. As I was getting at from a LE stand point it ends up being liability, unfortunately, and the penetration not to mention the extra lead from the spread pattern from the shotgun just create more liability. The .223 / 5.56mm in a ballistic tip round offers the better accuracy with good soft tissue wound performance and I have found it in low grain bullets to not penetrate interior walls or vehicle glass, making it necessary to shoot more than one round at these obstacles.
I have to agree that frangible ammo gives concerns of lack of stopping power, especially in handgun calibers, however I think there are some pros to be considered on the safety side that just has to be gauged.

I personally use Speer Gold Dot and Federal Hydra shock for my pistols whether at home or out and about. Frangable ammo for strictly in the home would be a safer option for other household members, especially the one on the otherside of the wall from you if in fact you do miss or have a through and through shot. Would you possibly have to consider multiple shots with frangible ammo? Absolutely. However this is also a consideration with quality hard hitting hollow points. I personally shot a bad guy with two 230 grain federal hollowpoints to center mass and one went straight through and the other got stuck in clothing on the backside. I did not miss the bad guy, but none the less was fortunate that the back drop was a gas station and highway as opposed to my kids room due to the through and through shot. The first round that went straight through did not even phase the guy either. The idea being keep shooting till the threat is gone no matter what you use. There is no magic bullet.

Along with Hutch01's point take care of yourselves and your loved ones and choose what best fits your needs to reach that goal. In some instances it could be something with frangible ammo in a house with concerns for others. If this is the case know it's limits and don't underestimate the resolve of the bad guy to get to you or your loved one. Unfortunately for LE departments the liability factor will always carry some weight, but for everyone personal defense and survival is the ultimate goal, otherwise you may never see what liability there was. Which would be worse?

Last edited by saromans134; 10-10-2005 at 03:19 PM.
  #10  
Old 10-14-2005, 02:15 PM
Fail-Safe Fail-Safe is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 37
Glasers and MagSafe will tear right through sheetrock walls. I didnt believe it at first, so I tested some at a junkyard. They sail clean through. Hence I decided to go ahead and stick with a quality JHP.

As for overpenetration, thats not really a problem when a quality JHP is used.

Handguns dont have enough energy to "dump" into a target in the first place. Afterall, they are just handguns.

When it comes to stopping power, well hell folks, there's just no such thing, especially in handguns.

Do you have the budget to practice with Glasers consistantly? You need atleast 500 rounds to make sure it'll even work in your gun.


Hit your target first time, everytime.
  #11  
Old 10-14-2005, 02:31 PM
guy sajer's Avatar
guy sajer guy sajer is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Ohio
Posts: 10,586
I have yet to see an ammo or handgun manufacturer recommend frangible ammo for defense . I think lack of penetration would be one reason (my unsubstantiated opinion) .

If you need clarification , contact Federal or Winchester and then let us know . We can speculate forever .
__________________
Mitch

Please visit Olde English Outfitters

We remember our friends Chuck , Jim , John , Lou , Roger & Stephen .
  #12  
Old 10-17-2005, 04:30 AM
f.2 f.2 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 178
Research

Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness

Recomended Duty/Self-Defense Service Pistol Loads

As stated earlier, frangable ammo would have very poor penetration.

From reference 1
Quote:
Since the highest handgun velocities generally do not exceed 1400-1500 feet per second (fps) at the muzzle, reliable fragmentation could only be achieved by constructing a bullet so frangible as to eliminate any reasonable penetration. Unfortunately, such a bullet will break up too fast to penetrate to vital organs. The best example is the Glaser Safety Slug, a projectile designed to break up on impact and generate a large but shallow temporary cavity. Fackler, when asked to estimate the survival time of someone shot in the front mid-abdomen with a Glaser slug, responded, "About three days, and the cause of death would be peritonitis."14
Quote:
Kinetic energy does not wound. Temporary cavity does not wound. The much discussed "shock" of bullet impact is a fable and "knock down" power is a myth. The critical element is penetration. The bullet must pass through the large, blood bearing organs and be of sufficient diameter to promote rapid bleeding. Penetration less than 12 inches is too little, and, in the words of two of the participants in the 1987 Wound Ballistics Workshop, "too little penetration will get you killed."42, 43 Given desirable and reliable penetration, the only way to increase bullet effectiveness is to increase the severity of the wound by increasing the size of hole made by the bullet. Any bullet which will not penetrate through vital organs from less than optimal angles is not acceptable. Of those that will penetrate, the edge is always with the bigger bullet.44
  #13  
Old 12-28-2011, 09:47 AM
boo14b2 boo14b2 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1
Don't let JHP hype get ya

Not always of course (there are no givens in shootouts), but I read a study not that long ago that talked about law enforcement having major issues with JHP rounds. The big fuss was because thick clothing such as denim or leather or nylon jackets, things like that, were "clogging" up the actual hole in the hollow point bullet (thus causing it to not expand like it should).

The study also found that JHP in these types of cases were having the exact same ballistics as FMJ rounds, thus defeating the purpose of having hollow points.

All that being said, the faster a bullet moves through a target, the less damage it is going to do, right. Right. (This can clearly be confirmed if you ask anyone that has served in Iraq or Afghanistan). I'm no expert per say but if you ask me, I'd rather my bullet be HEAVY and SLOW than LIGHT and FAST.

The idea being keep shooting till the threat is gone no matter what you use. There is no magic bullet.-Couldn't be more true.
  #14  
Old 12-28-2011, 12:59 PM
DeltaKilo's Avatar
DeltaKilo DeltaKilo is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Coloma, MI
Posts: 11,641
Quote:
Originally Posted by boo14b2 View Post
Not always of course (there are no givens in shootouts), but I read a study not that long ago that talked about law enforcement having major issues with JHP rounds. The big fuss was because thick clothing such as denim or leather or nylon jackets, things like that, were "clogging" up the actual hole in the hollow point bullet (thus causing it to not expand like it should).
This has not been true for 15 years at least. Every recommended duty load posted here and on most every other forum (authored by Doctor Gary Roberts who is both a Law Enforcement Professional/former military and is recognized as an expert in the field of ballistics) have been and continue to be tested against heavy clothing standards and are not considered viable if they cannot pass this test.

The only "passed" bullet that has occasional issues with heavy clothing is the Ranger T-series .45 ACP in standard pressure loads, due to occasional issues with jacket scoring not being deep enough. +P loads of the same bullet do not suffer this issue.

Quote:
The study also found that JHP in these types of cases were having the exact same ballistics as FMJ rounds, thus defeating the purpose of having hollow points.
Not at all. The purpose of having a hollowpoint load is to take advantage of the expansion. If the bullet fails to expand, that does not change the ballistic capabilities of a bullet flying at X FPS with Y mass. The bullet doesn't disappear if it fails to expand.

As to the JHP having "the same ballistics as an FMJ" when they fail to penetrate, well, yes, since they will maintain a ball profile and not create a large, flat meplat that in turn causes larger tissue disruption. However, gel tests are not really conducive to discerning exact differences alone, so just saying the two are comparable in gel is not saying much other than the obvious.

Quote:
All that being said, the faster a bullet moves through a target, the less damage it is going to do, right. Right. (This can clearly be confirmed if you ask anyone that has served in Iraq or Afghanistan). I'm no expert per say but if you ask me, I'd rather my bullet be HEAVY and SLOW than LIGHT and FAST.
Yes and no, and I'm not sure what exactly anyone serving in Iraq or Afghanistan is going to confirm for us on this topic.

I can tell you from having looked at a few thousand wounds now that "the faster a bullet moves through a target, the less damage it is going to do" is completely untrue.

Sparing everyone the gory details of exactly how a gelatinous mass of blood-saturated organ tissues responds to the impact and passage of a bullet, how tissue stretches and expands, and all of that, the basic fact is that the opposite is true.

Rifle projectiles are far more effective, for example, because of their velocity compared to handguns. Above 1900 FPS, temporary cavitation and hydrostatic shock from the bullet cause tissue damage by itself, causing more injury and bleeding than simply because of the passage of the bullet. This is easily observable, and well documented.

On the flip side of that, under 1900 FPS, projectile mass and velocity will show us penetration effects, and from the profile of the bullet we can grasp a rough idea of how well the bullet will damage tissue, but beyond that we really can't say.

We KNOW from medical fact that with handgun projectiles, temporary cavitation does not reach a sufficient severity to do damage to the tissue, leaving only the permanent crush cavity and the corresponding tissue damage as our wounding mechanic. We do not have the ability to measure with any fine detail the exact effects of handgun bullets to tissue beyond our ability to determine through gross study with any certainty.

There are many cases on record of small attackers surviving multiple shots from a .45 ACP, and likewise many cases of large attackers dying because of 9mm, .38, and .357 loads, thus belying the statement that Big and SLOW is preferable to Small and Fast.

Further, you cannot make any qualitative statements beyond gross observations from anecdotal cases because we simply don't have the data to measure with any accuracy what the wounding factors are and separate those from physical condition, psychological condition, and the many many other variables that come from human anatomy and its natural variation from human to human.

Quote:
The idea being keep shooting till the threat is gone no matter what you use. There is no magic bullet.-Couldn't be more true.
Absolutely. There are far too many variables to say with certainty that any one load is a "magic bullet" or a "Death ray", despite some who desire to dub their pet loads as such.

In handgun bullets and loads listed as acceptable both in the links provided by a poster in this thread and in the "Self Defense and Duty Ammo" sticky at the top of this forum, are recommended because they are able to sufficiently penetrate the minimum required 12" of gel even when first presented with barriers, are capable of managing barriers such as heavy clothing, car doors and auto glass, and overall correspond with both a 90+% expansion reliability and exceedingly good results from actually being used against threats in the real world effectively.

There are many many good loads to choose from that show good penetration, good expansion, and do significant trauma to tissue that has been verified through thousands of real world shootings and medical data. Choose a load that works in your gun, and use it. Practice a great deal. There is no trick to this.
__________________
Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum.
http://www.sofrep.com and http://loadoutroom.com -- Check us out on the web!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rwYqGmVvzQ
  #15  
Old 12-28-2011, 01:03 PM
DeltaKilo's Avatar
DeltaKilo DeltaKilo is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Coloma, MI
Posts: 11,641
On the subject of frangibles, they're one of those mythological beasts that everyone believes in and there's no evidence that they actually do what people claim that they do.

Several dozen tests by Law Enforcement have been conducted with glasers and other types of frangible ammunition, and the clear results each time are that while the "trauma" done by the burst of material looks impressive, it's within the first 6" of gel, and does not make it further. Also, when introducing hard barriers then gel, the penetration depth of the material is much less.

Tests on animals and animal tissues with these bullets result in very nasty flesh wounds, but no case, to my knowledge, of lethal or productive stopping events.

My advice is to practice to hit what you aim at, choose a good, well-known, proven bullet and use it.

Wasting money on frangible ammunition is going to simply lead to more trouble than it's worth, and a lotof wasted money.
__________________
Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum.
http://www.sofrep.com and http://loadoutroom.com -- Check us out on the web!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rwYqGmVvzQ
  #16  
Old 12-28-2011, 01:53 PM
gregcheck gregcheck is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Eastern Pa
Posts: 32
To me Frangable = bird shot ( only shotguns are good for shooting bird shot IMHO)
I would also stick with a reliable hollow point , what if the bg is a 300lb porker who has a heavy winter coat on & you need a solid 12 inches of penetration in order to get near anything considered vital, just another side of the coin to consider
G
  #17  
Old 12-29-2011, 01:26 PM
NonPCnraRN NonPCnraRN is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Stockton, CA
Posts: 1,867
To add to what DK said, if a hollowpoint doesn't expand then the diameter of the hollowpoint would act more like a meplat of the same diameter than the round nose of ball ammo. Thus a hollowpoint that doesn't expand is not the same as ball ammo in effectiveness. Flat nosed bullets have been used effectively for both self defense and hunting. That said, I believe a hollow point bullet should be used for SD against humans. After many discussions with DK I have settled on 45 ACP ammo with the Barnes 185 gr DPX bullets.

Even should the bullet be moving so slow as to have no expansion the cavernous hole up front will do more damage than a round nosed bullet. If nothing else think of the unexpanded front end as a cookie cutter. Barnes has done quite a bit of R&D to get the most effective nose cavity for each caliber and velocity range. Nobody has ever accused the 30-30 of being a death ray but the 150 gr Barnes X bullet for the 30-30 plants deer DRT when hit in the heart/lung area. The same technology goes into the entire pistol bullet line. For instance, the hollow point for the 44 spl is different than the hollow point for the 44 mag. Even though the bullets are the same caliber and weight, the velocity ranges are vastly different and the hollow points are designed accordingly. Thank goodness more and more ammo makers such as ASYM are using this bullet type in their ammo.

I didn't intend to have this sound like a testimony for Barnes bullets but I will say that after discussing this topic with DK I have no qualms about defending hearth and home with my stainless Milspec stoked with Corbon or ASYM ammo using the 185 gr 45 ACP Barnes DPX bullet. DK has provided data indicating that this bullet will penetrate deeply with compete expansion of the hollow point. That is something you don't always get with a hollow point, both complete expansion and deep penetration. That is especially true of conventional 185 gr jacketed lead core hollow points.

If faced with a self defense situation I will drill the BG in the DK triangle (for lack of a better name). I will continue firing until the BG is no longer a threat. For more info on what I call the DK triangle, I will let DK chime in with what that aiming point is. It is not the traditional aiming point usually seen on human silhouette targets. While firing as long as the BG is a threat, the LAST thing on my mind is what will happen from bullets penetrating the target or bullets that missed. I realize that misses happen when the SHTF, but that is why we practice, at least that is why I practice. If you are spending even a microsecond thinking about what errant shots can do during a gunfight, that is time that the BG will use to eliminate you. With you eliminated, your loved ones will then be at the mercy of the BG. Not a pleasant thought. Think about that, not missing.
  #18  
Old 12-29-2011, 01:39 PM
nala1911 nala1911 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 513
12 Guage

mrwithasee; The best load for a 12 or 20 ga is either standard #7 1/2 or #8 field loads. This perhaps the best round you can use indoors. Great stopping power and most plaster or drywall with either stop the shot or take most of the speed out of it.
People love to load their shotgun with 00 buck,because that's what police use.
They also have to shoot through car doors, etc.
  #19  
Old 12-29-2011, 01:39 PM
DeltaKilo's Avatar
DeltaKilo DeltaKilo is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Coloma, MI
Posts: 11,641
The "vital zone" is as illustrated:



The nipples on the average human sit to the bottom of the heart/lung area on most humans, and as you can see by this diagram, most of the organs below this zone are vital, but not immediately incapacitative. The only blood-rich organ that can facilitate a quick incapacitation through loss of blood is the liver, and this iwll still take a couple of minutes.

When aiming for proper shot placement, the upper chest/neck area, or the triangle formed by nipples and nose, is the vital zone.
__________________
Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum.
http://www.sofrep.com and http://loadoutroom.com -- Check us out on the web!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rwYqGmVvzQ
  #20  
Old 12-29-2011, 01:40 PM
DeltaKilo's Avatar
DeltaKilo DeltaKilo is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Coloma, MI
Posts: 11,641
Quote:
Originally Posted by nala1911 View Post
mrwithasee; The best load for a 12 or 20 ga is either standard #7 1/2 or #8 field loads. This perhaps the best round you can use indoors. Great stopping power and most plaster or drywall with either stop the shot or take most of the speed out of it.
People love to load their shotgun with 00 buck,because that's what police use.
They also have to shoot through car doors, etc.
I disagree, in that in many many tests and cases involving use of shot instead of buck, much like the problems with frangible ammo, you have far too little penetration to do enough damage to cause incapacitation of a threat. It leaves behind a very nasty flesh wound and not much else.
__________________
Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum.
http://www.sofrep.com and http://loadoutroom.com -- Check us out on the web!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rwYqGmVvzQ
  #21  
Old 12-29-2011, 02:49 PM
hamsters1911 hamsters1911 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCfromNY View Post
I like to mix it up. Twelve shots in magazine. First four frangible next eight JHP.
+1. Running first 5 as Glaser Silver, then JHP in 13 shot clip. HD and CC. For CC, second clip is all JHP.
__________________
SA TRP Operator
SA Loaded 9mm
SA XDM 9mm Compact
Colt .22 1911 Rail

Last edited by hamsters1911; 12-29-2011 at 02:51 PM.
  #22  
Old 12-29-2011, 03:09 PM
NonPCnraRN NonPCnraRN is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Stockton, CA
Posts: 1,867
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaKilo View Post
I disagree, in that in many many tests and cases involving use of shot instead of buck, much like the problems with frangible ammo, you have far too little penetration to do enough damage to cause incapacitation of a threat. It leaves behind a very nasty flesh wound and not much else.
What DK said. A shot to the face would probably blind the BG, but then so would the same shot size used in the .410 Judge revolver. Now you will probably be sued and have to pay for the care of a blind BG for the rest of his life. At close range shotguns will shoot a pattern almost as tight as a single bullet. With that in mind, a 10 shot pistol caliber carbine lever gun loaded with hollowpoints will be better than a shotgun. If frangible ammo is wanted try a 110 gr HP .357, 180 gr 44 mag HP or 185 gr HP from a 16" or longer lever gun. While not truly frangible, those lightweight HPs will really flatten out. I have a Model 92 Puma in 480 Ruger with a 20 inch barrel and it is the length of a yardstick. The "pucker factor" from staring at the .475 cal muzzle is awsome. 10 rounds of 275 gr HPs at 1800 fps at my disposal will handle anything that 8 rounds of 185 gr 45 ACP DPX from my Milspec can't.
  #23  
Old 12-29-2011, 03:12 PM
DeltaKilo's Avatar
DeltaKilo DeltaKilo is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Coloma, MI
Posts: 11,641
Quote:
Originally Posted by hamsters1911 View Post
+1. Running first 5 as Glaser Silver, then JHP in 13 shot clip. HD and CC. For CC, second clip is all JHP.
Given the poor performance of Glaser ammunition when it really counts, this really is, in my opinion based on what I've found in real world shootings, a waste of 5 shots, and more a liability than a benefit.
__________________
Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum.
http://www.sofrep.com and http://loadoutroom.com -- Check us out on the web!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rwYqGmVvzQ
  #24  
Old 12-29-2011, 03:18 PM
40dcoe 40dcoe is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: SC
Posts: 7,168
DK, you are too easy. Getting sucked on a 6 year old thread. My, oh my.

Joe
  #25  
Old 12-29-2011, 03:20 PM
DeltaKilo's Avatar
DeltaKilo DeltaKilo is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Coloma, MI
Posts: 11,641
Quote:
Originally Posted by 40dcoe View Post
DK, you are too easy. Getting sucked on a 6 year old thread. My, oh my.

Joe
Well, merry christmas to you, too, Joe.

Someone brought the zombie thread to life, I felt it was worth being clear and concise in discussing the subject.

Were that I had the abilities, now noticing that this thread is over 6 years old, I would close it.
__________________
Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum.
http://www.sofrep.com and http://loadoutroom.com -- Check us out on the web!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rwYqGmVvzQ
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:55 PM.


NOTICE TO USERS OF THIS SITE: By continuing to use this site, you certify that you have read and agree to abide by the Legal Terms of Use. All information, data, text or other materials ("Content") posted to this site by any users are the sole responsibility of those users. 1911Forum does not guarantee the accuracy, integrity, or quality of such Content.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 2011 1911Forum.com, LLC. All Rights Reserved