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  #1  
Old 06-13-2005, 10:41 AM
ssb_cw ssb_cw is offline
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adjusting 1911 trigger pull




What are the best methods (things to be modified) in lightening the trigger pull on a 1911 style 45 ACP pistol? Someone recommended getting a set of "Arkansas Stones" and polishing the mating surfaces of the sear and hammer. Should a jig be used for this to assure proper angles of contact, etc? Can one adjust the tension of the trigger spring or are springs with different tensions available for purchase? I prefer to do these things myself for the satisfaction of doing it. (maybe the cost of required tools makes it impractical). I would appreciate comments and recommendations....
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  #2  
Old 06-13-2005, 11:29 AM
Stance Stance is offline
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Check section: 1911 'How-To's' and FAQ --> Brownells Benchtalk...
Good article that covers all areas of trigger pull adjustment.

Stance
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  #3  
Old 06-13-2005, 11:37 AM
Chargar Chargar is offline
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There are degrees of "adjusting" the trigger pull on a 1911. Level one is polishing the contact surfaces of the hammer and sear. In this, no metal is removed, but the surfaces have any burrs and high places removed. There is no need to a jig to do this. Brownell sell a nice set of three ceramic gunsmiths stones, and the triangle and square stones work well for this work.

On cheaper or worn pistols it is also a good idea to install new hammer and sear pins, to keep those parts in their proper place. King sells these pins for $3.00 each. They are ground to the max blue print specs for the 1911 and you should not have to modify the frame. Might require a tad of polishing on the pins, but that is a minor thing.

It never hurts to remove any burrs or high points from the disconnector and polish the rear of the trigger where it bears on the sear. Remember we are talking polish here and not remove any metal other than the burrs and high spots.

To go beyond this, you will need to work on changing the sear/hammer contact surfaces. This is where a jig or locater pins will be needed. This is not free hand work, at least not for most folks.

Unless you have a truly sorry pistol with a mish-mash of parts, this is not necessary to obtain a decent trigger pull. I am of the opinion that a 4 to 4.5 lb pull is about right on a 1911 that is not going to be used for formal target shooting. go below 4 lbs. and you have a range only..always pointed in a safe direction..pistol. A pistol that is safe today, might not be a thousand rounds later. You always need a margin for wear. IMHO
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  #4  
Old 06-13-2005, 05:01 PM
Bob Rodgers Bob Rodgers is offline
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"go below 4 lbs. and you have a range only..always pointed in a safe direction..pistol."

Um,that would be a good idea no matter what the trigger pull.
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  #5  
Old 06-13-2005, 10:13 PM
Chargar Chargar is offline
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Bob..of course it is always a good idea to keep any pistol pointed in a safe direction. The point I was trying to make is that pistols with very light trigger pulls should be used only in a controled environment like a range. They are too ticklish for a carry pistol, field pistol, defense pistol, duty pistol or whatever you want to call such a use.

I am curious why you guys are just looking for some way to make somebody else look foolish. You know what I was trying to say, you just wanted to be clever and cute.

I don't mind folks disagreeing, but don't understand such comments as yours. They serve no purpose other than make you look clever or the other fellow look foolish.

No..I am not mad, irked or POed. I am just honest and perhaps folks need to examine their hearts and motives before they hit the submit button. There is too much unkindess and disrespect for others in this world, and I hate to see it creep into boards like this where folks with a common interest try and learn from each other.

Take care and keep em in the X-ring.
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  #6  
Old 06-13-2005, 10:31 PM
joszx67 joszx67 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chargar
Bob..of course it is always a good idea to keep any pistol pointed in a safe direction. The point I was trying to make is that pistols with very light trigger pulls should be used only in a controled environment like a range. They are too ticklish for a carry pistol, field pistol, defense pistol, duty pistol or whatever you want to call such a use.

I am curious why you guys are just looking for some way to make somebody else look foolish. You know what I was trying to say, you just wanted to be clever and cute.

I don't mind folks disagreeing, but don't understand such comments as yours. They serve no purpose other than make you look clever or the other fellow look foolish.

No..I am not mad, irked or POed. I am just honest and perhaps folks need to examine their hearts and motives before they hit the submit button. There is too much unkindess and disrespect for others in this world, and I hate to see it creep into boards like this where folks with a common interest try and learn from each other.

Take care and keep em in the X-ring.
Well, I don't see it like that at all.....I think Bob was having a little fun. Your post is very informative, also, you can never assume someone will always follow "a good idea".

Regards,
Joseph
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  #7  
Old 06-14-2005, 02:57 AM
stiles stiles is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chargar
I am curious why you guys are just looking for some way to make somebody else look foolish. You know what I was trying to say, you just wanted to be clever and cute.

I don't mind folks disagreeing, but don't understand such comments as yours. They serve no purpose other than make you look clever or the other fellow look foolish.
I disagree. I would bet money nothing has been posted to make YOU look foolish, but was posted to discredit something you said that wasn't thought though. It's absurd to insinuate that you should only use proper gun safety if the trigger is under or over 4lbs.

I also disagree with the X.XXX weight is the lowest that should be used for anything but a range queen (I must be a very bad person if this is universally true, especially when it comes to the field, I've carried a pistol into the field with a 1.6 lbs trigger many times, I know I'm bad). Here is how I think about it, if the firearm is mechanically safe and the shooter follows proper shooting protocol your finger will never touch the trigger till you are sure of your target. The weight of a trigger pull DOES NOT MAKE AN UNSAFE SHOOTER SAFE. You own what comes out the business end of your firearms no ifs ands or buts about it. Flame on!

As far as the original question if the trigger feels pretty good but just heavy, I'd suggest getting another sear spring and start adjusting it to your liking. The afore mentioned “How-To” link to the article by Jack Weigand is VERY informative about adjusting the sear spring. If things don't work out just put the original sear spring back in If it takes a lot of pressure to break the sear/hammer and adjusting the sear spring didn't do much of anything then you need to do a proper trigger job. Your primary sear angle needs to be SQUARE to the hammer hooks IN THE FRAME and then your secondary angle needs to be cut to the correct depth.. Yes you need a sear jig and some ½ x ½ x 6 “ stones to do this right (the stones depend on which jig you get I guess). Also if your going to do this yourself be prepared to do this several times and go through 2-3 sears while you are learning.

Yes it is almost a forgone conclusion that having a good pistolsmith do a trigger job for you would be a more cost effective solution.


Jack Weigand's article

Sear jig that I have

CERAMIC STONES

can't find the medium ½ x ½ x 6” India stone that I use to before the ceramic stones.

Last edited by stiles; 06-14-2005 at 03:01 AM.
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  #8  
Old 06-14-2005, 06:32 AM
Chargar Chargar is offline
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Stiles..No flame, but a point of clarification, a point of agreement and a point of disagreement.

I would agree that it is absurd to insinuate that proper safety should be used only with firearms with light trigger pulls. Of course, all firearms should be handled with due regard for safety at all times. I thought I made this clear in my prior post. There is no disagreement on this and I don't think I ever said otherwise. One can only come to the conclusion that I did so, if you take one part of the post and go to seed on it to the exclusion of the rest of the post.

As to the question of how light is too light (trigger pull speaking), I am going to stick to my guns. Light triggers have their place on guns that are used for various types of competition in a controled environment. Super light triggers can be a hazard under real world (not competition) conditions. I have seen some race guns that after some wear became downright hazardous for general use. This is just my opinion based on almost 50 years with the 1911 and I will stick to it.

Now as to whether or not I looked foolish and and should or should not have taken Bob to task over his comment. This is very subjective and has more to do with feeling rather than words. Words have different impact on different people, depending on where you are in the equation. All, I can say for certain, is that I "felt" like somebody was trying to make me appear foolish.

Perhaps that was not Bob's intent. In that case I owe him an apoligy, and he has it if that is the case. However, I "felt" (there is that word again) it was his intention to be cute at my expense. That issue will never be resolved and only Bob knows for certain what was in his mind and heart when he made the comment.

I realize I am a fresh face on this board and there is a tendency for the regulars to rally around one of their own and I understand that. However, I am not a newbie in any way shape or form to the firearms in general and the 1911 in particular. I am 63 years old and have been deeply involved in firearms as long as I can remember and competition since the age of 12. I left regular competition many years ago, due to lack of time to practice enough to keep the fine edge. I shot small bore rifle, Bullseye pistol, high power rifle, and skeet.

The Internet has enlarged our world and enabled us to know and communicate with others who share our intrests in ways not heretofore possible. I believe in basic courtsey and respect, in person and in cyber communication. In fact, these voiceless letters on a screen, make it more difficult to discern the internt of another. Special care must be taken to avoid miscommunication at all levels.

All of the foregoing is just my opinion and I could be wrong on any and all of it. I have been wrong before.

Cheers and keep em in the X-Ring
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  #9  
Old 06-14-2005, 07:17 AM
texlurch texlurch is offline
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Welcome to the board, Chargar!

Back to original question.. there is a very in-depth discussion over on THR, about the hammer-sear relationship. Very good reading and pics, if you have the time! (5 pages last time I looked.. )
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  #10  
Old 06-14-2005, 09:47 AM
medphys3 medphys3 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stiles
Also if your going to do this yourself be prepared to do this several times and go through 2-3 sears while you are learning.
Oh yes, just recently done this. I read and read and read and read and read about this and felt comfortable doing some adjustments on the hammer/sear. Whoops! Time to buy a new hammer/sear. I bought an Ed Brown set w/ the disconnector ($110), because the thumb safety test failed. Put it in and back to normal, but with a harder pull than anticipated. This process alone was more educational that all the reading I had done. I now have a set to practice on before my next attempt at cleaning it up a bit.

Todd
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  #11  
Old 06-14-2005, 04:13 PM
1961MJS 1961MJS is offline
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"go below 4 lbs. and you have a range only..always pointed in a safe direction..pistol."

And go below 0.5 pounds on a .44 Mag and you have a don't move your finger to the trigger until you're aiming at the target gun. The mental act of considering the idea of touching the trigger made the damn gun go off. I only hit the dirt 15 feet in front of me. The owner's brother in law damn near shot his own foot. The owner sold the gun back to the original owner (who had also done the stellar trigger job). I'm hoping he bought new trigger parts and tried again.

Mike
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  #12  
Old 06-14-2005, 09:46 PM
joszx67 joszx67 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssb_cw
What are the best methods (things to be modified) in lightening the trigger pull on a 1911 style 45 ACP pistol? Someone recommended getting a set of "Arkansas Stones" and polishing the mating surfaces of the sear and hammer. Should a jig be used for this to assure proper angles of contact, etc? Can one adjust the tension of the trigger spring or are springs with different tensions available for purchase? I prefer to do these things myself for the satisfaction of doing it. (maybe the cost of required tools makes it impractical). I would appreciate comments and recommendations....
Before you attempt modification of the sear/hammer mating surfaces through stoning, I would go and get a lighter mainspring to see if the trigger/hammer drop feels better to you. It's the cheapest way to see if it makes the trigger feels better to you. If you have a gov't model, the stock MS is 23lbs, I would try a 19lbs to see. It won't lighten the trigger pull but it's really inexpensive to get multiple Mainsprings in various tension and test them out. I tried it on my SW1911 and it felt a lot better than the stock pull.
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  #13  
Old 06-15-2005, 02:22 PM
Doug 29 Doug 29 is offline
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I agree with your remarks about "unnecessary" comments, Chargar! Keep posting and ignore the rude "experts"!
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  #14  
Old 06-16-2005, 12:39 PM
davemuzz davemuzz is offline
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Chargar

Chargar---I think most people who have held or shot a gun with a light trigger pull knew exactely what you were saying.

It is a fundamental understanding to all but the beginners or novice gun hobbiest or shooteres to keep the muzzle in a safe direction and keep the saftey on.

When you have a light trigger, you are well advised to pay even more attention. That means dont chamber until you are on the firing line with the muzzle down range. These light trigger pulls can go off with a gnat landing on them.

Now, how many cute bug jokes can we get here?
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  #15  
Old 06-16-2005, 06:32 PM
Chargar Chargar is offline
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Many years ago in the early 60's, some guys were hunting Whitewing Doves on some land my family owned in South Texas.

One fellow had a shotgun, he was very proud of and worked on the trigger to make it more to his suiting. He leaned the shotgun against the rear fender of his pickup and walked about back to get some shells the bed. In the process he leaned on the tailgate and the shotgun fell, striking the rear bumper and discharging.

The shot charge caught this fellow under the arm almost at the arm pit, from a range of about three feet. the wound was too high to use a turnaquet. We loaded him in the bed of a pickup and I tried to pinch of the artery with my fingers as we drove the ten miles to the hospital. There were no cell phones in those days. He died in the emergency room and I was covered with his blood.

I have never forgot what happens when careless gun handling and "worked over" light triggers come together. I get the shivers when I read on this site about some folks and their 1911s with 1.5lb triggers.

I respect the right of anybody to have any kind of trigger pull they want on their firearms, but I don't want those light pulls on my land or anywhere within one mile of me.
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  #16  
Old 06-16-2005, 08:32 PM
Big crush Big crush is offline
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Quote:
Should a jig be used for this to assure proper angles of contact, etc
Yes a jig should be used as well as a Stereo Microscope (to veiw the angles and surface under magnification). Proper engagement surface AND angles are crucial to trigger group function.

Quote:
Can one adjust the tension of the trigger spring or are springs with different tensions available for purchase?
Yes, but unless the sear and hammer hooks are prepped properly ( there are some "drop in" pre-prepped combos available but most require final fitting) you may only aggrivate an allready exisiting poor engagement thereby increasing the chance of the trigger group failing.
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  #17  
Old 06-16-2005, 11:32 PM
twain twain is offline
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I don't agree, with smiths taking MONTHS to turn around

Twain was, since he is banned, a troll.

Last edited by Jim V; 06-17-2005 at 12:00 PM.
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  #18  
Old 06-17-2005, 12:17 AM
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twain says:

"Smiths just want to keep you in the dark about the fact that they are charging you $150 an hour, to do stuff you can learn in a few hours."

And:

"There normally isn't ANY fitting required at ALL.
So you are just DONATING whatever money you are charged beyond the price of the parts."

(Reference)
http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=118085).



I think this guy should hang out a shingle.
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Last edited by pistolwrench; 06-17-2005 at 12:19 AM.
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  #19  
Old 06-17-2005, 05:36 AM
stiles stiles is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chargar
One fellow had a shotgun, he was very proud of and worked on the trigger to make it more to his suiting. He leaned the shotgun against the rear fender of his pickup and walked about back to get some shells the bed. In the process he leaned on the tailgate and the shotgun fell, striking the rear bumper and discharging.
This is a tragic reality. People who do not follow proper gun safety inadvertently kill other people. Today there are basically two protocols of gun safety, Cooper's 4 rules and the NRA's (condensed) 3 rules, both protocols had 1 rule violated if this tragic example. Cooper's second rule is “Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy!” That doesn't say if you think that you can prop up a shotgun on a tailgate and hope the firearm doesn't change the muzzle attitude based on gravity, inertia and luck whether bad or good! The 1st NRA rule is “Always keep the gun pointed in a safe direction.” and the same counter point can be said in this situation. Not only have both of these “non-negotiable” rules been violated, the man that propped up a loaded shotgun with the safety off on the tailgate of a pickup, he also proceeded to climb into the bed of the truck! Where don't you see HUMAN ERROR before light trigger? I do understand that it is easier to blame an non-living inanimate object instead of a living real person that is your friend, but that doesn't make it the right thing to do especially if it's a life and death situation! There is no guarantee that in the situation that you described that a trigger of a more normal pull weight would have saved your friends life, it's supposition at best. Let me ask you and everybody else this are you willing to bet YOUR LIFE on supposition? There is no, nawww that didn't work out the way I wanted give me my life back, nope you are dead and not coming back! You know I really don't care if I offend anybody when it comes to the subject of gun safety (nor do I care if someone else offends someone else that is laxidazial on this issue either!) I don't care about your “feelings” or anybody “feelings” but I care about the lives that are in jeopardy when someone doesn't follow proper gun safety. If they get offended by my or anybody else's objections, well sucks to be them, and if they have half a brain they will realize that we are talking about life and death and will appreciat the finality of the subject matter and correct their actions without bringing their ego into the matter. Some things are bigger than the individual and in my very strong opinion gun safety is at the top of that list.

I believe in peer pressure! Pressure those that you shoot with and those that shoot around you to follow proper gun safety! And piss on their “feelings” cause “feelings” are temporary but life and death is not! Pressure those that post on Internet forums too :P I can't think of a better way to reach a wider audience either.

So Charger I hope you don't take too much offense to what I have said but to be honest it's of no real consequence to me if you have. I also hope that you realize that statements like “of course it is always a good idea to keep any pistol pointed in a safe direction” is an understatement of extreme proportions because you have whiteness's a friend being mortality wounded because a shotgun wasn't held to the same standard by it's owner. You have also stated “go below 4 lbs. and you have a range only..always pointed in a safe direction..pistol.” which is an absurd statement. This is an conditional statement that implies that a trigger that has a pull weight above 4 pounds doesn't need to be treated with the same respect as a trigger with less than 4 pounds when it come so muzzle attitude, which is utter BS!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pistolwrench
I think this guy should hang out a shingle
If he ever did I know which shop I would patronize and which one I would ignore. (note, my opinion is that Chuck's work is topflight. But my judgment is mostly based on machine work and the aesthetic hand work finishing). I would be shocked if he didn't put as much effort into his hand work as he obviously does into his machine work and finishing prep work. His effort is at least to me selfevident by looking at his work and I have spent over 10 years as a machinist and my job title spanned from quality control manager, to cnc machinest to tool room machinist (almost always doing mill work) to wire (Mitsubishi)EDM operator (mmmm seismic tools manufactured out of titanium) so it's not like it's the first time Ive seen someone work a piece of steel. Ohh I forgot my CO2 laser experience in there somewhere Lots of on line and off line programming in there too.

Lightening a trigger on a 1911 wow it seems like that was never the question in this thread, can the say thread drift :P .
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Old 06-17-2005, 06:36 AM
Jammer Six Jammer Six is offline
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Jammer's Twelve Step Program for Trigger Jobs:

Step one: Buy jigs. Lots of jigs. Consult the internet arm wavers, nay-sayers and whack jobs until you have one recomendation for every jig ever made, then buy one of each. Buy files, stones and lots of stuff. Tell your wife that it's like you're learning a new skill, and that these are tools. If your credit card has a low limit, less than a thousand dollars, be patient, and spend three months accumulating equipment.

Step two: File sear, file hammer. We all did it. You're no different.

Step three: Buy new sear, buy new hammer. We all did this, too. It how you learn the differences between the brands of hammers and sears. Buy one set of each brand. Shouldn't cost more than seven or eight hundred dollars. Soon, you'll be ready to buy the good stuff, but for now, use the cheap stuff.

Step four: Log onto the internet, wave arms, shriek for help. We're the internet generation, and have this huge advantage over the previous generation, who were known, for some obscure reason, as "The Pepsi Generation". Go figure.

Step five: Stone sear, stone hammer. Now you're getting somewhere. Your main objective with this step is to learn how to eliminate all engagement.

Step six: Buy new sear, buy new hammer, buy new jigs. By now, you will have Brownell's site bookmarked, and should be able to buy several jigs and half a dozen sets of sears and hammers in less than twenty minutes.

Step seven: Buy digital camera, learn to operate it, take pictures of ruined hammers and sears. Learn how to set up a web site, and post the pictures to your web site, showing step by step what you did, how you did it, and where it all went horribly wrong.

Step eight: Log back on, point to the pictures, describe problem, ("gun doesn't go boom", or "gun goes boomboomboomboomboomboomboom") shriek for help.

Step nine: stone sear, stone hammer, buy new sear, buy new hammer. You should be able to do this all in one step by now, and you should be able to ruin a hammer and a sear and order their replacements in less than fifteen minutes. At this point, the only delay in the process should be waiting for Brownell's to deliver a new hammer and sear.

Step ten: Throw jigs away. It's best to throw them through something that breaks, like a window or a Ming vase. A reasonable alternative is to buy a torch, melt them all down to a pool of slag, and blow holes in the hardened pool with a large caliber weapon. Someone else's weapon. Yours should be a box of parts in your safe by now.

Step eleven: Develop skill and touch by stoning old, ruined sets of sears and hammers.

Step twelve: Having had a spiritual awakening as a result of these steps, stone sears and hammers to perfect engagement, blindfolded, using your own, personal blend of karma, touch, skill, whispers of magic, The Force, and Far Sight.

There is no other way.

Have fun.
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Old 06-17-2005, 08:55 AM
Bob Rodgers Bob Rodgers is offline
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twain sez, "simple work. Ive done many a 3.5-4 lb trigger job in 3/4 of an hour".

Good grief, I'm way slower than I thought. I spend a minimum of 2 hours, and on one memorable occasion, 2 DAYS, getting a trigger where it needs to be before it leaves the shop. And I've never, not once, dropped parts in a gun without work and gotten the kind of trigger I'm after. If I ever do, you'll all know, just look for a bright star to rise in the east. So twain, how 'bout sending your address so you can do my trigger work for me?

"Smiths just want to keep you in the dark about the fact that they are charging you $150 an hour, to do stuff you can learn in a few hours."

Either you have pistolsmiths confused with car mechanics or I need you to rework my rate sheet.
I'm not trying to keep anyone in the dark about trigger work. I just don't think an open forum on the internet is the right place for ME to give out that kind of advice.

Something to consider, just for grins. An N.D. occurs to you at the range (or anywhere ), seriously injuring another person. You're sued by the victim. You're also scared beyond all belief 'cuz your entire financial life is about to go down the toilet. Your lawyer, being the clever guy that he is, thinks A.D. - the gun just went off, (we've heard THAT a million times) sounds much better than N.D. At this point, so do you. As you tell him your story, you mention that one of your passions is modifying your guns. You also explain (warming to the tale 'cuz you can just begin to see the faintest glimmer of hope) that you have had no formal training - or even in-person casual training, but that you've "learned" stuff on the internet. "Could any of the changes you made to your gun cause the A.D. you suffered," asks the lawyer. Now notice, the N.D. is forever gone, in his mind, and to your relief, in yours as well. "I just did a trigger job," you reply. "Fill in YOUR name here, posted instructions and said how easy it was." "Oh,reeeallly", smiles the shark.

Can't happen? Who'da thunk hot coffee would be hot?
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  #22  
Old 06-17-2005, 09:16 AM
Chargar Chargar is offline
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Stiles ol stud...I never said the things you attribute to me. You parse and pick over words, giving them meaning beyond the common use. I don't disagree with the substance of anything you have said about gun safety and practice and preach the same.

The man in question was not a friend, and I was 100 yards down the road when he did himself in. He was killed by his own foolishness. I consider his foolishness twofold. First was his gun handling and second was jacking with the trigger. He might have survived had he not worked over his trigger. We will never know for certain, as the modified shotgun was not tested against the unmodifed shotgun. What I made of the situation, was what I made of the situation. Take it or leave it. I was there and you were not.

I could have said "by all mean" instead of "of course" and you would not have a problem. I see no future in trying to use words you will not misinterpret. YOu are just one of those folks who like to disagree and look for points of disagreement or something that can be twisted. I will just leave it to the board, to read, digest, understand or not and agree or not.

Tis my least word on this subject. Let's get back to helping each other and quit picking at each other. This is starting to sound like a bunch of old women at a Canasta party. Take care and keep em in the X-Ring. Lets
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Old 06-17-2005, 09:19 AM
jrm jrm is offline
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makes me wonder about my smith he's been doing triggers for 20 years and he tell's me he's still learning.
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Old 06-17-2005, 11:26 AM
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Last edited by pistolwrench; 06-20-2005 at 03:58 AM.
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Old 06-17-2005, 02:00 PM
kevins_garage kevins_garage is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: MI
Posts: 1,866
Quote:
Originally Posted by joszx67
Before you attempt modification of the sear/hammer mating surfaces through stoning, I would go and get a lighter mainspring to see if the trigger/hammer drop feels better to you. It's the cheapest way to see if it makes the trigger feels better to you. If you have a gov't model, the stock MS is 23lbs, I would try a 19lbs to see. It won't lighten the trigger pull but it's really inexpensive to get multiple Mainsprings in various tension and test them out. I tried it on my SW1911 and it felt a lot better than the stock pull.
I second or third or whatever this method (I don't really want to read through the mess of other stuff to make sure which it is). However, you can actually lighten the trigger pull by changing the mainspring from 23+ to 19 or even 17 pounds, because you are reducing the force being applied to the hammer and sear and making it easier to push the sear off the hammer hook (less friction). You may not be able to drop 3-5 pounds off a trigger, but you might get up to a pound or more reduction (I have, but your results may vary). If you can feel a difference, you probably made a difference.
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