Canadian military sidearm?

[Slater]

Anyone know what Canada's current military handgun is?

[Mr. Krebbs]

While I'm not sure if this is still the case, according to world.guns.ru, Canada uses the Para-Ordnance P14-45 as their military sidearm.

Link: http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg59-e.htm

[Mr. Krebbs]

Eh. It looks like I have misintrepreted the world.guns.ru site. It seems this site only represents the firearms manufactured in a particular country.

In any case, Canada decided to standardize their military handguns in the 9mm chambering in 1991. I think that pretty much rules out the notion that they ever used Paras. Currently, they use Browning Hi-Powers. The Canadian-made Inglis clone of the Browning entered service in 1944.

Link: http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/lf/Engl...=31&uSection=2

[GES]

This website http://www.sfu.ca/casr/101-c9mmsig.htm implies that the CF uses Sig P225's but also mentions that it is not a general replacement for the Browning Hi-Power 9mm.

[Onmilo]

Browning Hi-Power designated by English nomenclature L9A1 is still the standard issue Military handgun in Canada.
I have heard persistant and believable rumors that there are still some 3000 unissued Inglis Hi Power pistols on hand.
Sig 225 and 226 pistols are seeing use and I have heard that the HK USP is being evaluated as a possible replacement for the Browning.
RCMP has been using Glock pistols for some time now. HTH

[JCM298]

Slater,

I posted your question here:

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/viewtopic.php?t=76531

John

[PugNut]

The above is mostly correct as far as the curretn issue sidearm for military personnel in Canada. The High Power is still the standard, and yes the Canadian Gov't still has many unissued HP's in storage.

There are SIG 226's issued to some troops in certain branches of the Canadian SpecOp community, but I dont' think the HK will take over the sidearm realm...chances are the 226 will do that instead.

As far as the Royal Canadian Mounted Police using Glocks...this is untrue...they still use a Smith & Wesson semi-auto Model 5946 (double action only) in 9mm.

I believe that the RCMP ERT(SWAT) officers are using Glocks and SIG 226's(as well as the 5946) and I know that undercover officers can opt to use whatever they need to fit the bill.

*edited to add* Some city police services like the Vancouver Police are issued Glocks and I think the Toronto Police are also issued Glocks but they are just that...city police services.

PugNut

"Whenever the Legislators endeavor to take away or destroy the property of the People, or reduce them unto slavery through arbitrary power, they place themselves into a state of war with the People, who thereupon are absolved from any further obedience" John Locke, Second Treatise of Government

[Onmilo]

My bad, I should know better when I base a reply on information from Jane's Defense.
The English must think ALL law enforcement in Canada is RCMP,,,,,

[dsk]

Originally Posted by PugNut

The above is mostly correct as far as the curretn issue sidearm for military personnel in Canada. The High Power is still the standard, and yes the Canadian Gov't still has many unissued HP's in storage.

For all the talk of the US military needing to replace its "old worn out .45's" during the 1980's, the fact remains that a lot of barely-issued pistols were present all the way up to the final deposition of most of the military's inventory. For all the attention we gun owners heap on service pistols, the fact is they are one of the least significant components of a military arsenal. In fact, edged weapons such as bayonets are usually considered more valuable than pistols simply because they have more uses! Therefore it's no wonder the Canadian government still has tons of unissued Inglis HP's in storage. They've never needed them. We gun lovers also like to proclaim that the US kept the M1911A1 for so many years because it was so good, but the truth is there was talk of replacing it even before World War Two. The subject came up again several times after the war, but the .45's saving grace was always that there were so many in inventory, and too little practical need for handguns to justify the cost of replacing them.

[madecov]

Canada has a military ?

[alexnormand]

Originally Posted by madecov

Canada has a military ?

Yeah I was pretty shocked to learn that from this thread too



Hey, we're 10 times less people than the USA... Expect an army at least 10 times smaller

Yep, it's the Browning HP that is issued to foot soldiers. I know a bunch of them, and they pretty much all would prefer a weapon like a SIG or GLOCK. Most of them state that they find exposed hammers and manual safeties too bothering for practical use in the rough field, and thus favor the GLOCK. They want somthing light, VERY simple, and agressive in it's design. After I put a ruck sack, water supply, load vest with all 10 full 30 rnds AR-15 mags, pistol belt, gas mask, etc etc, I REALLY understood why even 10oz can make a difference. These guys are LOADED like MOFOS

People are never happy

Alex.

[tinfinger]

I had a book on the Walther P38 that, if I recall correctly, stated that Canada had some quantities of P38's issued. Can anybody confirm that?

[armd_recce]

Originally Posted by Onmilo

Browning Hi-Power designated by English nomenclature L9A1

Ack! Those Brits... I'd like to point out to them it is a Canadian made pistol, most certainly not designated the L9A1. The L9A1 is Belgian or British made for starters...

"No 2 Mk I*" is the Canuck designation for the current service pistol, and all of them were made in 1944 and 1945 by Inglis Canada in Toronto.

I had a book on the Walther P38 that, if I recall correctly, stated that Canada had some quantities of P38's issued. Can anybody confirm that?

The P-38 was never issued by the Canadian military. Not even a small few.

[michael t]

Originally Posted by madecov

Canada has a military ?

Sure do. They also sold cookies for a while ,but the Girl Scouts kicked their butt.

[1saxman]

Whatever, but it sure would be sweet if a U.S. importer got hold of those nice new Inglis HPs and offered them for sale here when Canada goes with the Sig! With the Canadian anti-gun mentality, I doubt this will ever happen, but it's nice to wish.

[nemesis]

Hey, we're 10 times less people than the USA... Expect an army at least 10 times smaller

Regretfully, the total strength of your armed forces (50,000) is less than the National Guard strength for East Podunk, Kentucky. Your armed forces would have to number about 311,000 just to achieve parity for being "10 times smaller".

[John 242]

Originally Posted by dsk

For all the talk of the US military needing to replace its "old worn out .45's" during the 1980's, the fact remains that a lot of barely-issued pistols were present all the way up to the final deposition of most of the military's inventory. For all the attention we gun owners heap on service pistols, the fact is they are one of the least significant components of a military arsenal. In fact, edged weapons such as bayonets are usually considered more valuable than pistols simply because they have more uses! Therefore it's no wonder the Canadian government still has tons of unissued Inglis HP's in storage. They've never needed them. We gun lovers also like to proclaim that the US kept the M1911A1 for so many years because it was so good, but the truth is there was talk of replacing it even before World War Two. The subject came up again several times after the war, but the .45's saving grace was always that there were so many in inventory, and too little practical need for handguns to justify the cost of replacing them.

I agree that military issue pistols have little significance on the battlefield as a whole. But on that note, although their use is very limited, the military service pistol still serves a niche. Examples that comes to mind are armored vehicle crewmembers, officers, and troops that due to their MOS (jobs that they perform) are not normaly issued rifles.
A case can be made that few of those who carry pistols will ever use them in combat, so therefore the pistol has low priority. I would agree, but that same point can also be made for rifles and other small arms as well. How many soldiers in a Brigade actually fire thier rifes in combat? 5%? 10%? Less? More?
For those that do use pistols in combat, it is important that they be issued an effective and reliable weapon. The 1911 was both.
You know your 1911 history much better than I, but I would like to think the the US Gov. kept the 1911 around because it's potential replacements offered no real advantage over the 1911 design and because of the huge inventory of pistols on hand. Call me a romantic.

Despite the fact that we live in a world where smart bombs are guided by satalites, and RPVs patrol the skys, the US Army has rediscovered the need for effective small arms and training in their use.
Although pistols are more of a specialty weapon, they are still important. Especially for the user who relies on one.

[jaysouth]

Originally Posted by madecov

Canada has a military ?

Don't have a clue what they are like now, but in the 60s I spend some time around Princess Pats(Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry) in Germany. They were up there with British Guardsmen and much more hardcore than U.S. battalions that were 70% draftees.

They have some troops in Afganistan.

[NaturalSelector]

Originally Posted by John 242

Despite the fact that we live in a world where smart bombs are guided by satalites, and RPVs patrol the skys, the US Army has rediscovered the need for effective small arms and training in their use.
Although pistols are more of a specialty weapon, they are still important. Especially for the user who relies on one.

No doubt about that brother....

[Mopars&eagles]

Originally Posted by John 242

I agree that military issue pistols have little significance on the battlefield as a whole. But on that note, although their use is very limited, the military service pistol still serves a niche. Examples that comes to mind are armored vehicle crewmembers, officers, and troops that due to their MOS (jobs that they perform) are not normaly issued rifles.
A case can be made that few of those who carry pistols will ever use them in combat, so therefore the pistol has low priority.

I think this nails it. There are countless positions in the armed forces where a rifle is impracticle or too cumbersome. Can you imagine trying to shoot a rifle at a BG that has jumped on your vehicle while you drive? Or a tank mechanic having to do repairs in a hot zone needs to be armed, but it would be difficult to fire an M-4 while crouched in the engine bay.

Anyway, if it is worthing bringing a gun, it's worth bringing two! I would certainly rather have a sidearm to back up the battlerifle.

[NaturalSelector]

Originally Posted by nemesis

Regretfully, the total strength of your armed forces (50,000) is less than the National Guard strength for East Podunk, Kentucky. Your armed forces would have to number about 311,000 just to achieve parity for being "10 times smaller".

Actually it is more like 65,000 with a reserve of 20,000... Not sure what this has to do with the military issued sidearm of their military but hey... Lets play..

[robertbank]

From reading comments from friends in the military there remains a fairly good supply of Inglis pistol still in stores. The C. Army continues to use the Inglis until they are used up and then likely will transition overtime to another 9MM. Sig seems to be the front runner as it performed the best in US trials I am told and passed C. Army testing. It will be a 9MM.

JDF - 2 our special commando outfit use what ever they want I am told and have no idea what they carry. Hell most of us were not even aware of their existence until A-stan came along.
All that said I have a line on a virtually NIB Inglis from a friend up here. Going to shoot it this week end. How do you dicker with a guy when you are drooling with eyes wide open....?

[tech45]

Canada has an army ---- WITH GUNS????????

[JCM298]

Canada has been an ally in two World Wars, Korea, and many smaller conflicts and have always been on our side, unless you go back to the War of 1812. Unless I'm mistaken, the border that separates us is the longest undefended border in the world.

Mean-spirited comments about Canada's military are not really needed in this thread.

John

[shane45-1911]

The question has been answered, and I fully agree that further comments are unwarranted.

I know and work with members of the CF that can (and have) kicked ass with some of the best military forces of the free world.

I realize that the comments were light-hearted, but my grandfather who lost an arm on Juno beach on a summer's day in June 1944 as a member of the world-renowned Queen's own Rifles may not think it is so funny.

Neither would the the Canadian sniper team who now hold the record for the longest confirmed sniper kill, surpassing U.S. Marine Gunnery Sgt. Carlos Hathcock's previous record.