Show us your Favorite Para.

[mzdybel]

Here are two of my paras

[AZRaptor]

My first, only and favorite Para is my Black Watch Companion I just picked up a few hours ago.

[PLINKER45]

Here Is My Newest Para. Sorry For The Bad Pic.

[Chuck S]

Take the pistol outdoors. No flash.

My latest. Old stock Para Companion. Minor tweaks: XS24/7 tritium sights, Gunsite low thumb safety, thin AlumaGrips, MetalForm magazine, Ed Brown Hardcore extractor (doesn't show), and Colt's serrated mainspring housing (why does Para checker these?). This pistol is cocked and locked.



-- Chuck

[SMMAssociates]

Chuck:

Would you please stop posting that picture.

I can't afford another Para.

I really want that one....

Actually, I've got a 4" Kimber set up similarly; generic checkered arched MSH (the frame's "Officer's" length), but with the small-ball XS and Pachmayr "Signature" grips. An LDA would have been a ton more fun, but it'll do the job.

Regards,

[Chuck S]

I have a couple of shorty M1911s set up generally the same way:

XS24/7 tritium sights (Novak dot over bar on the Officer ACP).
Gunsite Low Thumb Safety.
Thin AlumaGrips (BBQ woodies on the parkerized Officer ACP for the photo).
Serrated mainspring housing (checkered replaced since the photo of the Ultra).
Short trigger on the single actions.









I toyed with getting the same pistol as AZ Raptor's and installing the external hammer and tritium sights, but I found this one in like-new condition. Serial is CC205x which I expect is early production.

I believe the hammer and beavertail grip safety can be added to the current production Para Companion (or AZR's model). Hopefully GW can comment on this and the availability of parts.

All three pistols are cocked and locked (Cooper's Condition 1). The Para Companion looks less scary to the folks at the convenience store!

Sorry, the devil made me post the Companion photo again. Can ya tell I like that pistol?

-- Chuck

[carlos64030]

Originally Posted by Chuck S

I have a couple of shorty M1911s set up generally the same way:

XS24/7 tritium sights (Novak dot over bar on the Officer ACP).
Gunsite Low Thumb Safety.
Thin AlumaGrips (BBQ woodies on the parkerized Officer ACP for the photo).
Serrated mainspring housing (checkered replaced since the photo of the Ultra).
Short trigger on the single actions.









I toyed with getting the same pistol as AZ Raptor's and installing the external hammer and tritium sights, but I found this one in like-new condition. Serial is CC205x which I expect is early production.

I believe the hammer and beavertail grip safety can be added to the current production Para Companion (or AZR's model). Hopefully GW can comment on this and the availability of parts.

All three pistols are cocked and locked (Cooper's Condition 1). The Para Companion looks less scary to the folks at the convenience store!

Sorry, the devil made me post the Companion photo again. Can ya tell I like that pistol?

-- Chuck

Nice lookin' pistols! You know....it would be nice if "Para" would make their "LDA" pistols with a decocker/thumb safety, that way the law enforcement/security guys would be able to carry a 1911 on duty.

[My_Name]

Originally Posted by carlos64030

Nice lookin' pistols! You know....it would be nice if "Para" would make their "LDA" pistols with a decocker/thumb safety, that way the law enforcement/security guys would be able to carry a 1911 on duty.

Huh? Why would you need a decocker? The guns are DAO. They decock themselves as the slide returns to battery.

[SMMAssociates]

Originally Posted by My_Name

Huh? Why would you need a decocker? The guns are DAO. They decock themselves as the slide returns to battery.

Actually, they don't.... The hammer returns to it's "rest" position, against the rear of the slide, but the goodies inside don't change. The mainspring is still loaded, waiting for the sear to trip and transfer it's power into the hammer.

The hammer won't likely fire the gun at that point - I think that it has to move back so that more than heavy pressure is applied to the firing pin (which probably won't cause it to move far enough to activate the primer).

If you've ever tried to swap a mainspring housing, what would be the hammer tang in "normal" 1911's still has to be dealt with as if it was an ordinary 1911, too. I forget if the gun has to be "cocked" to remove the frame mounted safety lever.

Very short answer - it looks decocked....

Actually unloading the mainspring might be a useful trick, but I'm not sure it's possible within the confines of the (admittedly magic) Para innards. The key here is that they've essentially split the normal 1911 hammer into two parts. The part that works with the mainspring and rides on the sear, and the part that is pulled back to cock the weapon and then accepts the mainspring's power when the sear is tripped. A couple of levers tie 'em together - one to draw back the hammer when you depress the trigger (and to trip the sear), and one to cock the mainspring if the slide or hammer are moved rearwards.

This is why the "DA" trigger pull is so light. Except for the actual letoff area, the trigger is pulling against only a couple pounds of spring, purely to move the hammer back to it's "ready to fire" position. At that point you have about 0.010" of five pounds or so, and the sear will trip about midway through that. It's more or less equivalent to any old SA trigger there, except that the "reset" point, as the trigger is released after firing, is quite a ways farther out than most SA's would be.

One of these days I'm going to get up the courage to strip the frame of my Tac-Four, just to see what's involved, but the instructions I have say something like "while re-assembling, just wiggle things around until they seem to fit." This could take a while....

Regards,

[SMMAssociates]

Chuck:

AARGH....

Me and Sammy are heading for Cleveland to punish you for posting those pics .

(Sammy's a 170 pound dog in a 17# body. My daughter, who I've written out of my will, dropped him off on me last January. He looks like a Jack Russell, but I think he think's he's a pit bull.... )

Yo in deep trouble, son....

(They are nice looking guns. I don't like "full" hammers, though, for Para LDAs, because you can't use a "cocked & locked" strap holster. 'Course the vestigal ones look a little silly, but wth, my Tac-Four is green already....)

Regards,

[My_Name]

Originally Posted by SMMAssociates

Actually, they don't.... The hammer returns to it's "rest" position, against the rear of the slide, but the goodies inside don't change. The mainspring is still loaded, waiting for the sear to trip and transfer it's power into the hammer.

The hammer won't likely fire the gun at that point - I think that it has to move back so that more than heavy pressure is applied to the firing pin (which probably won't cause it to move far enough to activate the primer).

If you've ever tried to swap a mainspring housing, what would be the hammer tang in "normal" 1911's still has to be dealt with as if it was an ordinary 1911, too. I forget if the gun has to be "cocked" to remove the frame mounted safety lever.

Very short answer - it looks decocked....

Actually unloading the mainspring might be a useful trick, but I'm not sure it's possible within the confines of the (admittedly magic) Para innards. The key here is that they've essentially split the normal 1911 hammer into two parts. The part that works with the mainspring and rides on the sear, and the part that is pulled back to cock the weapon and then accepts the mainspring's power when the sear is tripped. A couple of levers tie 'em together - one to draw back the hammer when you depress the trigger (and to trip the sear), and one to cock the mainspring if the slide or hammer are moved rearwards.

This is why the "DA" trigger pull is so light. Except for the actual letoff area, the trigger is pulling against only a couple pounds of spring, purely to move the hammer back to it's "ready to fire" position. At that point you have about 0.010" of five pounds or so, and the sear will trip about midway through that. It's more or less equivalent to any old SA trigger there, except that the "reset" point, as the trigger is released after firing, is quite a ways farther out than most SA's would be.

One of these days I'm going to get up the courage to strip the frame of my Tac-Four, just to see what's involved, but the instructions I have say something like "while re-assembling, just wiggle things around until they seem to fit." This could take a while....

Regards,

But isn't that how it has to be carried to get off the first shot? Every pull is the same poundage/travel right? So, like a Glock if you pull the trigger on an empty chamber, the gun's internals are at rest, but you cannot fire the weapon w/o pulling the slide slightly to the rear to re-set everything. At least that is how the one I dry-fired at the shop the other day operated.

Maybe I'm just extra dense today, but I still don't see how a decocker would do anything useful on an LDA.

[SMMAssociates]

My_Name:

Yup.... Glock style if I understand it properly.

The gun won't fire if the mainspring isn't cocked. If you've got a vestigal hammer model (most of the newer ones), it's impossible to cock the hammer manually without working the slide. (Actually, that's not precisely true - but it's not fun.) "Regular" hammer models could be cocked. SO, the vestigal hammer models can't be carried with a round in the chamber because working the slide will eject it.... Unloading the mainspring isn't a lot of advantage here....

I can't see any point in a decocker with a vestigal hammer model. Guess it could be used if you have a regular hammer and don't mind cocking the gun before the first shot, but I don't see why.

The Para LDA is normally cocked (even though the hammer's down) when a round is chambered. Unless you're working on it, it's really never decocked unless you've just fired the last round in a magazine, or you removed the magazine, cleared the chamber, checked again, and then "dry fired" the gun.

(The external hammer on the newer models is merely an accident of the form factor of the 1911 design.)

Regards,

[robertbank]

Stu I thought the hammer on the new guns still hits the firing pin when the trigger is pulled. Is this not the case? In that regard the hammer still full fills it's original purpose.

[Chuck S]

The hammer shape on my Para Companion is cosmetic. My CCW had a little flat hammer which was hard to see when at rest. The hammer does indeed strike the firing pin and the firing pin strikes the primer. These are NOT striker fired.

Para Ordnance has convinced several Police Departments that these are DAO pistols and use by policemen was likely the reason for the design in the first place.

Hard to define the LDA. I feel comfortable carrying a cocked and locked M1911. I feel more comfortable carring the LDA version. Have to pull the trigger on either model for them to fire. The Colt's and Para's pictured have firing pin interlocks deactivated by the trigger at full pull, the Kimber's works off the grip safety. I prefer the Colt's system which I understand Para pays or paid royalities -- correct me if you have different information. I see no reason to remove these interlocks.

I have other non-logical behavior too. Seven (7) round magazines in any of the above pistols is my preference, but eight (8) rounders in Government model size pistols I don't trust. MetalForms are my preferred mag for both sizes, both with fixed floor plates long enough to project beyond the frame.

Come to Tusco (near Dover/New Philly) this Sunday. Fun Shoot. Lots of pistol and rifle targets. Bring your BARs and SMGs too!

[img]OK, I won't do it.[/img]

-- Chuck

[robertbank]

Seems to me they are single action pistols with a twist. Nice guns though, never shot one. IF I bought an LDA tp go along with the other 17 handguns in the safe my wife would have my berries for book ends. LOL Still about to buy a Model 10 Smith.

Stay Safe

[SMMAssociates]

Originally Posted by robertbank

Stu I thought the hammer on the new guns still hits the firing pin when the trigger is pulled. Is this not the case? In that regard the hammer still full fills it's original purpose.

Bob:

Correct....

It's just teensy now....

It doesn't look as agressive as an SA in Condition One either, which may be an advantage.

BTW, I bought an S&W M10HB for concealed carry about 1970. Sounds insane, but I'm kinda big, and in those days a little printing wouldn't have bothered anybody. I could even carry in bars then.... Truth is that I bought a 6" M19 for "uniform" and decided that my little snubby .38 had to go 'cause I couldn't hit anything with it anyway. I quit doing uniform work about 1972, but carried the M10 for a while until switching to an S&W M39 and PPK/S a few years later, depending on how much I needed to conceal.

Regards,

Stu.

[SMMAssociates]

Originally Posted by Chuck S

The hammer shape on my Para Companion is cosmetic. My CCW had a little flat hammer which was hard to see when at rest. The hammer does indeed strike the firing pin and the firing pin strikes the primer. These are NOT striker fired.

Para Ordnance has convinced several Police Departments that these are DAO pistols and use by policemen was likely the reason for the design in the first place.

Sneaky....

I don't want to say a word, but they're not DAO's.... OTOH, they don't look like SA's, and the overall effect is that they work like a DAO, if with a somewhat lighter trigger.

Hard to define the LDA. I feel comfortable carrying a cocked and locked M1911. I feel more comfortable carring the LDA version. Have to pull the trigger on either model for them to fire.

The LDA makes for a very light trigger pull (between four and five pounds) that still fudges the DAO, and is somewhat better at the "startle factor".... In short, with an ordinary SA, you have about 0.010" of trigger travel and somewhere midway in that it'll trip the sear. The LDA has a much longer (if very light) travel area before it moves into the hot 0.010". Little twitches & such may not be long enough, and I think it's a little easier to realize that you are pulling the trigger if startled, and maybe stop.

IAC, the sheeple won't notice that the gun's in Condition One....

(When I first got involved with LE - rent-a-cop, magnums and hollow points were Politically Incorrect. A Condition One gun would have gotten you run out of town on a rail. Nowadays nobody much minds hollow points - overpenetration seems to be important, and magnums seem to be appreciated, but you still may have issues with that hammer. Concealed carry folks can be less concerned, unless somebody sees the thing....)

The Colt's and Para's pictured have firing pin interlocks deactivated by the trigger at full pull, the Kimber's works off the grip safety. I prefer the Colt's system which I understand Para pays or paid royalities -- correct me if you have different information. I see no reason to remove these interlocks.

Major can of worms - the Colt system seems to me to be less of an issue. It does impinge on the trigger action, but it just seems to be a little better. I like the fact that the whole thing is "straight line" - the lever that comes off the trigger pushes the safety plunger straight up and out of the way.

The Schwartz system (Joe wouldn't let me take his new Kimber apart!) comes off the grip safety, so it doesn't impinge on the trigger, but the way the little pin works with the plunger in the slide bothers me a little, and there's another part up there (or at least it looks like that - the plunger could be "L" shaped) that sort of makes for an off-center movement when it's activated. That bothers me. The "break the safety" issue is kind of interesting, too - a ham-fisted guy trying to shove the slide back on the frame could behead the little pin coming from the grip safety and the gun's no longer operative. I'm not sure you'd even notice. Not squeezing the grip safety while doing it is the answer. But, while working with Joe's gun Wednesday night I think I managed to almost bash the pin a couple times, and I knew all about the problem, and Joe was watching me....

I have other non-logical behavior too. Seven (7) round magazines in any of the above pistols is my preference, but eight (8) rounders in Government model size pistols I don't trust. MetalForms are my preferred mag for both sizes, both with fixed floor plates long enough to project beyond the frame.

I prefer seven round magazines too.... My Kimber is an "Officer's" length grip frame, which would be six rounds, but they use those followers that flatten a bit and allow for seven rounds. They work fine for some reason.... IAC, the floor plate really should project past the frame. Really doesn't matter when you're ejecting if everything's OK, but it can avoid some interesting injuries when you're trying to slam one home.... (Joe's Springfield likes to bite both of us. The mags are actually OK, but the mag well's a little too good at covering things up. Translation - it bites....)

Come to Tusco (near Dover/New Philly) this Sunday. Fun Shoot. Lots of pistol and rifle targets. Bring your BARs and SMGs too!

I don't think I can make it Sunday, but I sure know the area. The former day job owned a plant over by the Dover dam, and I was down there every once in a while for years. Espenschieds, downtown, was a great place to eat, too. Hard to spell, though....

Regards,

[Chuck S]

The LDA is as much double action only as the Glock. Neither is a true double action, of course but the same police administrator logic applies to both.

-- Chuck

[My_Name]

Originally Posted by Chuck S

The LDA is as much double action only as the Glock. Neither is a true double action, of course but the same police administrator logic applies to both.

-- Chuck

Beat me to it.

Mods: perhaps we should break this off into an "LDA: is it DAO?" type of thread. We have completely hijacked this Para picture thread.

[bluedsteel]

I just bought my first Para after firing it at the range adjacent to the gun shop...awesome performer...shoots better than my full size Springfield 1911...

bluedsteel

[BananaSlug]

Originally Posted by SMMAssociates

SO, the vestigal hammer models can't be carried with a round in the chamber because working the slide will eject it.... Unloading the mainspring isn't a lot of advantage here....

This confuses me...So the newer LDA's cannot be carried with a round in the chamber? How are they intended to be carried?

[robertbank]

Of course they can. The only difference between the older models and the newer ones is the power extractor and the shape of the hammer. The guns function the same. To carry the gun in a ready to fire mode you rack the slide and engage the safety. To fire you disengage the safety and pull the very light trigger. Gun goes bang.

Stay Safe.

[SMMAssociates]

BananaSlug:

Sorry.... One of my famous run-on sentences....

The LDA's can't be carried with a round in the chamber in an "uncocked" state because there's no way to "drop the hammer" (actually, unload the sear 'cause the hammer's already down) when the chamber is loaded, without discharging the weapon.

IOW, the act of chambering a round cocks the "system" and there's no way to de-cock it without firing it....

If you need to re-strike and you've got a "regular" hammer, you can draw it back and try again. Vestigal hammer models are almost impossible to get a hold on to do this (and I'm not sure about the safety aspects), so we generally say it's "not possible."

(I've heard that this can damage something, but I don't see how. AFAIK, the thing cocks by slamming the hammer back like any 1911. The hammer just falls to rest against the slide instead of remaining back.)

Better?

Regards,

[BananaSlug]

Thanks, that makes more sense now.

[Chuck S]

The LDA is a "true" double action because the action of the trigger cocks the hammer which is at rest just behind the firing pin (hammer down). Unless the hammer is pulled all the way pack it lacks the momentum needed to hit the firing pin hard enough to detonate the cartridge primer.

If the sear trips (or fails) while the hammer is in the normal forward position it won't fire the pistol even though it will smack the firing pin. Doesn't hit hard enough.

What makes the trigger pull so marvelous is the mainspring is already cocked and it takes very little pressure to pull the hammer back to the trip point.

-- Chuck