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Why did the SC shooter have to reload?

9K views 90 replies 48 participants last post by  sixguncowboy 
#1 ·
I am not trying to make light of the horrible tragedy inflicted by the POS SC shooter, but there is a question that has lingered. From the first reports that I heard survivors were quoted as saying the shooter reloaded five times. It was later reported that the shooter used a .45acp firearm. Even when I heard these first reports it struck me as strange that someone would need to reload a semi-auto handgun 5 times to murder 9 people and wound a 10th.

Since then pictures of the shooter have been released of the shooter holding the pistol believed to have been used. That gun appears to have been a Glock 41. The 41's smallest magazine holds 10 rounds. That would mean that shooter fired between 40 to 50 rounds during the atrocity. It has also been reported that the shooter placed the gun to his own head, in an appearant suicide attempt, only to have the gun strike on an empty chamber( even though it should have locked back on an empty chamber).

Are these reports wrong? Has anyone else heard different reports?

While I don't wish to give this disgusting animal anymore notoriety than necessary, I was hoping to get some others input.
 
#2 ·
The version I heard said the victims mentioned the 5 reloads. I believe these were non-firearm versed folks, and may have confused a malfunction clearing with a reload. I'm guessing the shooter had little or no training, and not much practice, so he may have experienced malfunctions from improper grip, limp wristing etc... Then when he racked the slide to clear the fault, the victims thought it was a reload.

All the above is per guess work. I have not heard or saw anything definitive. Probably will not be known until the trial.
 
#4 ·
More than likely he was a poor shot combined with the victims running for cover, hiding under things etc, and he had to shoot at each onemore than once. I very much doubt victims 2-10 just sat there in a circle waiting for their turn to get shot cleanly in the back of the head.
if he "only" averaged 3 shots at each victim thats already 30 shots. Given that 9 died, the victims were most likely HIT more than once each - so between misses and hits I wouldn't at all surprised if he fired at LEAST 40-50 shots - or even a full 65 shots of 5 fully loaded standard capacity magazines.

And he may not have loaded his magazines to capacity.

And the witness may have miscounted.
 
#70 ·
That is determinable by forensics, count the brass and magazines. involving the death penalty
Not that it is likely to be published.
That will become public information when introduced as evidense during the assasin's trial, unless he enters a guilty plea on all charges. He's already entered a not guilty plea at his arraignment. In some states a guilty plea cannot be entered to charges that could result in a death penalty.
 
#10 ·
The first problem I have with this accounting is that it's not been verified that a "Witness" actually ever said it in the first place.

The media is notorious for getting it wrong.

What they don't know, they make up. What they don't agree with, they twist. What they don't find out on their own, they copy from others, often simply adding to the unsubstantiated comments with their own biased comments added in.

So I don't put any faith in anything published in the media without three verifiable independent sources supporting it.

As was stated above, we'll likely never know the real story as the ballistics and evidence will never be accurately reported to the public.
 
#14 · (Edited)
A minor point, and not aimed at you specifically, of course - I just wish we could get that philosophy hammered into those boneheads that being gun-free makes them easy meat.

It's very frustrating to read about deaths so easily-prevented... the best way to stop a mass-shooting is to shoot back, damnit.
 
#15 ·
Because most shooters are worst than the Police in real life. In real life it's not like a slow fire range. Look at the Fort Hood shooting where a Military trained officer opened fire on 100 unarmed soldiers. 13 killed, 214 rounds expended. 177 round not expended and a .357 Mag not used. Based on movies and t.v. there should have been 100 dead.
 
#39 · (Edited)
It is not uncommon for pastors to carry. And many churches have parishioners who carry. Christians are not supposed to suffer at the hands of violent offenders who would take their lives. Good Christians see to their own security and the security of others, in the face of evil.



Statistic I learned in a class is that about 70% of rounds fired by trained police officers in a "shootout" do not strike the target. Imagine how many rounds an average civilian shooter would land, with good effect, in an actual gunfight.

This is why I believe in high capacity when it comes to carry guns. In a defense situation, your first task is to not BE shot... that means you're moving off the X and creating more space, if you're smart. And if you're also shooting at an assailant the same time... well, that's going to be just a little different than carefully aligning each shot when you're relaxing at "the range" on a Saturday afternoon. I wouldn't expect more than 2 or 3 rounds, out of 10 fired, to actually do their job well... on one perpetrator. Make that two or three perps and you'll wish for a hi-cap pistol in your hand.

Of course, different scenario entirely in the SC tragedy. We will probably never really know just how that all played out.
 
#55 ·
#21 ·
I carry in MY church. I told the pastor I was carrying, I didnt ask. If he said he didnt want me in his church any more I would have obliged him. I obliged the bank when they complained. But Pastor responded that he didnt have a problem with it just wanted it to be quiet. I then quoted scripture to him and suggested that if all hell broke loose, "Get thee behind me" OK, OK, Jesus was calling Peter Satan in that quote, but I meant it with humor and he received it that way. I am not sure he doesnt carry. He is an ex F4 Pilot from Viet Nam, I am sure he was carrying a 1911 in those days.
 
#27 ·
Remind me to never go to your church then.

Church is for prayer to God.

Commandment #6:
Thou shalt not kill.

You carrying a gun into a Christian Church, is definitely Un Christian of you.
And mis-using a Biblical quote is just ignorant on your part. LOL.

Here is how I see this:

There has been a concerted effort by "pro gun" people, such as the NRA, to convince everyone that when a crime happens, it is somehow the victim's fault. This gets expressed by mistakenly criticizing "gun free zones".

And blaming the victims is as wrong as you can get. Please think on this, and consider stopping your practise of victim blaming, and being Un Christian.

Lastly, I believe that the Christian Faith has been hijacked by assholes who want to use it as a shield for pushing a Fascist agenda. And by fascist I mean, pushing ignorance over knowledge (the creationism and anti-vaccine things), rejecting completely "the other" (anti immigrants, brown skinned people), blaming "the other" for everything wrong in their lives (Mexicans are why America is doing badly, and other fallacies).

If you think I am wrong, at least first read a bit about this Evaneglical movement:

http://www.amazon.com/American-Fasc...pebp=1435887389743&perid=1QB7R16GG45B52XK0ZR1

For background : My family, my Polish family, fought the nazis in WWII, IN POLAND, for the entire war. They saw first hand what Fascism can do, when it successfully brainwashes enough people.

If you think I'm "crazy" for comparing these American fascist movements to the old Nazis, read this, and get an eye full:

http://www.amazon.com/Will-Bear-Wit...pebp=1435887500589&perid=1H84ZK7Q5TG3M2B19H1S

What the American Evangelicals (called Fundamentalists today), have been doing, is precisely the same sort of thing that the brownshirts did in Germany : Grab hold of the poor working class, also whites in this case, and brainwash the heck out of them with a constant bombardment of propaganda aimed at achieving total control over them.

In the Nazi case, they chose to blame the Jews. Here in AMerica, you hear these same sorts of "thinkings", except now they blame blacks and immigrants. Nothing could be further from the truth.

This is their most "pure" group, which is brainwashing our poor white working class today:

The John Birch Society.
 
#23 ·
I thought the same thing about the multiple reloads, but the more I thought it out the more I could visualize what happened. There was one report of the murderer standing over one of his victim and placing multiple rounds into him. Add to that misses while under stress and his desire to probably want to overkill. This is a crazy sick mind at work, that has no reason to his actions. I am not aware of a lot of range time or practice by any reports on his behavior.
 
#26 ·
I think as usual the news stories are trumped up so much to make the scene seem even worse than it was. The reloading 5 times IMO is a bunch of fabricated BS by someone that doesn't even understand what is involved in reloading a semi-auto. To the ignorant people he sat down in a pew and hand reloaded the gun 5 times. As long as it takes to reload a mag by hand I could have easily run out of his point of aim. The BS meter is pegged on this one. Point blank and he used 40-50 rounds to kill 9 people? BS!
Everything about this event tried to cover every possible base to make it usable in every manor for greater gun control.
Of course the kid had to be portrayed as a racist or he wouldn't have chosen a black church. This black church above many had a history of racial violence. The pastor was a senator and was totally anti gun. The church has a no guns posted. The kid had black friends and drinking buddies?
This whole scene couldn't have had the plot written any better. This whole scene stinks to high curtain. Within hours Obummer had a speech ready for national viewing? But Benghazi had to wait till his political money grab was completed? Wake up people...it's called divide and conquer.
 
#28 ·
oldtimer4440

I am a Christian, and attend church on a regular basis. I also carry in church. I let my Pastor know that I'm packing, and he is perfectly alright with it, even joking that if a shooter comes in my first responsibility is to protect my spiritual leader. If he were not comfortable with me being armed, I would find a church that was comfortable with me being armed. I do not feel that it is sacrilege for me to carry a weapon in a place of worship, as I can see no earthly reason that would be served by a deranged person killing Christians. I do not go to church with the express desire to kill someone, but if I allowed an attack with out doing something about it because I was unarmed, I would not be able to live with myself if I survived, and with my personality I would not survive because it is in my DNA to act. Not saying I'm a hero, just that I react to violence with counter measures without having to think about it.

As to my bank, I have been in there hundreds of times, and no one knows I'm packing. If they knew, and complained, I would find another bank that did not have problems with my right to defend myself. I do make sure that I do not wear dark glasses and a hat as requested, which I feel is common sense.
 
#29 ·
In my church, we have a minimum of 3 people carrying during regular services and at least 1 at any gathering of 7 or more people for other times. We have pastoral approval to carry after completing a 4 day tactical pistol course and simple background check by church's insurance company. Between our monthly training, dry fire exercises and regular range time I don't think there would have been more than one victim. We train to eliminate the "command" portion of the aggressor.
 
#30 ·
A number of years ago, I regularly attended a church that would routinely have skeet shoots at picnics.

Can't see what would be wrong with a Responsible Member of any Church helping to defend his "Neighbors".
 
#42 ·
Agree, premise of OPs question kinda implies the subject of this thread is rational (and a proficient marksmen for that matter). We know that he isn't rational, and I doubt he is a proficient marksman.

The filth-bag doesn't deserve any rationalization of any kind, MHO.
C.A.
 
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