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Compensators. Practical or just cool

29K views 46 replies 31 participants last post by  NavyVet1959 
#1 ·
I'll be honest I am no stranger to compensating for something, but being a new 1911 owner, I was looking at some cool accessories and saw these compensators. I have an colt officers model and extended the magwell due to I'm 6'8" and hands don't fit great on a compact and thought a compensator might make up for the look of a longer handle. I do not compete and do not plan on competing I only shoot 1-2 times monthly and carry for work. So is a compensator actual practical or just cool looking.
Second question. I LOVE ghost ring sights. I am not great with standard open sights. Do 1911s have aftermarket ghost ring sights and are they hard to put on. Thanks guys.
 
#2 · (Edited)
If your gun is chambered in .45 ACP it won't really develop enough pressure to make an actual compensator do much. A bushing comp doesn't have very much effect even with higher pressure either (which is what I think you are describing). For a comp to be effective you need a cartridge that runs at higher pressures, like .38 Super, .40 S&W or 10mm. An effective compensator will also have an expansion chamber - which most bushing comps do not. I would advise you to spend your money on ammo and range time. Bushing comps are kind of like putting a wing on the rear of a front wheel drive Honda - because it looks cool. Ghost ring sights are cool but IMO don't offer any huge advantage over standard notch and post sights on a handgun and they stick up too high and snag on holsters and clothing. They work extremely well on a scattergun though.
 
#4 ·
Are compensators practical? Yes. They significantly reduce muzzle rise and felt recoil.

Are they cool? That is a matter of opinion.

Do they work on a .45 ACP? Yes.

Do they require a high pressure cartridge to work? No.

Do bushing compensators work? Yes. How effectively they work depends on their design. A bushing compensator with baffle plates can be quite effective, even on a .45 ACP. Designs that are simply ports in a tube have a small effect. Anything that redirects gas upward produces a counter force via Newtonian physics. The more gas they deflect, the more effectively they work.

The reason that compensators appear to have less effect on a .45 is because they shoot such heavy bullets (185 - 230 grain) compared to the smaller calibers. If you shoot light bullets in a .45 the compensator works extremely well because they require lots of gunpowder which provides lots of gas.

If you handload, the way to get the most from any compensator and bullet weight is to use a gunpowder that requires a large charge weight. More gunpowder means more gas which means more gas pressure at the muzzle.

Empirical data to back up my statements can be found in the articles below.

http://www.shootingtimes.com/ballistics/compensators-pressure-gas/

http://www.shootingtimes.com/gunsmithing/reducing-recoil-traditional-vs-bushing-compensators/

http://www.shootingtimes.com/reloading/power-factor-recoil-bullet-weight-compensators/

You might also find this article of interest:

http://www.shootingtimes.com/gunsmithing/recoil-reduction-ports-vs-compensator/

I've shot a variety of compensators on a variety of pistols and calibers, including a .45 and they can work very well, consistent with the empirical data in the articles I posted links to.

My advice is to ignore opinions of people who have not empirically tested compensators and rely on actual test results.
 
#6 ·
I'll be honest I am no stranger to compensating for something, but being a new 1911 owner, I was looking at some cool accessories and saw these compensators. I have an colt officers model and extended the magwell due to I'm 6'8" and hands don't fit great on a compact and thought a compensator might make up for the look of a longer handle. I do not compete and do not plan on competing I only shoot 1-2 times monthly and carry for work. So is a compensator actual practical or just cool looking.
Second question. I LOVE ghost ring sights. I am not great with standard open sights. Do 1911s have aftermarket ghost ring sights and are they hard to put on. Thanks guys.
The bolded part concerns me more than sights or compensators.
 
#8 ·
As was pointed out, technically speaking a compensator on a .45 will work. Will it be a significant enough effect to warrant the extra length? Only if you handload with very light bullets and big charges of slow burning powder. Neither of which is the best self defense setup in a .45

The challenge with bushing comps is the area around the bullet in front (needed to clear the barrel) is usually just as big as the port on top. Which means any gas you create for the comp will be split between reducing muzzle flip and contributing to recoil. That's fine for a range toy, since you're also dropping bullet weight way down and bullet weight is the dominant part of recoil force.

The low pressure part really comes in as a limit on how much powder you can load, which limits the total volume of gas.
 
#9 ·
Peep sights work well on rifles where the shooter's eye is close to the rear sight; I'm not convinced of their worth when at arm's length (ie. on a handgun), particularly when someone came up with a gimmicky "cool name" such as "ghost ring" for them.
 
#14 ·
Peep sights are best on a rifle, mounted as far back as possible. I shot smallbore competition in college using excellent receiver sights and learned to really like them. I have a few lever actions with tang mounted peeps and find them to be very accurate, I did not have much luck with one on a hard kicking 45-70 lever action, but conversely like it on a heavy Browning 1885 BPCR. I do have one mounted on a Swedish 96 Mauser, replacing the standard rear leaf sight, so it is quite a distance from my eye. At almost 70 years old, I find it to be much better than the leaf with tiny notch rear sight and still very accurate, so I would think a peep rear on a handgun could be ok although I have never tried one.
 
#10 ·
My comp gun (which was admittedly outdated- we did full profile, through barrel 1911 comps) worked great with 185 power factor 200 grain H&G 68's. I also shot it with 230 grain ball and it shot nearly identically- just a touch more snap. .45 ACP works well with a comp.

You can build a "carry-comp" too. I built a really nice Officer's ACP that had: A cut-back Commander slide with a Clark full-profile comp, which gave it a barrel length of 5". That thing probably worked better than the 6.5" guns we normally built; it cycled really quickly. I shot it, and against it, in competition. It was also fully checkered, had an Ed Brown beavertail and mag week, Clark barrel, and Wichita sights.

Now, that said is the extra expense worth it for a carry gun? It was way, way more than doubled the price of the gun. The el-cheapo in me says no, while the gadget-junkie says yes.

Here's the deal- if you aren't already really fast, or practicing regularly against a timer (and some better shooters) you probably won't gain anything from a comp. You have to be able to shoot fast enough to make it matter.
 
#11 ·
Just my opinion, I would not own a compensator that attached to the barrel in any way, for me it throws the balance of the gun off and makes it harder for me to get consistent groups.

Now Magna Porting through the slide and barrel is the way to go for me. It does not change the balance or the feel of the gun and it adds no wait. I think it actually works better than a compensated gun.
 
#16 · (Edited)
+1 on superdude's input. He knows his stuff on compensators.

A compensator that's integral with the barrel is a far better bet than an add-on comp. Especially with 45acp, an add-on comp may do very little positive for you ... some, but not much, depending on the design and the ammo. When someone states that a comp does no good on 45acp guns, this is usually the circumstance they've experienced.

I have two compensated 1911-style pistols ... Wilson Carry Comp and Wilson Hunter (10mm). The comp and the barrel on these guns are an integral one-piece-of-steel unit.

With the 10mm Hunter, the compensator yields more benefit, but I firmly state that there's also a benefit with the 45acp Carry Comp. The latter is one of my regular carry guns, so I believe in its performance. A 160gr Barnes all-copper bullet driven by a solid +P load will better use the comp's effects than a slow-moving 230gr with a typical not-so-stout compact load.

I'm into function, fit, finish, and quality rather than "cool", so I cannot comment on appearance. A comp does increase the guns length, which is not the greatest thing for a carry gun. I use a full size holster for the Carry Comp.
 
#17 ·
Superdude pretty much covered everything there is to say about comps. I don't notice a massive difference with mine shooting 230 grain but 185 runs very well but might as well be a different caliber all together for how differently it runs. The .38 super I just got has about the recoil that my ruger mark II target .22 has with it's compensator, I'm continually impressed with that pistol.
Both of those guns are pretty impractical from a carry perspective though, I go with a ported barrel for that.

As someone that runs "ghost ring" sights, yes. I have Caspian's on mine and they took some getting used to at first but I like them better than the standard notched rear sights. I find I have an easier time picking up and focusing on the front sight.
 
#18 ·
I just read somewhere that a cop lost an eye during a raid after he was hit by particles coming out of another swat dudes glock porting. A med sized department next to me wants to dump their ported glocks after too many ruined shirts and ruined night vision Don't get me wrong I love the idea of a comped pistol for carry but the lemon just isn't worth the squeeze.
 
#19 ·
One has to know his/her usage environment or what he/she is likely to encounter. For "contact" SD shooting, a comped gun surely is not the best choice.
 
#20 ·
I've been shooting compensated handguns since around 1991, and I've shot them in 9x19, 9x21, 9x23, .38 Super/Supercomp, 10mm, and .45acp. I've shot pretty much every variation of compensator you can think of...bushing comps, comps without much in the way of expansion chambers, with multiple expansion chambers, and most every variation you can think of...side ports, popple holes, hybrid ports, etc, etc.

To say a compensator works "extremely well" in .45acp is a bit of an exaggeration, in my opinion, but I guess it's a subjective thing. Yes, they make some difference, but mostly with ammo that you would never carry on the street. Further, I can make a bigger difference in muzzle flip with grip technique than you can get with any compensator. People doubt that until I prove it in person.

The thing most folks miss about a compensated pistol is that they reduce straight back recoil (which is why you have to use lighter recoil springs) because the first thing the gas hits is the first vertical baffle....that pushes the barrel forward, which pushes the rest of the gun forward. The more gas volume you have, and the higher the pressure that gas is at, the better the compensator will work (all other things being equal).

With all of that said, I wouldn't bother with a compensated carry gun. It makes the gun hard er to carry, it can cause muzzle flash issues (from minor to nearly blinding with some ammo), causes issues if you have to fire from a position of retention (blast yourself in the face with all the gas and unburned powder) and really isn't going to help you do anything better in a defensive situation.

If you're trying to shoot a plate rack, or table of bowling pins, or a USPSA/IPSC stage as fast as possible, they can make a clear difference, but the reality is most folks aren't shooting fast enough to realize the compensator's advantage (other than straight back recoil reduction). In other words, if you're shooting .25s splits (time between shots) a compensator isn't helping you. If you're shooting .15s splits, a comp can help some, but it's still a fairly small part of the equation.
 
#38 ·
i think they're "cool"
but a bad idea for a carry or home defense pistol
Bart clearly pointed out the reasons why




I

With all of that said, I wouldn't bother with a compensated carry gun. It makes the gun hard er to carry, it can cause muzzle flash issues (from minor to nearly blinding with some ammo), causes issues if you have to fire from a position of retention (blast yourself in the face with all the gas and unburned powder) and really isn't going to help you do anything better in a defensive situation.

they tell me most violent altercations happen real fast and very close distances.
Many of them at contact distance .

we can choose when and where to use lethal force, but we can't choose the circumstances ..and the likelihood of shooting from retention to get a goon off you is very real..as likely as not

comps are bad idea for carry/home defense ..imHo

..L.T.A.
 
#21 · (Edited)
Some of the good points you bring up Bart (+1) are exactly why my Carry Comp is just one of my Carry guns. Many times, I do not think it is the best carry choice. But there are also environments where it would shine (if needed) with the lightweight solid copper bullet and +P loads I use. These are all matters a person should really think about ... a comped gun should only be carried by someone who knows it well... and this is another reason why I would suggest that an individual should focus on function rather than "looks".
 
#22 ·
Well Security, you have been given a lot of great information. Whether or not you decide to go with the Comp or not will be your final decision. As far as the Ghost ring sight, if you are having problems with aligning the top of your rear sight with the top of your front sight like I did, the Ghost ring is easy to install and it does assist with aligning your sights, especially if your eye sight is becoming weakened. Above all, if it makes you happy, do everything....
 
#26 ·
Compensators and Peep sights

As for compensators I have one on my stainless 6" longslide 1911 and though it does not make a huge difference it does reduce felt recoil enough that my torn up wrists don't get as sore running a couple hundred rounds through the gun, and I can get on target a bit faster and shoot a bit more accurately than I can with the same gun basically with a titanium frame and a bull barrel.
As for peep sights I use them because I have found that the older you get the better peep sights work, I have the diamond type on one gun and the round type on the other, for shooting out to 50 yards the round sights work best, but for shooting at longer ranges I like the diamond sightd because I can use them for consistant ranging out to about 90 to 100 yards.
Just observations of a worn out old combat vet.
GRIZZ
 
#27 ·
Don't think you can put a comp on a officer 1911 unless it has a bushing which most don't that I'm aware of or have a threaded barrel which means it would need to be threaded. I have a bushing comp on my RIA government 1911 and the gun cycles fine with it but as far as compensating muzzle blast I can't really tell a difference. Plus adding a comp makes takedown slightly harder because you'll need something to depress the spring plug, where is without using one you can use your fingers.
 
#28 ·
To clarify, I have a bushing comp as a range toy. It doesn't do much of anything with factory ammo, maybe a very small amount with +P 185 grain ammo. But even then, not much.

It does start changing the character of things handloading 185 grain bullets with Power Pistol powder, but actual recoil reduction is due to a lighter bullet more than anything else.
 
#29 ·
Bushing comps are very inefficient and generally a waste of money. A comp works by redirecting gas upwards to counteract muzzle flip and does this by having baffles that are a close fit to the exiting bullet to keep the gas from flowing out around the bullet. Bushing comps have to have a bore big enough to allow the barrel to pass through during cycling of the gun and do not have the close fitting bore in the baffles that is needed to redirect the gas.
 
#30 ·
Year before last, I bought a custom gun, that had been set up with a compensated Bar-Sto barrel. It's very accurate, but I've never been a fan of all the weight up front, and the balance is too far forward. With all the weight, I can't tell if the lessened muzzle jump is barrel, or compensator related.

Fortunately, it also came with the original barrel which has a very tight-fitting standard barrel and bushing, evidently done by the original gunsmith. I shoot with this set up, and the gun is a tack driver.
 
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