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Modern Manners or the Woman on Point

4K views 43 replies 23 participants last post by  10millman 
#1 · (Edited)
I get some odd looks sometimes because I go through the door first, before my wife, when entering or leaving a building. Now, I've been as cranky in my day about guys walking with their women on the street side. You know, just bad manners. It is still old school manners to hold the door and let the lady go first.

However, there are reasons those manners have changed for me a bit these days. I go first through the doors to check for danger signals or to be first in line if there is something out there, or in there as the case may be. Also, mud in large amounts and out of control horse carriages are less likely on the street today than when men kept to the street side. Today real threats are more likely to come from door way and ally ways. It would seem more genuine nowadays for the man to walk close to the potential danger areas. I still want to shout "How much you selling yer woman for?" when I see a couple walking with the girl to the street side. Old habits die hard.

Curious, how many of you out there have revamped your "manners" to take in modern threats. Anyone else take point going into and out of a place even if it gets you a dirty look or two?
 
#2 ·
That would be me also. Especially if it's someplace we haven't been before, businesses that are tucked away or sketchy neighborhoods, Craigslist purchases (meeting at their place ). My honey always makes sure I'm first at the door. BTW I dont mind, I've passed on a few meetings because of a certain gut feeling I had when we arrived.

Gotta have eyes behind your head all the time.
 
#6 ·
Not me. I would consider myself paranoid.
I sometimes wonder where some of you live, shop, or work that such behavior is necessary in your mind.

I do not think that someone is waiting on the street for my wife to walk out so they can shoot or attack her or me. WOW! What a way to live.

Regards,
Jerry
 
#14 ·
Not me. I would consider myself paranoid.
I sometimes wonder where some of you live, shop, or work that such behavior is necessary in your mind.
I do not think that someone is waiting on the street for my wife to walk out so they can shoot or attack her or me. WOW! What a way to live.

Regards,
Jerry
Oh, how about the mall, church, kiddie day care, hospitial, supermarket, liquor store, school, drieway etc. etc.

:)
 
#7 · (Edited)
I go first through the doors to check for danger signals or to be first in line if there is something out there, or in there as the case may be.
I lived in South Africa for most of my life - and that is exactly what the males of black tribesmen do (eg Zulu, Xhosa, etc), and for the same reasons. In the Western mindset, it's polite to let the lady enter first - in theirs, they can't believe how rude/crazy we are to let the lady walk in first.

I do a modified one - I hold the door, peek in and let my wife through if I'm happy, following right at her 4 o'clock.
 
#8 ·
It does somewhat depend on the location. My wife likes it when I open the door for her when on dates or whatever...formal settings if you will. I just keep my head on a swivel and check rooms when we walk into them.
 
#9 ·
If I can see through the door, . . . window, . . . and see that the place looks OK, . . . I'm the suave gentleman (grocery, restaurant, church, etc.).

If I can't, . . . call me a bum, . . . I'm going in first.

Very rarely do I let my wife go into our house first if we have been away together, . . . I have my weapon, . . . she rarely has hers if we go out together (can't get her to carry when her protector is with her :) ).

Guess I'm a middle of the road in this thread.

May God bless,
Dwight
 
#10 · (Edited)
If it opens inward then it's obvious open and do a fast sweep with the eyes. If it opens outward then I walk in first, do the sweep and hold the door open from the inside with my left arm (leaves my right hand open in case I have to draw, also keeps concealed easier). Although my back is starting to go and this really agitates it now.


On a side note I hold the door open for almost all women that I come across and you should see some of their reactions. Once in a while I get a reaction of them that they think that I just performed some amazing miracle. Sad that manors and decency aren't a part of living anymore.

For other parts of the world type stuff, in middle eastern countries the person that is to receive the most respect will enter last. That's why at times you will see middle eastern leaders fighting and practically shoving each other through doorways because they want to be last.
 
#11 ·
If I can see through the door I open it and let her go first. If not I'm going first. I also walk on the building side while were walking. Never knew why but just seemed right. I wouldn't say were paraniod, Just very aware of our surroundings and making sure were not walking into something. In my town I live in only 25,000 people, we have had 5 gas stations robbed and a woman got her car hijacked with kids in it all within 2 weeks. Not to mention all the house break-ins. Guess the economic situation is finally catching up around her. So much for good ole small town USA.
 
#12 ·
I still open the door for other women and most anybody. ;) You don't know what's in there, let them go first. :D

Seriously, I do open doors for others.

As to where we live and work. How many people expected to get gunned down in a church or in any nice, rural town? Being situationally aware isn't paranoid, just aware. My daddy taught me to sit with my back to the wall and and eye on the entries and exits. Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you. :biglaugh:

Actually, I live in a small town outside SA (which has its share of problems) and we don't have much problem. However, we're very near San Antonio and on a major highway so we get a lot of travel. We've been fortunate so far, but there are other small towns just beyond us that have had gang activity for years. It only takes one time. Most people that carry concealed don't carry for everyday activity either. They carry for that one time out of years of carry. Not to mention all threats are not two legged. While not a big issue, it is quite possible to walk out a door and meet up with a rabid dog, coyote, or skunk, or the occasional rattlesnake curled up by the door. Lady next door had one on her back step last year and a friend in a subdivision outside of town had a big one on her back deck when she walked out.

My wife actually likes that I go first. We always comment if I don't.
 
#13 ·
I have always let the woman go first,as taught.But this thread brings up some very valid reasons for not doing so.Not that I want to go through life so paranoid that I am afraid to leave the house,but better to be prepared and not need to be,than walk into a bad situation unprepared.That is why I joined,to see things from other perspectives and learn.Thanks guys
 
#19 ·
OK, consider this.

Many when we talk about the probabilities of something happening say that they do not play the odds, but want to be ready in case something happens.

So if you in general, knew that if your wife went to the mall alone she had a 99% chance of being attacked would you go with her no matter what you had to give up? This assumes she is going anyway so don't argue that she could not go.

If the chances were 80% that she would be attacked would you go with her no matter what you had to stop or give up?

So you cannot know, but if you don't play the odds then they might be 100% on this particular day.
My point is that many say they want to be prepared because it could happen, and the odds are not zero.
But if you always think that way then if you love your wife you will go with her always because you cannot know if this is the day.

You may only be that concerned when it does not keep you from doing something else, and only go out the door first if it is convenient for you to go with her.

So if you don't want to play the odds, but instead be ready in any circumstance how can you not always go with your wife (if you are not at work) because this might be the day a crazy attempts to shoot up the mall?

BTW Master Gunner, I am beginning to think all our wives are smarter than us. I always thought I was smarter than my wife, but she was always at least three steps ahead of me. I couldn't figure that out since I was smarter. I am beginning to get the message. I always knew she was smart "for a girl." But maybe smarter than me.:confused::confused:
:D:D

Regards,
Jerry
 
#20 ·
Jerry, I posted this for another member here, you fit the parameters also:

You sir are a nice person; I like nice people.

However I am not a nice person.

We need folks like you around.

Unfortunately we also need some folks like me.

1SG Kelly

:)
 
#21 · (Edited)
I go first through the doors to check for danger signals or to be first in line if there is something out there, or in there as the case may be.
your wife lets you use that excuse? :biglaugh:

I guess it depends on where i am going. Returning home and everything seems normal i go second, going outside the bank after withdrawing cash, i go first. etc.. etc..

I guess it depens a lot on the place and current enviorment, i try to learn as much as i can about crimes and M.O.'s in my neighbourhood and the places i frequent. I usually dont wander into dangerous zones if i can avoid it.
 
#22 ·
Old school here. I open the door everywhere... home, car, stores,....everywhere. It's just how I was raised. I see the safety factor of entering first, but If I find us somewhere that it becomes a concern, I don't need to be there that bad. There is no good reason to introduce yourself into a situation when you have the ability to leave. Also, if I get to the point where I am really worrying about being assaulted at Church or the kids school, I am more likely to die of a stressed induced heart attack than a bullet. Just my opinion.
 
#26 ·
I grew up in a small New England town, Town Hall, Police and Fire Stations all on Main St., quiet, nothing ever happens here. Well I got a job at the Police Station in the small town where "nothing ever happens". Let's just say that everything that happens in the " Big Crime Ridden City " also happens here. Granted not every night, it is still a great place to raise a family, but stuff still happens here, it's just never reported to the news.

Providence Rhode Island, about 40 minutes away, I believe 24 Homocides in '09. It's on the 6 O'clock News almost every other night. Drive-byes and near misses aren't counted. That's alot of crime going on. Most of the time it stays in the bad neighborhoods. But it can and does spill over. Robberies also make the news regularly. Just like any other capital city. ( Banks, gas stations, liquor stores, mini marts. Ever stop at one? )

I guess it's like playing the lottery, it has to happen to someone. I'm most likely making it sound like a Mad Maxx kind of place, and it's not. I still live in a sheltered, quiet, small NE town. But still, 24 murders in a year, that's alot to me.

If I'm not out earning a living, I'm spending time with my best friend, my girlfriend. The GSD has the duty when I'm at work. I have the duty when we're out. I do drop everything to go to the mall with her or where ever. I just feel better being there.

I could get in a car wreck on my way to work, we could get in a wreck together, "you just don't know". Sometimes bad things happen to good people. I like nice people, we know a lot of nice people. But, every now and then a NitWit crawls out from under a rock without an appointment and has to be dealt with. You just don't know.

If I'm called paranoid, ok, I can deal with that. Concealed carry means I look like any other "Mark" on the street. I just perfer to stop, look and listen to my surroundings, in the hope of avoiding the avoidable.

But any way, after all that, your actual mileage may vary, objects in the mirror may appear closer, ect... You still have to decide what is right for you and pretty much don't worry what other people think about it.

Choose Wisely Grasshopper.
 
#30 ·
I am curious if anyone here has ever heard of a woman getting shot who went out the door first? I know I have not. Of course, if you are a gang banger it might very well happen, but average folks leaving a restaurant or such?

I wonder what it would cost to install bullet proof glass in the front of my house? After all, someone might do a drive by.

Regards,
Jerry
 
#31 · (Edited)
I haven't Jerry. But I've pulled a car with entire family still in it out of the lake. Husband, Wife two little kids. It was a business ownership dispute between partners owning legitimate (read no drugs, guns) in Russia circa early 90's. It was a company picnic families and kids that family was left behind. Those same partners pulled an RPK and 40mm grenades on cops when they came over their house to arrest them. We've had to drive an APC thru the front door to end it. Investigation into the company business did not reveal anything ilicit, they were moderately profitable and evaded paying taxes just like everybody else back in that day. I.e. There was no organized crime connection. Just few guys who'd gone off the deep end.

About three months or so ago a woman walking with a stroller near a park about half a mile from my house was almost forcibly abducted by a man posing as a police officer. I live in a relatively safe middle class neighborhood.

About 4 years ago a hippy looking young couple targeted me and my wife for a robbery in that same park. The only reason that I'm typing this now is because I saw them as being out of place saw a knife hidden in guy's sleeve and made sure that he saw a holstered weapon on my hip. And oh yeah it was really helpful that my wife was holding on to my left hand and not my right :)

Really bad things happen to really good people and while they are relatively rare they still happen. Once you see the aftermath of some of those things you get a new appreciation for life.

Some people learn from others mistakes i.e. listening to the news reading relevant literature others hear same stuff and think that it can never happen to them. Well.. it can and when it does it's too late.

I don't advocate leaving in fear but I do take precautions.
 
#32 ·
depends on the situation for me, if i know im going somewhere rough i prefer to do so alone or with a buddy for back up and leave the gf somewhere safe, if it cannot be avoided and i have to go in some door, she stays in the truck with the engine running while i check it out, if its good she comes in, if i dont like it i come back out and we leave.

now, that is very rare. day to day i open doors for her and other people as well, maybe its old-fashioned or whatever, im fairly young but i was taught to always open doors for people especially women or elderly, guess its part of growing up a cowboy and eagle scout lol.
 
#34 ·
At the risk of being caught in crossfire here... :). Gentlemen let's try to keep this thread free of sarcasm and personal attacks. It is suppose to be about exchange of ideas and personal opinions not about loaded questions and the responses they might generate.
 
#35 ·
Don't worry. I wasn't trying to be sarcastic. I was genuine in my questions and concerns. Sorry and apologies if it sounded that way. Not intended as a personal attack.
 
#36 ·
Hi Matrosov,

But those incidents are very different from exiting a dept store or restaurant. Parks and lakes are sometimes isolated enough so that criminals can feel secure enough to attack people.

If using such places I have always been cautious, or when using rest stops, but it is not the same as being on a public street at a business or mall. I would like to know if such crimes take place when leaving a place of business in places other than known crime sections.
Obviously one can do as he will, but I refuse to live my life worrying about every door I exit or that there is a BG around every corner. Naturally shootings can and do occur when one is somehow connected to gangs, but not orherwise under the circumatances of the question posed by this thread.

Regards,
Jerry
 
#37 ·
Again it sounds more paranoid on paper than it really is in real life. It's not very different from muscle memory if you will. 600 exact repititions and your body does 601st repetition on autopilot. It is easier to behave/act a certain way all the time that way your brain will do it on autopilot regardless of the surroundings all the time. If I have to do different things in different surroundings and in differrent situations I'd have to think all the time and you're are right I'll drive myself bonkers. But most of us don't think about the things we do like going first through the door or opening door or checking if anybody is following us, that is we don't think about it until we have to write it down :). Like my driving the car example we can do gazzilion different things and have a conversation at the same time. Habbit and repitition is a beatiful thing.

I don't think about world end scenarios all the time or my wife getting raped, but because of my military experiences I do look for trip wires and helicopters when driving a car I do it totally subconciously just became a second nature at some point :). LEO's on this forum probably go around their non LEO business with family in tow checking faces against wanted criminals taking note of people's hands etc. Not because they are fearful but because the've done it for so long it became a habbit.

It is important to differentiate fear from alertness. Fear robs you of ability to act. Alertness and observation actually opens up a totally new world for you.
 
#38 ·
I'm a girl, and I don't care if a man opens the door for me, etc. Sometimes I open it for them! (Of course, I CCW, so a man looking for danger and protecting me is not an issue.)

FYI - The reason men walk on the street side of the sidewalk is that people used to throw their chamber pots out of windows, (YUCK!), and the men would "take the hit" instead of the lady. :biglaugh: http://www.trivia-library.com/a/why-men-walk-on-the-outside-of-a-woman.htm
 
#40 ·
I'm a girl, and I don't care if a man opens the door for me, etc. Sometimes I open it for them! (Of course, I CCW, so a man looking for danger and protecting me is not an issue.)
Cool. You take point! :biglaugh: Seriously, glad you take responsibility for your own safety. Good on ya.

let the wife go first?? yep! she makes great cover!! just kidding Clint
There you go. Causing me to have fantasies about my 2nd ex and going into dangerous places. Looking back I'd have happily opened the doors of hell for her. No, wait. She ran the place and I barely escaped. <Shiver> Now I'm just having flashbacks and panic attacks. :(
 
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