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What do ultra high-end 1911s offer (Cabot, Wilson, etc.)

7K views 85 replies 54 participants last post by  Denver1911 
#1 ·
What do these $8,000-$10,000 1911s offer over those half the price? Can you really double quality? Can you improve at all?
 
#2 ·
A lot has been written on this question already. Search should yield some good information. Try Google too as it's a common question on many gun forums.

I'm not aware of too many $8K+ Wilsons. Thought $5K was about their upper end. Anyway, what you're paying for is high quality parts, hand fitting and service. All three are generally better than your run of the mill production guns. Whether or not they are worth the price difference, however, is completely subjective. Some people are perfectly happy with a Craftsman wrench. Others are willing to pay for Snap On. In the end, only you can determine if the price is justified.
 
#3 ·
Beauty, art, craftsmanship and pride of ownership is it. If your current favorite 1911 is one hundred percent reliable and shoots better than you can, there is not much to improve on. I have several 1911's and my old Wilson CQB that cost me $1485 many years ago is very accurate and one hundred percent reliable. It's the most expensive 1911 I ever will own. I guess I am trying to say that you are the limiting factor in how accurate your handgun shoots.
 
#4 ·
Well, you could have a baby with a Super Model or Rosie O'Donnell. In the end they would both be your babies, but which would you rather show to your family & friends?

:biglaugh:
 
#7 ·
Ditto above comments but I would add heirloom factor as well. If you can afford it, the joy of passing something special down and hopefully the joy the recipient will have from dads or gramps special gun is nice thought.

I am not saying you cannot have a $500 gun as heirloom, you can because the person attached to it matters greatly, but semi- or full custom might make it further down the generations before being pawned:(

I have a Stan Chen on order and I plan to enjoy and shoot and pass down.
 
#9 ·
This really isn't a simple question . If your asking how much a well made firearm that is designed for battle should cost, well that's probably around 2 grand tops . A target 1911 maybe a little more but not much . Now the high dollar stuff , these firearms could be considered art and art values are determined by demand not practical value . There are a lot of 5000 dollar guns sold so the owner can say that they have a Wilson, Brown, etc. I'm not saying that these guns aren't worth the asking price but you are paying a premium for the name . There's nothing wrong with pride of ownership , if you own a Brown or Wilson you should be proud, they are fine weapons. Is it necessary to spend that much to get a very fine weapon, of course not .
 
#11 ·
There are a lot of 5000 dollar guns sold so the owner can say that they have a Wilson, Brown, etc. I'm not saying that these guns aren't worth the asking price but you are paying a premium for the name .
I have a few Ed Browns and while the name does bring a premium, I think it is small. The real premium is in the build, fit, finish. When you jump up to full customs the craftmanship jumps and therefore cost.

A 20k car will get you same place as a $60k car, but getting there is whole different experience.

Chuck
 
#10 ·
Those that have the means and desire to spend $4-5k on a 1911 generally have an appreciation for some of the nicer things in life.... they enjoy the craftsmanship, attention to detail, and handwork. Some love the quality and luxury of Mercedes Benz.

The $8-10k price point is a whole different league. There are some that believe quality is equal to dollars spent, or just must have the most expensive of something. Often they are in a higher economic status. For them, nothing less than a Bentley will do.

The more price goes up, the less you get for your dollar- its an individual choice as to what they're willing to pay for. I don't think a $3k gun is 2x the quality of a $1500 one.

There are a lot of adjectives that get thrown about casually on gun forums. "Fine, excellent" top tier" superb, premium, great" are all terms that should probably be rationed around here. A $1200 production 1911 is not, and will not (without an expensive trip to a custom smith) EVER be a "fine". Colt, SA, Kimber, DW, RIA, Ruger, Remington, et al do not mass produce "premium" 1911s.
 
#12 · (Edited)
Another thought.......in order to accept the price difference in 1911's and be ab;e to justify it, you also need to value the craftsmanship. A great example is a Rolex or any mechanical movement watch vs a battery operated watch.

A drugstore watch with a battery will ALWAYS tell more accurate time over a Rolex (or other mechanical) because the quartz watch has battery that delivers a constant, consistent, never fail "pulse" that moves the hands, only until battery need changing.

A Rolex on the other hand does not have a battery, but uses perfectly balanced springs, levers, balancers and gears to move hands, and is within international tolerances if it loses or gains +6 (might be 4) seconds a day. So you need to wind often, and every two - three weeks you need to reset time, which could be off a few minutes. Something that will never happen to a quartz watch.

So you ask, why would anyone spend $6k for a starter Rolex and sky's the limit for an expensive one when you can get a $29.00 watch from a drugstore that tells better time, and maybe get more functions as well?

I think it comes down to appreciating and valuing craftsmanship, history, heritage, exclusivity, quality and painstaking detail to what is unseen. A Rolex's movement is based on perfect synchronization between 220 or so parts all hand fitted and can take up to a year to make. Quartz have typically 50 - 100 parts and are put together by machines mass producing them.

If you need to know the time only, get a quartz, if you value what goes into hand craftsmanship get a Rolex or full house custom 1911.
 
#16 ·
I handled a Cabot under construction at a show. Its slide was tight, but smoother to operate without lube than any of mine are right after cleaning and lubricating.
 
#19 ·
The attention to detail is exceptional at the $8k+ price point, and they are the pinnacle of the gunmakers art. Will they perform better than a $3500 Wilson? I doubt it. They're made for the conissuer with significant disposable income. Its a work of art embodied in a firearm.

My take is that at the $1k-$1500 price point, a nice, reliable gun with all the features you want can be had. Its affordable to the working man, and readily available. They may need a touch of tweaking to get just right.

The step up to the $2-3k range buys hand fitting and a lot of attention to detail. They won't have tool or machining marks, will have a great trigger out of the box, and be quite a bit smoother. High quality components, no casting or MIM. It will be noticeably better quality and workmanship at a glance. Depending on effort and priorities, they're still withing reach of the middle class.

There comes a point of diminishing returns. You double the price, you don't necessarily get 2x the quality. Only you can decide if the details and pride of ownership is worth the additional cost. At 8x the cost, you have to place a large value on details and pride.
 
#18 ·
I keep debating ordering a Cabot and putting it away unshot. I've looked at lots of high end manufacturers and they make beautiful hand fitted 1911's out of premium materials. It's one of the reasons I came to this forum.

The virtue I see in a Cabot is their ability to maintain tighter machining tolerances than any other manufacturer.

Their new National Standard Deluxe is over 10 grand. I can see that as an investment alternative.

If I buy one it will probably only be handled with gloves on.

fltsfshr
 
#21 · (Edited)
Fact is, even down heah on Tobaccy Road, some folks could afford to spend $8k on a 1911. Commercial quail huntin is a lucrative business hereabout. Wealthy folks come in on their Gulfstreams and spend $25k for a shotty that they'll use for a few days. They then return the shotty to the dealer who buy it back, discounted a few thousand, of course.
 
#22 ·
If I'm going to pay even $5,000 for a 1911 it had better be made before 1941 and be in like-new condition.
 
#23 ·
My first question is, where is the dividing line? Is there one?

I don't want to spend $1500 and have to do "some tweaking." But I might have to.
I don't want to spend $2500 and have to find out how good the maker's "customer service" is, either. But it happens.
Can I spend $5000 and be assured of a reliable, accurate, good looking pistol? Not every single time.

What does it take? $8000? Luck?
 
#27 ·
Plenty of people out there have spend many times the value of their Glocks on modifications to them. Just sayin'.
 
#26 ·
Have a Wilson CQB that I paid around $2600 a few years ago. The same pistol sells for around $3200 now. This particular pistol is a work gun and used as a tool.

Knowing that I shoot a 1911 better than any other pistol, this one was the best I could afford at the time. The quality, reputation, excellent customer service and lifetime warranty that follow the pistol were what sold me.

So far and at least for me it's proven to be the best tool for the job. I've not regretted my decision and expect to use it for many years to come. YMMV
 
#30 ·
I've had the following 1911's: Remington R1, Remington R1S, Colt 1991, Colt 1091, Colt SCG, Colt WCC, Colt Series 70 and Wilson Combat CQB.

All had several functional issues, except one which cost me $2,800. That one has never burped. Not once in over 3,500 rounds. Guess which. That is what this particular high end 1911 offers.
 
#42 ·
Like Vette, I have 1911s from a long list of manufacturers. Which ones have been 100%?

A Wilson Combat Protector (bought used earlier this year). I personally have only put about 250 rounds through it, but so far, it's 100%.

A Springfield Armory Range Officer with over 6,000 rounds through it. And that RO is as accurate as any 1911 I own.

Just goes to show that you can have a sub-$1,000 gun run with the best ... and that $3,000 guns aren't always perfect. Yes, the odds are better of getting a more accurate and more perfect gun by spending more, but we most of us know the additional expense is more about look, feel, customer service, and weapon longevity than it is accuracy and reliability.

I also have a Guncrafter Industries No Name that has seen 850 rounds with only two hiccups. Both occurred within the first 300 rounds and were my weak reloads using old, uncleaned or tumbled brass. It has been flawless in the next 500 rounds.
 
#32 ·
So, what does a Lexus LS offer that a Ford Focus doesn't?

To the guy just needing to buy groceries or get to work, nothing.

To the guy who can afford either, the LS will be a lot more comfortable and enjoyable to drive.

Both have their place in the market. If you've got the money to buy whatever you want then have at it. Just don't criticize those who can't justify $80,000 for a car or $8,000 for a handgun, let alone those who can barely scrape together $800.
 
#33 ·
I could not consider a price north of $5,000 for a 1911 except in rarity. ie. George Patton's or John M. Browning's personal gun. Maybe some providence where Daniel Boone fought off Tonto or something. Shooting I couldn't tell the difference between a fine Gold Cup and a Wilson Combat with the same features costing twice as much.
 
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