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M&P Vs. Glock, Mechanically-Speaking

5K views 35 replies 26 participants last post by  Flint Mitch 
#1 ·
I was considering purchasing an M&P Shield for some of my concealed carry events, so I decided to investigate trigger improvements on the Shield.

Apex makes what seems to be acceptable kits for improving the Shield's trigger. However, after watching a YouTube video of a guy from Apex installing their Tactical Kit into a 9mm Shield, I began to, once again, truly appreciate the genius of Gaston Glock's design guys.

First, the Apex kit on Amazon costs $78. Not too bad, really, but nothing to brag about. Same parts required to improve my Glocks' triggers would be under $20. Biggest difference, though, for me, was the more complex (not terrible, but just "more" complex) design of the M&P's innards.

The Shield that I watched the guy work on employed a thumb safety, which I'd opt against, if I had that choice, when buying a Shield. Just superfluous piece of stamped metal to me.

Also noticed that Apex furnishes a slave pin for re-installing one of the roll pins in the frame. Nothing about the installation was incredibly difficult, but the design is just too "busy" for me.

Most repulsive of the design features to me was that the rear sight captures the firing pin safety plunger. Glock employs a much better, easier-to-deal-with design, from my perspective.

Sure do wish Glock would build a small, thin, single-stack 9mm pistol similar to the Shield, but without all the Shield's design silliness. :)

Once again, "Thank you, Herr Gaston, for your wonderful product(s)!" :)
 
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#2 ·
I disagree, the M&P is a much simpler design. The trigger group comes out in one piece. The firing pin is removed more easily. The trigger can be tuned to a much better feel than the Glock. I work on both for a number of department. I've done close to six hundred M&P trigger jobs since they hit the street. A great trigger job can be done without any aftermarket parts. The Glock is a fine gun too, but until they came out with the M42 there was not a good CC Glock on the market. The Shield is used by many detectives and undercovers due to its slim size.
 
#4 ·
Thanks much for your input. As I said in my first post, the Shield isn't overly complicated, just doesn't seem as simple to me to work on without a roll pin punch, having to do more aligning, etc. Removing the slide cover, firing pin and extractor mechanisms takes me about 3 seconds on a Glock. How long does it take you?

Have you worked on any Shields without a thumb safety? I absolutely don't want a thumb safety, if I decide to buy one. Also, have you ever installed an Apex trigger kit, and/or fired a Shield that had the Apex kit installed?

I want a trigger pull of about 4#. I don't really mind spending the money for the Apex kit, but just installing an $8 connector and doing some polishing sure seems easier to me. :)
 
#17 ·
As I said in my first post, the Shield isn't overly complicated, just doesn't seem as simple to me to work on without a roll pin punch...
First I have a question, do you make it a habit to not use the correct tools when working on something? I bought a set of Craftsmen Roll Pin Punches from Sears for like $16.99. I'm just raggin' you but seriously, punches are cheap.

As for the Apex Tactical parts, I LOVE THEM!!

I have an M&P .40 Compact manufactured in May of 2012. I recently installed the following:
Apex Duty/Carry Action Enhancement Kit
Apex Polymer AEK Trigger
Apex Reset Assist Mechanism
10-8 Performance Rear Sight

The culmination of all 3 kits brought my trigger pull down to 4.5# and it is smooth as silk with an excellent reset. I used the sear spring from the DCAEK instead of the one that came with the trigger, this put the pull at 4.5 instead of 5.5. The install was simple as pie with the right tools. It took about 45 minutes to do everything.

One thing to make note of, S&W changed the Sear Housing Block but this isn't what has affected the reset the most. Along with the Sear Housing Block being changed the Slide Stop also has a welded tab on the inside of it that the trigger bar comes in contact with.
 
#24 ·
First I have a question, do you make it a habit to not use the correct tools when working on something? I bought a set of Craftsmen Roll Pin Punches from Sears for like $16.99. I'm just raggin' you but seriously, punches are cheap.

As for the Apex Tactical parts, I LOVE THEM!!

I have an M&P .40 Compact manufactured in May of 2012. I recently installed the following:
Apex Duty/Carry Action Enhancement Kit
Apex Polymer AEK Trigger
Apex Reset Assist Mechanism
10-8 Performance Rear Sight

The culmination of all 3 kits brought my trigger pull down to 4.5# and it is smooth as silk with an excellent reset. I used the sear spring from the DCAEK instead of the one that came with the trigger, this put the pull at 4.5 instead of 5.5. The install was simple as pie with the right tools. It took about 45 minutes to do everything.

One thing to make note of, S&W changed the Sear Housing Block but this isn't what has affected the reset the most. Along with the Sear Housing Block being changed the Slide Stop also has a welded tab on the inside of it that the trigger bar comes in contact with.
I have an excellet set of roll pin punches. I don't see that your question is remotely germane to this thread. :rolleyes:
 
#3 ·
I too tend to find the M&P design slightly simpler. The firing pin/striker disassembly is indeed a much easier process (not that the Glock disassembly is difficult - but the M&P can be done with a blindfold on).
 
#6 ·
I look for a single stack 9mm from Glock within 12-18 months. I think they introduced the .380 first knowing that if the 9 came out first no one would buy the.380. I thought Glock missed the boat by bringing out a SS .380 but by introducing it first they sell .380's then bring out the 9mm and people get the gun they wanted to begin with. I think it is marketing genius
 
#7 ·
If I had some reason to believe that Glock's going to produce a single-stack 9mm that's about the size of the Shield, I'd just wait for the Glock. Besides, I'm still pissed at Sheitz und Weazel for their Klintonista traitorous behavior. ;)
 
#8 ·
Dunno that a single stack 9mm compact Glock, if such appears, would convince me to switch from my accustomed G26, but I do know that the S&W M&P 9mm stock triggers were downright awful compared to Glock 9mm stock triggers, and that I wouldn't own another one.
 
#10 ·
Marketing genius is knowing your target market and producing what you need to satisfy that market. I'm a died in the wool 1911-o-phile, but not everyone can manage one. Some have trouble even with the .380 ACP. A good .380 in the hands of a skilled, determined shooter can do the job. Not as well as a "better" caliber, but it still gets it done. Like the man said, "If it is so worthless, let me shoot you with it."
 
#12 ·
In my opinion the M&P has a few major design flaws.
One-the firing pin safety is captured under the rear sight. Don't like that.

Two-Accuracy is erratic in 9mm caliber.

Three-the superb, ergonomic feel of the M&P actually allows it twist more in the hand in recoil than a flat profile Glock and stippling is mandatory.

I like the M&P and have multiple flavors but in my opinion a little tuning is usually required to make a great gun out of it.
 
#13 ·
Trigger Reset...

The original M&P (especially with the thumb safety) had virtually no tangible or audible trigger reset. The Thumb Safety model's trigger return stroke had to travel almost its whole return length for the ignition to reset (it also had a couple hitches on the way return stroke which would feel like a reset, but were not). Going back 2 years, newer production M&P's have a much better reset than before (with the updated Sear Housing Block).
Even with the M&P's trigger update, the Glock trigger reset is still one of the most tangible and audible (and relatively short) resets available on a Polymer pistol (though others manufacturers have bridged the gap in recent years).
 
#22 ·
There are some folks out there that can not rack the slide of a compact 9mm as good as they can a 380 pistol. There is no "one size fits all". For some, the .380 is perfect, and if it is a locked breech design, they can handle the recoil as well. I have many handguns that I can CCW, but in our summer heat, I find my Kel-Tec P3AT with a laser does just fine.
 
#32 ·
I tried the Shield. Nice pistol, but I'm a Glock guy. I have five. The only one that's been a challenge is my 30s. The trigger is finally smoothing out and getting used to the grip and recoil.
 
#33 ·
I love my M&P Shield .
Going to have my friend who is a Glock armorer to do a trigger job.
He loves his Shield too.
But i lust for a 9mm from Glock, that would be about the same size or smaller.
So does he.
If/when they come out with it , my daughter will get the Shield.
I get the Glock.
:)
 
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