my brass

[pleasant1911]

I recently got into reloading. 4.2gr bullseye, lead RN 230 gr. anyways. i shot all my first reloads, and i did okay. got like 8 duds out of 100. I am guessing it is okay since it is my first time. anyways, thats another question. My question is, why does my brass so jacked up? I mean, the first time, the brass from factory ammo, the brass seem in good condition. I reloaded and the second time, some of the brass mouth are bent up...its just more messed up than the factory. is there a reason?

why do i get duds? I put some back in one by one, afterwards....some fire, and some still dont? any answers?

[moxie]

Welcome to reloading.

Eight duds out of 100 is not okay. You should have no duds at all. You might not be seating your primers correctly. Check your instructions and see if you are doing it right.

I'm not sure what you mean by "jacked up." Some brass will get a bit bent when it's ejected, but your sizer die should fix that.

If you can post some pictures it might help someone give you some answers.

Otherwise go back to your instructions that came with the dies and the press and make sure you are doing everything properly.

[UrbanSI]

What gun are you shooting them from?
What brand are the primers?
Are the primers set flush?

For reference: Using wolf primers (known for being hard) I get a light primer strike every 50 or so rounds on a gun that has lightened springs. The biggest thing in finding out what the problem is, starts with process of elimination.

My p-64 was having light primer strikes. I decided to put the factory spings back in (not a fun process BTW) and fired about 200 rounds... No issues.

Replaced the factory springs with the lighter springs one by one. Finally I found which spring it was.

Once I dialed in the spring issue I went back to the ammo, found out that I was seating some of the primers a little too deep. Backed out the primers a hair when seating and things have smoothed out quite a bit. Simple example yes, possibly a frustrating issue if addressed poorly

[Tablerock]

I have never had a primer of any kind in any kind of .45 brass fail to fire in my Kimber.
Striker fired pansy assed Taurus 9mm yes but not my Kimber .45, no.
Regroup, tell us more, are you priming in the press, hand priming ……………..
Pictures always tell thousands of words……………………..

[Old Grumpy]

You should not worry about dents and dings in your fired cases. Worry about those 8 "duds". First off check your primer seating. High primers will often not fire on the first strike. What type of primers are you using? Some primers have hard cups and need a more forceful strike to fire. How many of these eight fired on the second go around? What type of firearm were you using these loads in?

I believe we can help, we just need more information.


Grumpy

[TheGerk]

Originally Posted by pleasant1911

I recently got into reloading. 4.2gr bullseye, lead RN 230 gr. anyways. i shot all my first reloads, and i did okay. got like 8 duds out of 100. I am guessing it is okay since it is my first time. anyways, thats another question. My question is, why does my brass so jacked up? I mean, the first time, the brass from factory ammo, the brass seem in good condition. I reloaded and the second time, some of the brass mouth are bent up...its just more messed up than the factory. is there a reason?

why do i get duds? I put some back in one by one, afterwards....some fire, and some still dont? any answers?

Please receive this with the sincere concern intended.

If you are a new Handloader, your position on non-firing Handloads should be of great concern.
If you take the position that this is 100% unacceptable it will serve as a foundation for uneventful successful Handloading in the future.
It may seem like overburden at first but loading with excellence as the end result is an achievable routine.

Handloading is a "deliberate" pursuit, not an environment for trial and error activity.

It appears nothing disastrous happened with this incident, but a large part of our shooting is done with family and friends, even in action pistol, the guys we are trying to “clobber” are usually close friends and or associates.
Saying sorry after doesn’t get it in the shooting sports

Re-examine your procedures and inspect your loading equipment; anything improper should be corrected early as bad habits in Handloading can be hard to break.

As to your cartridges that did not fire this could be more than ammunition related.
Have you checked the gun?
I am assuming this is a 1911?
If so, when was the last time the firing pin, spring and firing pin enclosure was inspected and cleaned?
A clogged enclosure, broken or damaged spring could be a contributor to the problem.
A loose or poorly fitted FP stop can also exacerbate poor ignition.

What is the overall length of the cases of the cartridges that did not fire?
Are they all on the short side?

Also check the extractor, if it is out of spec or too long it also may contribute to the non-firing condition.


It is more likely a primer seat issue, but always remember to check the gun.

It would also help if we knew
The COL?
Primer used?
How did you seat them and what with?
Is this new brass or range scrap or some other “who knows” what fired brass?
Photos are always a help

One of the reasons some of the cartridges did not fire after two or more firing pin strikes is after the initial strike, additional strikes may just damage the anvil and other components inside the primer.
The materials are all still there, but the internal components could be out of alignment or damaged.
Primers are designed to be struck properly “once” and then ignite.

Good Luck

[crackshotsdad]

As stated by others, don't take anything we've said as us coming down on you. A reload that didn't fire because your gun has an issue is one thing. A reload that didn't fire because it was improperly reloaded is quite another. Since safety is always the primary concern, examine your reloading procedures to verify that everything was/is done BY THE BOOK.
Once you confirm that your reloads are not the issue, have your side arm inspected by a competent gun smith, and have any necessary repairs made to insure safe and reliable functioning.
Remember, when it comes to reloading, YOU are the difference between a bullet and a hand grenade.
Reloading is one of my most enjoyed activities. It appeals to my meticulous nature. I hope you can/do enjoy it as well.

[NETim]

I'd be in full blown drama llama mode if I had 8 "duds" in 100. But then, I've been reloading since Cap'n Crunch was an ensign.

Pay more attention to primer seating as others have mentioned.

[pleasant1911]

sorry, i guess i should of not wrote it like that. I was just more happy that alot of my shots were going right. I use winchester large primers, and i am shooting with my new RIA commander gi 1911, that i just got few weeks ago. I am going to set up some pics soon so you guys can help me more.thanks in advance...no i did not send the duds back through, i just set it aside, i was pressed on time.

I will be hard back on the my bench doing it over, seeing what did go wrong. Actually this is my second time for the reloads. but the first time was just 25 of them to see if they worked...I feel like its an easy fix. maybe i did seat it too high, since i do remember pressing harder on some of them.. maybe it was my gun, but overall i understand it was me. maybe if i reput the duds back in they would of fired...

[Capt. Methane]

How were the primers stored? Have they been exposed to humidity or oil? Something isn't right here...

[herd48]

If they fire on the second try, you can chalk it up to high primer. Also, no offense meant, but if you want accurate feedback. Use an accurate description. Jacked up and duds don't tell us a lot.

[Nick A]

All the cautions and admonishments offered above are us brothers to you brother.
Now,

• Dud means there is an indent in the firing pin but the bullet didn't leave the case?
• Dud means there is NO indent in the firing pin even though the cartride was fully chambered?
• Dud means the cartridge didn't go all the way into the chamber, so the trigger didn't release the hammer?
• Dud means the cartridge didn't go all the way into the chamber, the hammer fell, but couldn't hit the primer because the slide wasn't closed?
• Dud means the cartridge didn't feed at all, it got jammed half way so you removed it?

Now you see why these guys want to help, but they need more info.

[Nick A]

Don't you have a book or manual, son? Did you read it? (Just like Dad, huh?)

I know it's a lot of reading, but those first chapters in Lyman, Hornady, Sierra, Speer, Lee, Nosler, and the ABC's of Reloading probably have 99% of the info you need for success. Pick any two of the above and read them thoroughly.

If no book or manual, online reloading how-to at most bullet and/or powder and/or primer manufacturers web sites. Not all of them, but most of them.




Your dented case mouth is from jamming the ejected case in a near 'stove pipe jam'. If it is actually ejecting, the brass is bouncing off the front edge of the ejection port and making it to the ground. When it hits the slide, that's what causes the dents. Straighten them slightly with a wood dowel or a bullet or another gentle round tool, they will usually resize and shoot again.

[Nick A]

I just went back and reviewed the responses,
pleasant1911 is getting some good advice,
even though it's tough love.

I bet he becomes a good reloader.
And he's really gonna like it!
Just a little more knowledge and experience,
polish up the skill a little more.
I think he'll do just fine.
Just needs a little help from his friends
(vintage Ringo Starr playing in the background.)


Hey, pleasant1911, we all learned that you load 10 and shoot 10.
Until you get the load that works great, you DO NOT load 25 or 100
and then find that you have a problem, or at worst a hand grenade in your hand.
Back at the bench, go slow and load 10, then shoot them.
Follow the procedure in the books, and work up your load slowly.
Easy does it, little by little.

And alway come back here and let us know how you're doing.

Nick

[Old Grumpy]

pleasant1911, good luck and I hope you can get this problem lined out.

Part of the responses are due to not knowing what exactly is at issue here. the problem could be your weapon or it could be your loads. See where this issue could go two completely different directions? If the primers on these "duds" have a dimple in them then you know the weapon is working as designed. A high primer (a reloading issue) might take two hits to fire (first hit seats the primer to the proper depth and the second strike fires the primer). One way to determine this will be to chamber one of the duds and try to fire it a second time.

If nothing happens the second time you need to break the round down. Possibly you have some bad primers, but probably not.

If these rounds do not have a dimple in the primer (after the first unsuccessful arrempt to fire) then more than likely you have an issue with OAL or sizing. If you do not have your seating and crimp die dialed in correctly and have shaved a bit of lead ahead of the case mouth your loads might not be chambering all the way.

So to answer some of our questions, did these duds fully chamber in your RIA? If they did chamber is there a dimple (strike mark on the primer cup)? If there is a dimple try one a second time, did it fire the second time?

Everyone would love to help you track down the cause of these malfunctions but realize you'll learn more doing it yourself. When you (we) get this worked out this will be one problem I doubt you will ever have again.

[pleasant1911]

Thanks guys, and no offense taken, ever. I know...I am reading richard lees, modern reloading, and also tons of stuff on the internet. the lee book is not that great, but okay i guess. I am going to get more textbook on reloading. all the shots had dimples on the primers so it is not the gun. its me and my rookie reloading skills. I will get to the bottom of what went wrong. I think you guys are right on the head on it... its the way i probably seated the primer...
thanks again, masters, this grasshopper will learn...one day, very soon

[Old Grumpy]

Sounds like you're getting to the bottom of it. Next chance you get try to fire a couple of those duds a second time. If they work just mark it off as primers not seated deep enough.

I hand prime (Lee Auto Prime) and some cases are tough. I always press firmly and then look the case over when I pull it from the Auto Prime. Another "trick" I use is to place all the primed cases in the box primer side up. That way when I've finished a box I glance over the whole box (100 rounds) and see if any look different. Occasionally I'll spot one that just does not look quite the same and I'll slip it back into the auto Prime and press the primer in the pocket again. A lot of time I can't feel any change but the vast majority of the time they will look like the others when the come out.

[Nick A]

I know this sounds dumb, but it happens.

Check to make sure that's a fresh primer.

If the old primer didn't get pushed all the way out of the pocket,
at the priming station it just pushes the old one back in.
Same old spent primer.

[BYJO4]

Good thought Nick. I was reading posts just the odther day by someone having that problem.

[Capt. Methane]

Originally Posted by pleasant1911

Thanks guys, and no offense taken, ever. I know...I am reading richard lees, modern reloading, and also tons of stuff on the internet.

Be careful with that internet stuff pleasant...there are some idiots out there!

That being said...

We're fortunate to have a good group of very experienced and cautious people here and it seems to me a higher than average number of them are quite good at making clear, well though out posts. Passing on that experience is a priceless contribution...