If it ever came to really doing what the 2nd Amendment was meant for.

[markbob45]

Originally Posted by krait1

This intrigues me as well. Gun rights today are way less restrictive than they were in the recent past. But it seems the more restrictions that get removed, people(NRA) seem to find 10 more reasons to spout off about how there is a secret plot out there and we need to give more money to them to battle the plot.

We have made progress in 2A freedoms in recent years. That is proof that electing pro gun House and Senate members from both parties is so important. As long as we keep doing that it will be difficult for the small but very motivated group, primarily in the democratic party, who have the goal of abolishing the 2nd Amendment to make progress. Don't be fooled by recent successes. These people are there, they are motivated, well funded, and oppourtunistic. If they get the right "crisis" and the numbers in Congress they will take every bit of the 2nd A they can get.
Without the NRA we probably would have already lost this fight.

[RDCL]

Originally Posted by DANCESWITHGUNS

Our founding fathers were smart to add the 2cnd but I think back in the day they were also on a more even playing ground as far as arms go. When you talk of the overall military might of our military today and what we're armed with in contrast to early Americans vs govt. .......holy smokes.

Exactly.

The 2nd Amendment was already seriously violated & damaged beyond repair long before many of us were born. THAT would be the NFA (national firearms act) of 1934.
It is stated that the NFA served to keep machine guns out of the hands of bank robbers & gangsters. Yeah right.

My own opinion is that the powers-that-be considered full-auto waaaay too much fire-power for even DECENT men to posses. So, the law-abiding public has been effectively de-fanged to protect itself from tyranny ever since.

Russ

[45silverback]

Originally Posted by BillD

Yes sir, that's exactly what I meant.

Most guys in a war know how to win it and have the balls.

Figured it was... Now we should probably do as Staff said and get back on topic....

[Imissedagain]

Originally Posted by michaelgee

The liberals gave their rights up to Obama, don't ever count me in that group. As for being "licked", I am not in that group either.

I was born here with My Constitution that gave me the right to keep and bear arms, Obama was not alive or in this country yet when I received my rights at birth in 1950.
They are my rights and I am not giving those rights up willingly.

2A only states that existing rights " SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED ".

[partsproduction]

I read what Adams has to say about this matter. I believe he states or implies that a temporary provisional Constitutional government would have to be formed, similar to what happened when we won our independence from a much earlier tyrant.

During that awful struggle the vast majority of "Americans" sat on the fence, much as now, while many joined arms with the tyrant!
That struggle went a long bloody time before other governments who also disliked king George believed enough in our ancestors proven dedication to join them, which turned the tide.
So, the weakness of freedom lovers in America was not the limiting factor then, the strength of our friends made up for that.

But who now on this planet would help a freedom loving people? I do not believe any nation would come to our aid because freedom is out of fashion today, worldwide.

I also believe that God would not be on our side now, as He was then. America is morally corrupt, and not just liberals. Hence the judgement displayed by the election of 2008, similar to Israel being carried off to Babylon. Nebadchaneezer was God's "War hammer" against Israel.

Who is the war hammer now? America deserves what has happened to her. I know no one wants to hear that but it's true.

[The War Wagon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DprFY...layer_embedded


There are worse ways to go. The Re-Ejumakayshun Camp at the edge of town, that nobody speaks about, comes to mind...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ooy0G...layer_embedded

[Dave Waits]

Originally Posted by RDCL

Exactly.

The 2nd Amendment was already seriously violated & damaged beyond repair long before many of us were born. THAT would be the NFA (national firearms act) of 1934.
It is stated that the NFA served to keep machine guns out of the hands of bank robbers & gangsters. Yeah right.

My own opinion is that the powers-that-be considered full-auto waaaay too much fire-power for even DECENT men to posses. So, the law-abiding public has been effectively de-fanged to protect itself from tyranny ever since.

Russ

A lot of Misinformation here. Not saying it's on purpose either Russ, First of all, the National firearms act of 1934 is not a Gun-Control law, it's a Tax law. It has nothing to do with the Commerce-Clause,which all American Gun-Laws are based on. Before it was passed the Second Amendment was pretty-much unfettered, you could walk into the neighborhood Hardware Store and buy a Thompson Submachinegun for about $25.00. You could saw the barrels off of a 12ga. with no problems. The Gov'ts' stated idea behind the NFA was to make the gun too expensive so that Gangsters wouldn't buy them so, they came up with the NFA. You had to fill out paperwork, get printed, and pay a $200.00 tax( A lot of money back then) to purchase a Submachinegun. You had to fill out paperwork, get printed and pay a $5.00 tax to cut down a shotgun. The thinking here was that a high-quality SxS shotgun only cost about $20.00 back then(Still, a lot of money for the times) and that people would balk at paying 1/4 of that to cut the barrels down. Well, we all know how that ended up. The Gangsters, being Gangsters, just started robbing National guard Armories.

Anyway, that's how the NFA figures into our Second Amendment. BTW, it does not exclude you from owning a Full-Auto weapon, it just takes about nine months( The first time) and a lot of paperwork to get one, plus the $200.00 Tax Stamp.

Actually, I expect to see it challenged as an infringement on several levels. First, it restricts the very weapons the Second Amendment protects, military arms. Second, for any tax to be sustainable, by law it has to show a profit for the Gov't every year. The NFA hasn't shown a profit since 1940. The last year I saw figures on (2009), the NFA took in Taxes of 2.4 million dollars. The NFA budget for that year( Including enforcement) was 145 million Dollars. Little bit of a shortfall there.

As for the statements about our massive Federal Army squashing us like flies, may I remind all you naysayers about the Afghans who, armed at the beginning with Fuziels and SMLEs, defeated the Soviet Military. Asymmetrical warfare always favors the insurgents.

[HarryO45]

Originally Posted by Dave Waits

Before it was passed the Second Amendment was pretty-much unfettered, you could walk into the neighborhood Hardware Store and buy a Thompson Submachinegun for about $25.00.

you make it sound like that is a bad thing? I miss the good old days...

[6285108]

Originally Posted by Dave Waits

As for the statements about our massive Federal Army squashing us like flies, may I remind all you naysayers about the Afghans who, armed at the beginning with Fuziels and SMLEs, defeated the Soviet Military. Asymmetrical warfare always favors the insurgents.

And it didn't hurt that the USA was supporting the Afghan fighters back then, giving them 50 cal. rifles and surface to air Stingers and who knows what else. Northern Alliance and Mujahadeen (Osama) is who we were helping.

Interesting read: http://www.fromthewilderness.com/fre...01_heroin.html

[corvettezo6]

partsproduction, I think you are right when you said "I also believe that God would not be on our side now, as He was then. America is morally corrupt, and not just liberals."
It saddens me that we are in this state in this once God blessed great country. All of the posts everyone has made are very interesting and contain more common sense and wisdom then are leaders. Who are a complete disgrace.
Having men who will fight for our freedom is invaluable, but we need God also.

[Dave Waits]

Originally Posted by 6285108

And it didn't hurt that the USA was supporting the Afghan fighters back then, giving them 50 cal. rifles and surface to air Stingers and who knows what else. Northern Alliance and Mujahadeen (Osama) is who we were helping.

Interesting read: http://www.fromthewilderness.com/fre...01_heroin.html

True but, that was towards the end of that little insurrection.The first three years or so the Afghans were on their own and had the Soviets pretty-much restricted to their bases.

[Dave Waits]

Originally Posted by HarryO45

you make it sound like that is a bad thing? I miss the good old days...

didn't mean to make it sound like that at all. If there ever comes a chance where the NFA looks to be repealed the biggest voice against it being repealed will be ClassIII collectors. Really good examples of Thompsons are North of $45,000.00 right now. Some of them stand to lose hundreds of thousands of dollars. Repeal the NFA and prices will take a nosedive.

But, you pays your money, you takes your chances.

[MaestroGustav]

Here's how it will work:

after the election, the Lame Duck Senate will ratify a "treaty" with the UN. This will have the force of law, equivalent to the Constitution. It will regulate "small arms" on a global scale. It will supersede our second amendment.

It will necessitate registration (signatory nations must account for the "end user" of every weapon), and will open the door to confiscation. It won't happen right away, of course.

If you want more details, try Dickmorris.com

If you want to fight it, check with the offices of the senators in your state. Oh, and send a check to the NRA. I don't care if you hate the NRA; they are the only group with the clout to move the needle on this.

[Cannibul]

Originally Posted by Dave Waits

didn't mean to make it sound like that at all. If there ever comes a chance where the NFA looks to be repealed the biggest voice against it being repealed will be ClassIII collectors. Really good examples of Thompsons are North of $45,000.00 right now. Some of them stand to lose hundreds of thousands of dollars. Repeal the NFA and prices will take a nosedive.

But, you pays your money, you takes your chances.

Wouldn't even have to repeal the NFA. The 1986 Machine Gun ban would be enough.

That full auto M16 would run around $2k for a real Colt instead of $25k.

[garzanium]

Originally Posted by partsproduction

America deserves what has happened to her. I know no one wants to hear that but it's true.

Ughh, this remind me of all those post 9/11 preachers blaming Americans...

[Bullseye1911]

Originally Posted by Nathan

Bingo! Don't vote for a winner. Find the best person who supports your views exactly, then vote for them.

More like, vote for whatever puts money in their pocket, even if it means living on food stamps, not what is in their best interest of having freedom

To stay on topic, I agree with others, when the time comes that the Govt tries to take it

[JMB1911]

Without a well organized militia with at least one million devoted members, spanning the entire US, what true "defense" do we have. There's a reason that no one even wants their name attached to the word "militia" these days. A standing army of at least one million modern day "minutemen", ready to defend against all enemies both foreign OR domestic... would surely ease everyone's fears. Divide and conquer is the oldest trick in the book and without a dedicated, well regulated militia...forget about it.

[DBLOCK98]

I'm a historian by training so I'll speak about what has happened before rather than throw darts at what may. In Ireland 1916 a small group of people started an armed resistance against the occupying British government. They were not of the majority sentiment at the time but due to the heavy handed reaction of the Brits that sentiment became the majority. By 1923, With the exception of the six northern counties, the Irish forced the Crown to recognise the Irish Free State as an independent nation. Draw what correllations you will, but don't discount the changing tide of sentiment. What one would do today does not necessarily dictate they will act in the same manner in the future