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Optics...Reviews and Discussions

52K views 106 replies 49 participants last post by  LW McVay 
#1 ·
Per your request...post 'em up!
 
#3 ·
Does anybody have any experience with the Burris FF E1 ballistic reticle?

I like their regular BP reticle, but the christmas tree layout that offers wind compensation sure looks like it would be good value for the buck--sort of a poor man's Rapid Z reticle.
 
#4 ·
I have had a AimPoint micro H-1 very nice solid and battery life is awesome.

I also have a NcStar 4-16x30 mildot. its nice it has open turrets, parallax adjuster, ill recital, waterproof, and it says its shock proof but i dont know if i would try droping it. i know its a cheap scope but its nice its held a zero, has a lifetime warranty, looks good, and you cant beat 150$s. its for a range gun it won’t be through the rigors of war anytime soon.
http://www.ncstar.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=24

pics

http://cid-c93633b3d3ed718a.photos.l...B3D3ED718A!115

http://cid-c93633b3d3ed718a.photos.l...B3D3ED718A!113
 
#5 ·
I've been eyeballing the Eotech optics. While I've read that Aimpoint is better, I am looking in the <$400 price range. 512 and 517 are two that I've been considering. Can anyone recommend either?
 
#6 ·
You need to start a new thread as this is not a 'review'...

FWIW though, get an Aimpoint if you want reliability, ruggedness and outstanding battery life. One of the best deals out there right now is Aimpoint's PRO (Patrol Rifle Optic).
 
#7 ·
Simmons whitetail classic 6.5x20 50mm AO

I ordered a pair of these awhile back from Midway when they were on sale for around $100. Now, I didn't expect these to be Leupold or S+B but for the price I wanted to give em a shot. I mounted one to a Savage 10fp .308 and one to a Remmy 600 .243

So far I can say:
Pros:
They have very clear optics
Seem to track & hold zero well
They have a nice matte finish that seems of good quality
They have finger adjustments that click fairly clean & crisp
The AO is dead on & clear in focus at all ranges I've tried (50-300yds)

Cons:
1" tube (30mm would be nicer imo
The Mil-dot reticle is a bit thick (the truplex is ok)
AO is a bit stiff, but not bad
Turrets would be nice

All in all, if you can get past the fact that it says Simmons on it, it seems to be a pair of darn nice scopes & for the money I was pleasantly surprised?
It's not a Leupold by any stretch, but for what I paid, you couldn't pay the sales tax on a Leupold.:biglaugh:

Just thought I'd share,
Thanks
 
#8 ·
I am running an Aimpoint P.R.O. with a Vortex VMX3 on my AR. I believe that was the best value I could find. I did not want to compromise on the red dot, because of the electronic components, reliability, battery life...I decided the Aimpoint was the best option for me.

As far as the 3x magnifier, I saw an Eotech on my LGS and in all honesty it wasn't anything better than the Vortex VMX3, but much more expensive. I am very satisifed with the Vortex VMX3 for much less than half of the price of the Eotech. I would like to know how the VMX3 stacks against the Aimpoint 3x mag.
 
#10 · (Edited)
I have an Aimpoint T1's, an H1, an M4, ACOG 4x32, S&B 5-25x56, Leupold DeltaPoint and Trijicon mini RMR and I've had numerous others from Aimpoint, Nightforce, Nikon, Leupold Mark 4 and one EoTech.

From this point on, I won't be buying anything but Aimpoints and Schmidt and Bender optics. The durability is incredible, even on the micro Aimpoints. there's a great video about the Daniel Defense rifles durability and the T1 takes a serious beating yet holds zero nearly the entire time. I'll post the link below.

My EoTech never did much for me with it's pixelated display and short battery life. My Aimpoints stay on the 8 power setting constantly and I've yet to change a battery.

The S&B's are incredibly as well. I have one on my Barrett M107 and it's held zero for a couple years now, is very easy to adjust and is crystal clear and very bright. It's not cheap, but ranks at the top for me of all the optics I've owned.

https://danieldefense.com/TortureTest

Aimpoint T1 in a LaRue 660 QD mount



Aimpoint M4 and ACOG 4x32





Leupold Delta Point



Schmidt and Bender 5-25x56



Nikon 4-16

 
#11 · (Edited)
Elcan Specter DR 1-4x

I was looking for a versatile optic for my AR for practical rifle competition. Courses typically include close-quarters and distant targets of 300-400yds. After some research, I narrowed my choices down to an ACOG TA-11, the S-B Short Dot, and the award winning Elcan Specter DR 1-4x.

The Elcan is made by Leitz Canada. It combines the functionality of an Aimpoint and an Acog with a lever that switches between 1x and 4x.

Here are the results of some calculations I did to compare the brightness and FOV of the 3 scopes.

At 1x, the Elcan has by far the greatest FOV (24deg at 1x and 6 deg at 4x, compared to 18.2 deg and 5.7 deg for the Short Dot at 1x and 4x respectively). It is vastly brighter than any scope I have found: at 1x the Elcan has an f-stop of 0.6 at 1x, and 2.3 at 4x, compared to f2.2 and 2.8 for the Short Dot at 1x and 4x respectively, and f3.0 for the ACOG TA-11. I've found this to be helpful in low light during dusk and night shooting. I can actually see better through the Elcan at 1x than I can with my naked eye.

The reticle is excellent. The brightness of the red dot is sufficient to use in full sun. The BDC works well with a variety of .223 and .556 loads (out to 500 yards), and the entire reticle can be illuminated in low light. The battery lasts a long time.

I have been really happy with this optic, and my scores in competition have improved as well.

There are some negative comments out there about ARMS mounts. As far as I can tell, these do not apply to the Elcan, and I have had no problems with the mount. The scope has returned to zero every time.

It is a heavy scope, and is built like a tank. However, it is no heavier than a 1-4x scope with a mount, or than an ACOG with a red dot on the side.

Price: well, it will probably cost as much or more than your rifle, but comparable to the other high-end options.

 
#12 ·
Leupold Mark AR 1.5-4x20.



Quite the nice little scope. I bought mine new for $265 shipped from opticsplanet.com

Mounted in a Larue Tactical 104 mount, it has worked very well until I pull together funds to buy a true 1x low power scope for my recce scope. Glass is clear, zero stays. A good buy for someone on a budget.
 
#83 ·
Same scope, Leupold Mark mount on a S&W M-15 carbine. Hit dimes at 100y, quarters at 150. Anything goes wrong, free lifetime rebuilding at the Leupold custom shop. Just a no brainer when you want very good value in a high quality optic.
 
#13 · (Edited)
My quick and dirty review is this: I've had an Aimpoint Comp M2 and a Micro T1. Both were outstanding red dots. I can't say enough good things about them. No news there. My EOTech experience has been with two 512's which were issued. I had a number of issues, including some that required them being sent back to the factory. The EOTech's manual of arms seems overly complicated and not intuitive. As an example, two buttons have to be pressed simultaneously to shut the unit off. Two sparate buttons control the up and down brightness settings, and a third the NV setting. They suffer from poor battery life and it became routine when our SWAT team (issued with EOTechs) had a call-out or training to immediatelt have to replace the battery because the sight had either not been turned off correctly or it got turned on by accident in the bag.

As for Aimpoints, the control could not be more instincitve and simple to operate, the batteries never die :)biglaugh: you know what I mean), and they are bombproof. I hear a lot of people argue that the EOTechs have a better reticle and sight picture. My answer is I'd rather have an optic that was decent and worked 100% of the time than one that was awesome and worked 50% of the time.


On to other scopes:

I've had a couple different ACOGs. TA-01NSN and USMC RCO. I like how mounting an ACOG is idiot-proof. You never wonder if the reticle is truly vertical because you have no contorl over it. :) One thing to point out that I was not aware of...if you are cross-eye dominant (as I am), the Bindon Aiming Concept on the RCO style scopes will not work for you. A surprising number of shooters fall into this catagory so it is something to be aware of.

I recently bought a US Optics SN-3 1.8-10x44. It had all the bells and whistles, 2" honecomb ARD, EREK knobs, ERGO paralax, green illum, etc. It was huge and is already sold. The quality of glass was very impressive, the scope felt bomb-proof as all get-out, and the workmanship seemed very high quality. US Optics customer service was outstanding! Just be warned...these scopes are BIG. And HEAVY. I thought I knew what I was getting in to, but they are not for the feignt (sp) of heart. If you are OK with BIG and HEAVY for your optic role, then I'd recommend one without a problem.

I am purchasing a Nightforce 2.5-10x32 tomorrow. Pics and review will follow when it arrives. :)
 
#14 · (Edited)
Nightforce NXS, Bushnell Elite, and C-More

Bushnell 4200 6-24x50 Tactical

Ran a Bushnell 4200 6-24x50 Tac on my .308 for two years. No tracking issues. Glass was clear. Had a small issue with the coating coming off on the side of the lens and Bushnell replaced it without question. Didn't affect the image quality but I sent it in just in case. The only real issue with either of my Elites is the limited elevation travel which limits your range. The newer models have double the elevation travel so that issue is resolved with the newer Elites. Before the Elites, I went through two Banners, a Trophy, NCStar, Leapers, and several others which all broke before trying to break this one. It's been on two 700s and is now on an HK91. Solid $500-$600 scope. Not sure what the new ones cost.


Nightforce NXS 5-22x50

Recently upgraded to a Nightforce NXS 5-22x50. About 1k rounds with no issues. The knobs are a little more solid than the Elite and it has 100MOA of travel versus 44 on the older Elite. The glass is a little better than the Elite to the eyes of my shooting crew during the daylight but the biggest difference between this scope and the Elites is in low light. Even without the illuminated recticle on the NF, we were able to shoot for 20 mins more on the rifle with the NF. Folks just couldn't see the target well enough to shoot with the 4200. During the day, I noticed everyone was turning down the magnification on the NF because the target was a little clearer at 500 yards with the NF. I haven't really used the illumination yet so I can't report on it other than it works. If you get one, really consider the zero stop and high speed turrets if you compete. Will definitely help you find your dope faster for the next shot.



C-more Red Dot

I've got an Acog on another rifle but I flat out like this optic. Not a better scope than the Trij definitely worth a shot if you are looking for a lower cost option or the minimalist look. 5-6 years old and somewhere around 6k 7.62x39 rounds with it on this gun. Very durable. The AR has been dropped, submerged, etc and fell down a rocky incline once and the scope didn't miss a beat. Still has the original battery in it even though I've taken several two day classes with it. Mine is a 4MOA version but they make 2 and 8 as well.The only negatives is that that elevation and windage adjustments screws are a little lazy. No clicks so you just have to slowly turn and try until you get it where you need it. Not an issue if you are going to set it and never move it. The plastic screw covers on the top of the battery cover screws are also going to get lost if put the rifle to use. I've lost two sets so I just took the screws off and painted the tops. They should have used screws with larger heads and called it a day. That said, if you want a less expensive option, these scopes run in the $250 range.



I won't talk about the Acog because it's ... well an Acog. The rifle it's on has had to be fixed twice while the Acog just runs. For the record, all my guns get worked hard. Not a lot of slow fire bench stuff for these scopes.
 
#15 · (Edited)
Aimpoint Comp M2/QD mount

Haven't seen this up here so thought I'd chime in...these can be had for mid $300s on ebay or the like, just make sure you're getting an authentic model!

Pros:
It's an Aimpoint... indestructible, waterproof, etc. Battery and lens covers really help to keep this thing impervious to water, sand, dirt.
Never had to rezero - the rifle was dropped, thrown in the back of our Gators/Jeeps, mount was removed and reinstalled countless times. Shot same place, every time.
Amazing battery life - I'd flip the front and rear covers closed and forget to turn it off. Week or so later would flip em up and the red dot would still be blazing. Whoops.
Night vision - the first several clicks are not discernible with the naked eye, but nice to have if using nvgs
Mount - just as tough as the optic...while it wasn't high enough for lower 1/3 co-witness it was perfect for absolute with my Troy and KAC micro BUIS. Over-tightening was never an issue was the mount works like a torque wrench, just tighten til it clicks
4MOA dot - I liked it for this application, it might've been a bit large with a magnifier...I never got to try one on it.
Cons:
The factory mount with this knob may snag on gear. Most I expect will swap out for a 1/3 QD anyway

 
#44 · (Edited)
Haven't seen this up here so thought I'd chime in...these can be had for mid $300s on ebay or the like, just make sure you're getting an authentic model!

Pros:
It's an Aimpoint... indestructible, waterproof, etc. Battery and lens covers really help to keep this thing impervious to water, sand, dirt.
Never had to rezero - the rifle was dropped, thrown in the back of our Gators/Jeeps, mount was removed and reinstalled countless times. Shot same place, every time.
Amazing battery life - I'd flip the front and rear covers closed and forget to turn it off. Week or so later would flip em up and the red dot would still be blazing. Whoops.
Night vision - the first several clicks are not discernible with the naked eye, but nice to have if using nvgs
Mount - just as tough as the optic...while it wasn't high enough for lower 1/3 co-witness it was perfect for absolute with my Troy and KAC micro BUIS. Over-tightening was never an issue was the mount works like a torque wrench, just tighten til it clicks
4MOA dot - I liked it for this application, it might've been a bit large with a magnifier...I never got to try one on it.
Cons:
The factory mount with this knob may snag on gear. Most I expect will swap out for a 1/3 QD anyway

Revisiting this after more drills, I've found the QRP's knob gets in the way when trying to manipulate the bolt release. This happens about 10% of the time, even more-so when slapping the release with the butt of my hand. Not so much an issue when hitting the release with my thumb.

You can see below the close proximity between the QRP knob, bolt release, and sling/sling attachment point. Sling is obviously oriented rearward when the SBR is slung during reloads.



Just a FYI, random thought, etc.
 
#16 ·
The Aimpoint series, M2/3/4, is about as bullet proof as you can get.
 
#18 ·
I've got a EOTech 516, and a Vortex VMX3 magnifier.
The reason I chose the EOTech over Aimpoint is because of the field of view looking through it. They are both great, and everyone has different reason they chose one over the other. I chose the 516 specifically because it used the 123 batt over AA batt. And the adjustment buttons are on the side versus the rear. This allows for a magnifier without getting in the way of the buttons.
I chose the Vortex VMX3 because after looking through both, I couldn't tell a difference between the two. Both had very clear glass. Only complaint I have is with the AD mount that rotates out of the way instead of flipping out of the way, but an easy mount change will take care of that.
Here is a decent review of the magnifier.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_18/497315_Vortex_VMX3_magnifier_review_.html
 
#21 ·
Add the Aimpoint PRO to that list. Brand new can be had for $400 on a QRP mount. Affordable for a bigger range of shooters, and well....it's and aimpoint. Great durability, loooong battery life. A great optic.

I recently picked up a Millet DMS 1-4x and mounted it. I will be using it for the first time tomorrow night. It has a ring/dot reticle that I really need to get used to. For the price and what I have read about these it was worth the try.
 
#22 ·
Figured I'd give my opinion of the Eotech 516 that I put on my Sig 556......
I've got around 500 rounds down range through this combo, and I must say, I really like the 516. I like the circle around the dot, and the thing is just dead on and solid once sighted in. I have taken it off, and put it back on and found that despite doing it repeatedly, it only requires slight adjustment to be dead on again at 200 yards. I wasn't expecting that. I like the numerous brightness settings - the lower power settings (1 and 2) come in handy on longer range shots as the dot appears smaller to me on the low end of the power. I do plan on picking up a magnifier to mount behind it at some point in the near future also. The unit cost me $450 locally. I was initially drawn to it because of it's construction. The thing appears almost bullet proof. In handling it, you get a "rock solid" feel, at least I do. The only thing I wish it had and would add if given the option is an adjustable dot size. The dot is great at 100 yards or so, but appears large to me for work at 200+. Nothing I can't deal with, but if I could make a wish, it would be for the adjustable dot. I believe that they advertise the dot as 2 MOA, but that's from memory, so take it with a grain of salt.
So, condensed version:

Pros
Solid as a rock
Stays zeroed despite jostles and bumps that happen in movement/use
Can be remove and remounted with only minor adjustments needed (if any)
Wide selection of brightness setting
Dot is quite easily picked up quickly (as with most sights of this type)

Cons
Would like to see an adjustment for the dot size

Sarge
 
#47 ·
i have an eotech XPS with 3x flip to side multiplier and love it. i couldnt agree more with youre review, i have heard some say that the reticle is too "busy" and i can see how one could make that agruement but for me its great. intially i was afraid that the multiplier would make the somewhat pixilated reticle even more pixilated but it actually refined it making it far more defined. i read in an earlier post that the battery life is suspect, prehaps in earlier models, but i have left mine on for upwards of 6 months and it hasnt died, i use surefire 123 batteries. i know some of the other models use AA's so i suppose that depending on the quality of battery you use it would affect the life span of them. As far as the durability of this optic in comparsion to an aimpoint i think that both are quite rugged, certainly for the purposes that the vast majority of us are using them for. i rarely see anyone at my range throw their optic or rifle 30 feet down range, and even if you do chose to do this , i have seen manufactures ads for eotech and aimpoint that do infact do this and both hold up quite well. long story short is hard to go wrong with either eotech or aimpoint, both are fantastic products.
 
#23 ·
I am hoping somebody gets their hands on one of those new Lucid HD7's and has some things to say about it. The people of youtube seem to like it but then again... they like a lot of things. If I'm not mistaken I read somewhere that its basic design is built from the same materials as the aimpoints but dont exactly quote me on that.
 
#28 ·
I know you asked this back in December, but it popped out to me today. I handled a Lucid HD7 at a gun show this weekend and while I'm not the optics guy (though I've run my share of Leupolds) a lot of these guys are the optic felt different from the usual junk you see had gun shows. Optics were clear, controls were precise, the reticles appeared crisp and clean, unlike the usual cheap stuff, and while this is hard to describe, it just "felt" different, more together in the hand than the usual cheap fodder.

I also came across this review at Defense Review by a guy with "a bit more" credentials than your average youtuber. http://www.defensereview.com/lucid-...e-quarters-battle-cqb-combat-optic-under-500/

Oh, price at the show was $199. The only thing I didn't like was the 2-hour time out on it. I'd like to see a way to over ride that. While it may work fine for any real shooting I'm likely to be doing, I'd like the option to be able to leave it on a bit longer. Since I fire long guns off the left shoulder it wouldn't be much to just push the left mounted button when I pick the gun up, drilling until it becomes as much a habit as thumbing the safety on a 1911. Then again, at the range I use you rent the tac bays for 2 hour blocks. I guess I could use it as a timer. :D

I might pick one up later so I can compare that type against the micro dot knockoff I'm using currently to try out how it works for me before making the commitment to a dedicated optic on my AR.

If you've gotten one since you posted let us know what you think of it.

Amos
 
#49 ·
Many years ago when first shopping on net. I ordered from Botach that was a mistake I learned quickly, there are some places on the net you just don't shop at. after you order they quickly charge your credit card, you don't get what you ordered you can't get them on the phone what you get is voice mail they won't answer your e-mail. When you do get some of what was ordered it is the wrong items.:bawling:
 
#31 ·
I've used Iron's and Red Dots in the field. I've had experience first hand with Aimpoint and EOTech. Both are great optics for CQB. That said, I had an EOtech RDS with a EOtech 3XMag on my personal AR and down graded to just a Walther PS22.

For a shooter on a budget... I found that the Walther PS 22 RDS with the Vortex 3X mag worked just as well! It's half the price of the EOTech setup and for shooting paper it's great!

If your life depends on it or you're in competition then spend the money on great optics. If you're a average weekend shooter and paper/dirt is the only thing you hit then research a low budge RDS. :cool:
 
#33 ·
Im sold on US Optics.


Nightforce has GREAT glass and adjustments but I prefer the durability and customer service of US Optics
I've owned one USO and two Nightforce over the years (unfortunately I don't own either right now). You'll get no argument from me about the customer service at USO. The people were very friendly and helpful to work with (outstanding customer service to be honest), and you certainly get the scope custom made to your specs. My question for you is on your other comment, durability. Is this percieved or real? The USO certainly feels bombproof, and heavy to boot. But do you have any experience that shows they are actually more durable than Nightforce? I ask this because the anecdotal stories I've heard from people using these two scope brands overseas is that the oposite is true. From what I've heard (and it's completely hearsay), is that USO's have had more failures than Nightforce in combat conditions.

Regardless, they are both very well made scopes. I've got to admit, I liked the reticle better on the Nightforce. The reticle seems much more crisp and defined on the NF to me. If I get another magnified optic in the medium to higher power range, it will likely be a NF.
 
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