Store Owner on trial for shooting at thief

[Herbert Cannon]

http://www.suntimes.com/13210110-761...ces-trial.html

[Herbert Cannon]

Looks to me like they have bigger worries than this:
http://www.suntimes.com/13249160-761...1-wounded.html

[mintaka]

Following thief from store and shooting at him, is no no in most states...besides putting bystanders in jeopardy....threat leaving, stay put....

[tchostler]

This idiot's going to jail, and should!
tc

[ehparis]

Originally Posted by tchostler

This idiot's going to jail, and should!
tc

I agree. You don't shoot a bad guy who is running away regardless of whether or not he has stolen goods.

[1toughdog]

Originally Posted by Herbert Cannon

http://www.suntimes.com/13210110-761...ces-trial.html

Rule 1: Do not pursue! Period.

[Herbert Cannon]

While I agree with all of you - chasing and shooting at a thief is a really bad idea. Puts innocents at risk.
We had something similar happen here some years ago. A thief snatched up a bunch of jewels in a jewelry store and ran out the door. The owner ran after him and fired two shots at him. There was much debate about it. However, everyone was so fed up with crime that the majority came down on his side. That was a surprise. Possibly people felt that way because crime had gotten out of hand and caused several businesses to be shut down.

[Lordofbarbeque]

Each state is different on this I believe. Can't you shoot them in Texas under their theft laws?

[PolymerMan]

Originally Posted by Lordofbarbeque

Each state is different on this I believe. Can't you shoot them in Texas under their theft laws?

I agree it depends how the state's law is written. I interpret Florida law that you can while the forcible felony is in progress. So as long as he had the stolen merchandise on him and had a gun used as a threat against the store owner, he could shoot to stop the "robbery" even if he fled. However, once he drops the merchandise, I think it's game over, because the forcible felony has been stopped. But that is my interpretation. But the use of a weapon or physical threat of some sort used against the store owner is critical. Simple shoplifting would not rise to the level of a forcible felony.

[Lordofbarbeque]

I seem to remember a Texas case that was listed on here a while back where the owner shot two A/C theives as they were leaving his house with the unit in their truck. It was my understanding that they were fleeing the scene and off his property when he unloaded on them.

[CarlCyrus]

No justification in shooting at fleeing thieves. Once the threat of imment danger to self or family/customers has passed let the police do their job. That is what property insurance is for.

Carl

[Itshak]

The only time you can shoot at a fleeing felon is if he commited a crime of violance like arson, rape, murder etc. Because if he escapes he might do it again and kill or maim other people. To the best of my knowledge this applies to my state but I don't know if it applies to all states.

A 6 year old little girl was abducted from her bedroom and raped and murdered just recently, if you would have seen this happening from a distance and by the time you got there the perp started running would you shoot to stop him or would you let him run and maybe do it to some other kid tomorrow? It could be even your kid G-D forbid.

[dillehayd]

Originally Posted by CarlCyrus

No justification in shooting at fleeing thieves. Once the threat of imment danger to self or family/customers has passed let the police do their job. That is what property insurance is for.

Carl

In TX the standard is whether the item can be replaced. Shoot over a big screen TV? No. Grandma's wedding ring? Yes. Insurance isn't a factor. At all.

[master gunner]

Originally Posted by CarlCyrus

No justification in shooting at fleeing thieves. Once the threat of imment danger to self or family/customers has passed let the police do their job. That is what property insurance is for.

Carl

Used to be able to.

[pleasant1911]

No, you cannot fire at people in general public like that. I own a business, and I would never shoot anyone outside my store during business hour... But before and after business hour, in front of your business... Let him show you a gun and take your jackets, after hours in front of your store...you can shoot him. You can not during hours, unless he is in front of you, otherwise you just gotta let it go. That's why you got to have a thick skin, to be in business. Can not win all the times.

[GlenS]

This is Illinois where gun laws are very strict. I moved away from there in 1979 to a more friendly state. These kind of things is what gun control get you. The bad guys haveguns, the good guys don't. And if the good guy does have one and uses it he goes to jail. Best bet, move aotu O illinois.

[CavCop]

For those that want to know the Texas law on Deadly Force property (people is different, this is just for your property...);

9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is
justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or
tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the
other under Section 9.41 (simple and easy to meet this); and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the
deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of
arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the
nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing
immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated
robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the
property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or
recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to
protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or
another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.

The law changed a few years back, to let a property own shoot for night time theft thats fleeing. If it is night time and kids are tossing eggs at your car, you have a right to stop that. But when they run you do not. But if they are stealing your gas can at night you can use the force needed.

Texas has some good laws. But every county can be different. Think bout this, what is your deductable for insurance? How many times will you let a person steal under that amount and get away with it?

[Shad Roe]

Originally Posted by Lordofbarbeque

Each state is different on this I believe. Can't you shoot them in Texas under their theft laws?

Google "Joe Horn" from Texas.

[SRJim]

Originally Posted by CavCop

The law changed a few years back, to let a property own shoot for night time theft thats fleeing. If it is night time and kids are tossing eggs at your car, you have a right to stop that. But when they run you do not. But if they are stealing your gas can at night you can use the force needed.

Texas has some good laws. But every county can be different. Think bout this, what is your deductable for insurance? How many times will you let a person steal under that amount and get away with it?

I'm never disappointed if I go looking for amazement.

I guess "a few" can be 3 or 75 depending on the person, but how do counties trump State penal code and with what?

[SRJim]

Originally Posted by Lordofbarbeque

Each state is different on this I believe. Can't you shoot them in Texas under their theft laws?

Originally Posted by Shad Roe

Google "Joe Horn" from Texas.

The Joe Horn case is not related at all.

[master gunner]

Chase him till you get a clear shot.

What I don’t understand is bad guys are not an endangered species; so why in hell are they protected?

[dsk]

Maybe it's just the news media digging this stuff up on purpose, but there seems to be an increasing number of these self-defense shootings that are either grey area or completely unjustified. Using lethal force to defend yourself means you shoot to stop an unprovoked attack that's putting you in immediate danger of death or serious bodily harm. It doesn't mean you can initiate the confrontation, refuse to avoid or de-escalate it, or try to continue it after your assailant has broken off the engagement. Some of these guys crying foul over the justice system are learning a very expensive lesson.

[pleasant1911]

a lawyer(a friend of mine) told me when robbed or attacked by a deadly weapon as a knife or gun, i have all means to protect oneself. no law can tell you how threatened you felt at that moment. its like telling a woman who was raped that it was less of a crime because the rapist was not too rough with her. and you can not tell her that she cannot protect herself after the rape is over bc the rapist has his back turned and walking away. only the acutal person(s) or witness that were there can actually put any input into the case if it goes to court. all other is hearsay. You could be the president of the us, and be a supreme court judge at the same time, but if you were never at the seen and i was, your evidence at trial better be 10000% solid, bc if not i was there and you weren't . No body in the court of the U.S.A can tell you how somebody else felt.

ex. if you had a twin brother, and both of you guys got robbed at the same time and the same place, although you guys are identical twin and share natures bond, you cannot tell the judge how your brother was feeling at the time of the robbery, even if you were next to him and saw his expression, that would not stand it court...heresay...you could tell them what you saw yes, but any thing else...no...so

[CavCop]

Originally Posted by SRJim

I guess "a few" can be 3 or 75 depending on the person, but how do counties trump State penal code and with what?

Texas is a big state with 254 counties. The DA's office has say on what they accept. While the "State" mean top down government to some, its worked from the bottom up. same with the Federal laws vs State laws.