My STI Spartan :(

[old-lefty]

Originally Posted by STI_Rep

You are correct- we send Armscor the firing controls and they build them with their frames, slides, and barrels. They send them to us and we run them through our QA department to make sure they run right. If they pass, we send them back out.
Thank you for your vote of confidence- we WILL make it right!

I have three STI Spartans - 2 45acp's and one 9mm when they first came out - they all run 100% and are very accurate - action is very smooth!!!

[yarosig]

Originally Posted by STI_Rep

You are correct- we send Armscor the firing controls and they build them with their frames, slides, and barrels. They send them to us and we run them through our QA department to make sure they run right. If they pass, we send them back out.
Thank you for your vote of confidence- we WILL make it right!

I spoke with David several weeks ago and he was very helpful. Mailed me a shipping label faster than I could find a shipping box.
I have full confidence that STI will make this Spartan right and live up to my expectations. One of the biggest reasons I went with STI spartan is I hear about accuracy; I have fun out shooting my friends using rifles with my pistols.

[Joe_Atlanta]

Originally Posted by yarosig

I have full confidence that STI will make this Spartan right and live up to my expectations.

Please keep us updated. I also got a Spartan that's not quite right (beaver tail fit and function and extraction problems). After tweaking the gun myself a teeny bit at a time and 3 range trips, I've about got it fixed.

So far accuracy has not lived up to what I expected from user reports and I may send it back to have another barrel fitted (Spartan IV "match grade" bull barrel seems a bit loose at the muzzle when gun is in battery).

[Fa2]

My Spartan IV does not have any play in barrel & considering it will shoot stronghand 1.5" groups @ 15yrds I'm certainly happy with its accuracy.

[maraf]

Originally Posted by STI_Rep

You are correct- we send Armscor the firing controls and they build them with their frames, slides, and barrels. They send them to us and we run them through our QA department to make sure they run right. If they pass, we send them back out.
Thank you for your vote of confidence- we WILL make it right!

Back here in the Phils Armscor also has a very good reputation for CS. I remember sending my decade old 22 cal air rifle to their factory to fix air leak and they returned it back as if it was brand new, they blued the gun and refinished the stock, and it hasn't leaked for years. STI has made a good choice in selecting them.

To the Sti rep, you mean to say even the spartans sold here in the Phils are sent to Texas for QC? If thats true that will surely increase confidence for us buyers. Am thinking of getting one.

[STI_Rep]

Originally Posted by maraf

To the Sti rep, you mean to say even the spartans sold here in the Phils are sent to Texas for QC? If thats true that will surely increase confidence for us buyers. Am thinking of getting one.

Hmmm.. you know, I'm honestly not sure. Let me do some checking- ok no, the ones sold in the Philippines don't come to Texas to turn around and go back. Our QC manager and CEO have flown there numerous times and helped establish the inspection criteria and are confident enough in their work to put our name on it. Thanks for raising the question (I learned something today, too!)

[Joe_Atlanta]

Originally Posted by Fa2

My Spartan IV does not have any play in barrel & considering it will shoot stronghand 1.5" groups @ 15yrds I'm certainly happy with its accuracy.

Geez, I'd be happy with that. Shooting with wrists supported on the bench at 15 yards I'm getting 2.5-3". At that same distance (from the bench) my Gold Cup puts them in a ragged .6" hole. Even my little SR9C does 1-1.75" and it makes no "match grade" claims.

I finally got the grip safety squared away. Once I get the extraction problem fixed I'll do some serious bench testing with multiple types of ammo. Hopefully, my Spartan IV will find something it likes better than what I've been testing it with.

[yarosig]

Originally Posted by Joe_Atlanta

Geez, I'd be happy with that. Shooting with wrists supported on the bench at 15 yards I'm getting 2.5-3". At that same distance (from the bench) my Gold Cup puts them in a ragged .6" hole. Even my little SR9C does 1-1.75" and it makes no "match grade" claims.

I finally got the grip safety squared away. Once I get the extraction problem fixed I'll do some serious bench testing with multiple types of ammo. Hopefully, my Spartan IV will find something it likes better than what I've been testing it with.

Sorry to hear about the inaccuracy issues. Knowing my luck Extraction issues are next. This whole experience has reallly made me regret buying a Spartan. I waited two months to preorder the pistol. Now I'm waiting agqin. lord knows how, long it will take to get it back. Its the same 2 more weeks story everytine I call. Call me impatient, but when I spend 800 on a pistol, I expect it to meet or exceed my expectations. Talk about some careless qc at the factory. One would think if a man writes his signature on a tag: who inspects 1911's for a living. Would notice a a fubared barrel.

[Joe_Atlanta]

Originally Posted by yarosig

Knowing my luck Extraction issues are next. This whole experience has reallly made me regret buying a Spartan.

Well, you (like me) took a $400 roll of the dice (difference between Spartan and Trojan) when we got the Spartan. It seems to have worked out for most folks and I have confidence that STI will make it right for the rest of us.

I doubt you'll have extraction probs, those seem to be mostly a small percent of the 9mm Spartans. From my research any 1911 in 9mm is more inclined to magazine, ejector and extractor woes than the .45 version. I think I've got mine about tuned in, put 50 rounds through it yesterday with only 1 fte. I'm going to tweak the hook a tad bit more and if it it can make it through the next 50 without failures I'll call it done and settle in for some accuracy testing.

[dakrat]

Originally Posted by yarosig

Call me impatient, but when I spend 800 on a pistol, I expect it to meet or exceed my expectations. Talk about some careless qc at the factory. One would think if a man writes his signature on a tag: who inspects 1911's for a living. Would notice a a fubared barrel.

How do I know if a 1911 is the right choice for me?

That is a tough question as I feel most people are best served NOT using a 1911 as a primary sidearm. Two criteria come to mind a) A passion for the 1911 platform and b) you are willing to be your own armorer and can fix relatively minor problems or fit certain parts yourself. If you are the kind of guy that doesn’t mind tinkering with your Harley Davidson motorcycle to keep it running then you are a candidate. If however you treat your pistols like we all treat our lawnmowers then don’t get a 1911 – use a Glock.
-Larry Vickers

[yarosig]

Originally Posted by Joe_Atlanta

put 50 rounds through it yesterday with only 1 fte. I'm going to tweak the hook a tad bit more and if it it can make it through the next 50 without failures I'll call it done and settle in for some accuracy testing.

Sorry to hear you are having fte problems. I'd consider a Taurus pt92. 800 rounds, had zero problems.

[ken_mays]

Originally Posted by dakrat

How do I know if a 1911 is the right choice for me?

That is a tough question as I feel most people are best served NOT using a 1911 as a primary sidearm. Two criteria come to mind a) A passion for the 1911 platform and b) you are willing to be your own armorer and can fix relatively minor problems or fit certain parts yourself. If you are the kind of guy that doesn’t mind tinkering with your Harley Davidson motorcycle to keep it running then you are a candidate. If however you treat your pistols like we all treat our lawnmowers then don’t get a 1911 – use a Glock.
-Larry Vickers

I wouldn't even go that far. I'd simply say that in a production 1911 -- something short of semi-custom -- corners are often cut and it behooves one to check them to see if they're set up right. If they are, little further "tinkering" is necessary. Just shoot it and replace the recoil spring every 5000 rounds or so.

[ekujustice]

Extraction issues are best solved by an aftec extractor

[richpetrone]

I have never had issues making a 9mm function properly with my single stack 1911 guns, nor the STI 2011 guns I have built. All of my 9mm guns use magazines with a spacer in the back to move the shorter 9mm round forward in the mag. In my opinion, these type mags work best when using the standard Cot long extractor, since it allows the fired brass to exit the gun faster, which helps to prevent the round being stripped from the mag to jam into the fired case being ejected.

The proper length ejector with a properly tuned and fitted extractor, along with a magazine that sits in the proper height of the frame, all makes a difference in the way the 9mm will function. All of the 9mm guns I have built are used in competition, and are extremely reliable.....when I have an occassional problem, it is usually a reload/ammo issue, and usually when I practice. I case guage all my ammo for competition, but not for practice....since I prefer to have an occassional issue to keep me sharp on how to clear jams quickly. I seldom, if ever, have a jam when shooting competition.

[Joe_Atlanta]

Originally Posted by dakrat

....don’t get a 1911 – use a Glock. -Larry Vickers

For many years when we were subject to Colt's neglect of their pistol division LV's quote stood up (although much of the tinkering had nothing to do with reliability and was simply the urge to hot rod, my 70's Combat Commander with it's buried K frame sights being a prime example). But with so much competition these days, it's just not the case.

While it's apparently hard to manufacture and thoroughly QC a 1911 for much less than 900-1000 bucks, there are several manufacturers who make or market less expensive guns and stand behind them with good customer service and a 100% warranty. So even if you buy cheap and get a lemon, you can return it to the company who will make it right and make it run.

Kind of like what some of my friends have done with their Gen 4 Glocks.

[Cultclassics]

my old sti spartan was similar......returned it and they worked out all my issues....good to deal with

[yarosig]

Well I got the 1911 back several months ago. Sti said they replaced the barrel and installed a stainless steel bushing. Upon inspection of the barrel bore with a flashlight and naked eye. there are pits and machine marks inside the bore AGAIN. Not as bad as before but at the exact same spot two inches before the end of the barrel. I compared the bore with my friend's Springfield 1911 GI and his is perfectly machined. I did not take the whole gun apart but was able to twist the barrel bushing with my bare hands with almost no effort at all..... Shot the pistol using Remington UMC 230grf bullets. Even ran a bore snake after every 8 rounds to ensure proper break in. Slide stop would not stay open after last round on both the factory mag and the Wilson Combat Tactical Elite magazine. Accuracy was better than before, but still iffy, barrel bore bugs the hell out of me, last round wont stay open.

[yarosig]

Shot it again this weekend 200 rounds. Accuracy was all over the place , left right and rarely towards where I aim. Had Hipoint for comparison and the hipoint was on target every time.

[yarosig]

Finally some better pictures. Notice the uneven lead fouling on the grooves. All my other Guns have an even coat of powder & lead on the grooves.


Rifling Grooves appear to have uneven depths. Not a a gun expert but all my guns have perfectly machined rifling.


Notice the Barrel Hood overhang gap over the chamber. Not a gunsmith but just observation, not sure if it means anything.


To the left is a my friends GI Springfield 1911. Something about this gap does not seem right. Mine seems way too big.


Something is just not right, the accuracy is nowhere close to what others have reported. It is not my shooting either. Also the bushing is so loose I can wiggle the barrel in the bushing in full lock.

[Dimonback]

Originally Posted by STI_Rep

Hi guys-
We provide the fire control parts to Armscorp who builds the Spartans to our specs (with their barrels, frames, and slides.) We get the completed guns in, run them through our QC, and handle any warranty work here in Texas but the guns themselves are not built here. We are all very sorry to hear you've had a problem with the guns and I've spoken with the warranty guys about your case and they assure me that they will take good care of you

Just bought a Spartan 4 for my wife (I'm in Round Rock, right down the road from you) and I sent in a request for your Techs- what height is the front sight? I happen to have a Fusion Fiber Optic .180 in hand, and I'd sure like to mount it on the Spartan.

Added note- took the gun apart to install the Fusion sight(yes, I miked it and found it to be a .180). Did some inspecting cleaning and polishing, and found that the lands and groove were much shallower than I've seen- it appears their rifling tool is all but worn out. I'll hit the range with it before I bring it in, but I wonder.

[Dimonback]

Originally Posted by Joe_Atlanta

For many years when we were subject to Colt's neglect of their pistol division LV's quote stood up (although much of the tinkering had nothing to do with reliability and was simply the urge to hot rod, my 70's Combat Commander with it's buried K frame sights being a prime example). But with so much competition these days, it's just not the case.

While it's apparently hard to manufacture and thoroughly QC a 1911 for much less than 900-1000 bucks, there are several manufacturers who make or market less expensive guns and stand behind them with good customer service and a 100% warranty. So even if you buy cheap and get a lemon, you can return it to the company who will make it right and make it run.

Kind of like what some of my friends have done with their Gen 4 Glocks.

I know for a fact that Sig 1911s can be had for less than the $900, and mine was more accurate than I am.

[GrumpyDog]

This is quite a thread. I have been seriously wanting a 1911 in 9mm and in particular the Spartan V. These QC issues with the entry level STI make me question that plan. I had thought the 1911 was an exceptional platform all the way around. More modern double stack poly frames have obvious carry and tactical advantages, but I thought the modern 1911 was supposed to be a solid performer. Either I have been mislead or this is an extremely critical thread of The Spartan and low end 1911's. I don't consider $725 small money for a handgun. I would expect it to function reliably and accurately. I would not expect 1" groups at 25 yards, but I would expect it to go bang every time, and I would expect the gun is more accurate than my ability to shoot it.

I like the idea of starting with a solid upgradable platform and then customizing to both personalize and improve performance. Based on this thread a spartan does not seem like a safe bet for a starting point. Comments or suggestions anyone?

[old-lefty]

The Spartan is a production pistol, as is Springfield, Colt, Smith & Wesson, and so on. You can get a Colt new and out of spec just like a Spartan or any other.
What matters most is the warranty service that backs up the production pistol.

I have 19 pistols built by RIA - including 3 Spartans. Then all go Bang EVERY TIME I pull the trigger. of this hurd of pistols only one has been in for service.
Others here will testify to the quality of the Spartan platform.

So buy with confidence.

[epj]

In the past two years I've bought two Spartans and two Trojans. The Spartans are just as reliable as the Trojans, and probably just about as accurate. The Trojans are nicer in terms of fit and finish. Both are very tightly fitted. The Trojans have ramped barrels and will probably feed some ammo the Spartans won't. No issue with either one using RNL bullets. The Spartan front FO sight could be improved on.