What ammunition does your local and state LE use?

[yoyotweak]

After a considerable web search, I wasn't able to find any site that has a comprehensive listing of state and local LE issued ammunition. If there is one, post the link for all, otherwise lets start one here.

[BoulderTroll]

Originally Posted by yoyotweak

After a considerable web search, I wasn't able to find any site that has a comprehensive listing of state and local LE issued ammunition. If there is one, post the link for all, otherwise lets start one here.

You won't find a list. Each department chooses their own. Even though it's not a state secret people may be scepticle about answering your question for a couple reasons. 1) It is sort of a strange topic for a first post in a 1911 forum. 2) You didn't tell us anything about yourself in your profile and you made no introduction.

I don't mean to be a turd, if other people feel like answering fine. It just feels a little "off" to me.

Finally, since there is an LE section of the forum, that would probably be a better place for this thread. But hey, I'm not a mod and my opinion is worth what you payed for it.

[yoyotweak]

Originally Posted by BoulderTroll

You won't find a list. Each department chooses their own. Even though it's not a state secret people may be skeptical about answering your question for a couple reasons. 1) It is sort of a strange topic for a first post in a 1911 forum. 2) You didn't tell us anything about yourself in your profile and you made no introduction.

BoulderTroll, sorry to have triggered (no pun intended ) the suspicion alarm. I just updated my profile info. Hopefully that will facilitate a better comfort level. Otherwise I hope I sufficiently preface my interest in the topic below:

As far as the topic being strange, the thought came to me while I was listening the the 2A Radio Show with Bill Carns, on RPN. One of his recent topics was dedicated to selecting a DA proof round. Basically his argument is that if you use the same type of round as your LE, and you're involved in defending a deadly force scenario, being able to articulate that if the round your local LE uses is good enough for them, then it's good enough for you. As opposed to using some hot or exotic defensive round that an antagonistic DA could present some sort of 'with your super killer round, you were just out to kill' type argument to a jury.

Hence the unfruitful search for a registry or database. After thinking further about the subject, it would be interesting to also know how many rounds they purchase per active officer as well, but I'm sure that kind of information would be a little harder to come by.

Anyhow, being that this is the only gun related forum I'm an active member of, I figured this as a good a place as any to present the topic for consideration.

So who would one actually contact in both the local and state level LEA, to get this information?

Originally Posted by BoulderTroll

I don't mean to be a turd, if other people feel like answering fine. It just feels a little "off" to me.

I hope I've soothed the queasy feelings.

Originally Posted by BoulderTroll

Finally, since there is an LE section of the forum, that would probably be a better place for this thread. But hey, I'm not a mod and my opinion is worth what you payed for it.

I didn't see a LE forum, and your probably right, that would have been a slightly better place to post the topic. But since it's already started here, I'll leave it as is.

[BoulderTroll]

I appreciate the added clarification Yoyotweak, I hope I didn't come across too strong. On one of the other forums I visit (a military/ LE forum) people will get dogpiled and often banned from the forum for something as simple as a lack of introduction or profile information, given the sensitive information that sometimes gets discussed. Sometimes that mindset carries with me to other forums as well. No personal offense was intended.

So, back to your question. Like I said, I think it will be just about impossible to obtain the information you're seeking without going to each agency individually. There is no Federal or State entity that keeps track of what local agencies use, to my knowledge (or probably even other national agencies).

How departments choose ammo varies. Some will simply mimick what a major department uses since they know the bigger agency did lots of testing and research and they don't want to pay to reinvent the wheel. Some departments do extensive testing on their own. Mine was one of these. They tested various rounds through different mediums, such as car doors, windshields, blue jeans, etc. A lot of defensive ammo hollow points will fail to expand after going through denim because the material will get caught in the opening and the round will behave like a FMJ.

After lots of testing we got the final approval of our forensic pathologist. We are lucky to have a very knowledgable guy who was a trauma surgeon in Viet Nam and is a gun nut himself.

One place you might want to start is reading articles by Dr. Fackler, particularly through the IWBA (International Wound Balistics Association). But for your needs the only place you'd really have to check is your local LE since what some department across the country uses wouldn't really be benefitial to you.

But as for the actual intent, the "DA proof bullet", I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it. If your handgun has grips on it with the "Punisher" or a personalized serial number that says "Iamthejudge" then you might have some issues if you shot someone in self defense. The circumstances of the shoot are going to be infinitely more important than the kind of ammo you are using. The DA will be able to decide if the shoot was good or not. If it was a good shoot then the most bad-a$$ ammo in the world will not be an issue.

For off duty use I carry Speer Golt Dot 147 grain in my 9mm's, Speer Gold Dot 165 grain in my .40 cals and 75 grain Hornady TAP in my M4. You can read between the lines.

Everyone in a department should know what the duty ammo they carry is. We get tested on it. As to the question of how much ammo per officer...the firearms team/ range master is the only on person who'd even be able to guess. Heck, even the chief probably has no idea.

[Tank308]

Boulder Troll - its 180 grain Gold Dots

[BoulderTroll]

Originally Posted by Tank308

Boulder Troll - its 180 grain Gold Dots

I guess I failed that part of the test. I was doing the best I could from memory. But I wasn't entirely wrong...I do have 165 grain Gold Dots at home for my .40 cal.

[Tank308]

Actually I screwed it up as well. Its 180 grain Winchester Rangers

[BoulderTroll]

Originally Posted by Tank308

Actually I screwed it up as well. Its 180 grain Winchester Rangers

Not me. All my mags still have Gold Dots. Many people still haven't gotten the Rangers and I'm one of them. Only going to the range twice a year (in our current assignment) means that the ammo exchange is slow in coming.

[Nomadz]

We are issued Hydroshoks for patrol (Despite many of our protests) but thankfully use Ranger Bonded on the Team.

[HRT_DRVR]

180 Ranger T in .40

230 Ranger T in .45

[BoulderTroll]

Originally Posted by HRT_DRVR

180 Ranger T in .40

230 Ranger T in .45

Whoa...you guys are issued .45's? And you're also in Central CA??? You and I need to become friends.

[HRT_DRVR]

We aren't issued .45 we have to purchase but are provided ammo if we do so!

[gtriever]

Speer Gold Dot .40S&W

[KenW.]

We get Speer Gold Dots, 230gr. for the .45; I don't know about the .40 Short & Weak or the 9MMs we have out there.

[richpetrone]

In the state of Florida, every agency has their own criteria for which handgun caliber and which ammo they choose to use.

I use my own handloads for self defense and do better quality control checks than the large ammunition makers. I knew a competitor at a police shooting national championship that lost the national title and finished second because the factory round he was using didn't fire. They pulled the bullet and found the brass case didn't have a flashole!

By reloading my own, I can find the most accurate load for my barrel with the velocity I want using a JHP round. I have a small defense 9mm pistol called a Star Firestar. I found a great high velocity handload for this gun that shrank the groups considerably....basically it is a +P+ load that gets about 1250fps out of the 3" barrel. The gun groups about 3" at 25yards, but the hardest thing is to get a good sight picture due to the short sight radious.

[John M]

We are issued the following.

9mm, Winchester ranger 127 gr +P+

40 cal, Winchester 165 gr Ranger T or 180 gr Federal HST

45 ACP, Federal HST 230 gr +p or standard.

[slowjon]

Our department issues Ranger SXT ammo for both 9mm and 45acp The 45 is 230gr, not sure what the nine is (I don't shoot nine).

[31niner]

speer god dot 125gr 357sig

[boxerglocker]

A number of the local deptments in my area carry issued Speer Gold Dots, Federal HST or Remington Golden Sabre.

If you want to know just ask... I always do when I have a moment and see a local LEO that I don't recognize. Normally they are pretty approachable and will answer.

[mherzog]

We used to be issued Black Hills remanufactured 180gr FMJ for practice and qualification, and Winchester Ranger SXT 165gr JHP for duty. But these days, the department takes what it can find.

We've practiced/qual'ed with Lawman, PMC, even Wolf - and the Rangemaster has threatened to pull out that case of Blazer he keeps hidden.... Duty ammo has become very scarce and rumor is we may well start carrying FMJ because of it.

[Che]

Originally Posted by richpetrone

I use my own handloads for self defense and do better quality control checks than the large ammunition makers. I knew a competitor at a police shooting national championship that lost the national title and finished second because the factory round he was using didn't fire. They pulled the bullet and found the brass case didn't have a flashole!

Was that Ray Crawford or Ed Kenny? I know a guy who was going to win the DM class and forgot to load the last six rounds. Sh .. ooting happens.

Anyways I go with Mas Ayoob and other expert opinions and I would not carry handloads for self defense. You have a bad round, "tap and rack".

[Che]

Originally Posted by yoyotweak

I wasn't able to find any site that has a comprehensive listing of state and local LE issued ammunition.

Most agencies go with the lowest bid and/or whatever is the flavor of the month. For every expert that says brand "A" is the best, brand "B" has experts that say the same thing. Another thing is if brand "C" makes a famous .45 round does that means their .38 is decent too?

[tenalpha10]

Ranger T, 127 gr 9mm, 180 gr .40 and 230 gr .45apc. Also 55 gr silvertip, .223

[capnjim]

Hey there, yoyotweak!

If nobody else has said so, welcome to the forum! You'll find lots of good stuff here, mixed in with the usual BS.

Read, participate, and enjoy!

Regards....

[Nomadz]

I doubt any agency in the Nation would OK reloads for duty carry.