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TNoutdoors9 tests the .45 HST in Standard, "It's an absolute beast!"

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#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
TNoutdoors9 tests the .45 HST in Standard Pressure, "It's an absolute beast!"

Wow, I should say. He also said, "The block has given birth to a tarantula."


.892 inch average diameter.

Glad this is my carry load.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWW2Y-IZpyE
 
#2 ·
Very impressive test results. I just recently acquired three boxes of HST 230 gr. +P for my EDC.

What astounds me is that for the same cost of a box of 20 rounds of other "premium" JHP ammunition, I was able to get a box of 50.

Between these and Ranger T's, I have no desire to try or carry anything else.

Fin
 
#4 ·
Good news, Federal apparently decided that they will do a production run of 147gr this year. If your favorite place to buy it has it ordered they may get some this year.

Many places just buy from stock so that they do not have to commit money. These places probably will not get any.
 
#5 ·
Our duty rounds for the .40 is the HST 180 grain and in the 45 Acp we use the HST 230 grain +p
 
#6 ·
Only quarrel I have with his testing is how he measures his diameters. He goes largest points only, which with designs that produce petals is incorrect. To get an actual average diameter, an average is taken between widest and narrowest points.

Still, HST and Ranger both work very well in the world.
 
#29 · (Edited)
That makes for an interesting note with his next .45 test. The Gold Dot's here have a .10 lower average diameter (appx), but appear to have more frontal area. Notice the slight difference in tissue crushed in the cross-sectional cuts he did? The Gold Dot seemed to crush more, although that could be an effect of his block cutting action, or due to many other possible factors.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mftGL4VY8QQ

First Speer 200gr. test I've seen come out positive....

are you now counting 7 serrations there, instead of the previous 6? Bullet change fixed the issue?
 
#8 ·
Yes, but his average is not the same as what I'm talking about. When he gives it, it takes the largest as max, and average is the average across several projectiles. This is misleading as the expanded diameters are taken incorrectly (widest point only, not the average of widest and narrowest points, since with a projectile that is not of a uniform diameter, it will not create a uniformly wide wound channel). This skews the size to the large side and is not an accurate measure.
 
#15 ·
Thanks DK. Makes sense. Also since surface area is much more importnt at lower velocity uniformaty in stats is much more important. A small difference in dia measurements could be sigificant in real word effect.
Sorry, back to the op I agree this is a very good looking round
 
#17 ·
'Bout like it does in 9mm and .40 Smith: It penetrates, it does some damage to tissue, and with proper placement, will stop a bad guy with proper application of lead injections. Let's not lose sight of the key here: there IS no magic bullet.
 
#24 ·
From what I can dig up on the Hi-shok, the performance out of the .45 ACP is no better/worse than with Winchester White Box JHP or Remington Green-box JHP or any other basic hollowpoint.

As to HST vs. Ranger, here's a post from Doc Roberts. I stand corrected on the Ranger T-series standard pressure, as well, as it is continuing to demonstrate a failure to expand through heavy clothing:

From: http://m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=1088838&postcount=1

For for over a decade, agencies here have typically used the .45 ACP 230 gr Win Ranger Talon or Fed HST loads in both standard pressure and +P versions. The Federal standard pressure P45HST2 load is currently being issued at a large California agency. We tested this HST duty load in contrast to the new revised RA45T loading.

Win 230 gr Ranger Talon JHP (RA45T) fired from 1911 at ave vel of 911 f/s; 5 shot ave below:
BG: Pen = 12.3", Ave RD = 0.70", Ave RL = 0.44", Ave RW = 227.2gr
4LD: Pen = 25.1", Ave RD = 0.45", Ave RL = 0.60", Ave RW = 228.8 gr
AG: Pen = 16.1", Ave RD = 0.54", Ave RL = 0.48", Ave RW = 189.6 gr

Fed HST 230 gr JHP (P45HST2) fired from 1911 at ave vel of 879 f/s; 5 shot ave below::
BG: Pen = 12.6", Ave RD = 0.80", Ave RL = 0.44", Ave RW = 231.5 gr
4LD: Pen = 13.4", Ave RD = 0.55", Ave RL = 0.71", Ave RW = 231.2 gr
AG: Pen = 16.3", Ave RD = 0.54", Ave RL = 0.58", Ave RW = 230.6 gr

We have previously seen issues with some RA45T loads failing to expand through 4LD, as discussed here: http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads...r=85659&page=3. We had hoped that the newer Ranger Talon design would no longer exhibit this issue--clearly it has not been fully resolved... In addition, the new Ranger Talon purportedly offers larger expansion of the "talons". Unfortunately, most of this additional expansion is behind the leading edge of the projectile, so it is less likely to be touching and cutting tissue, as the temporary cavity forming at the leading edge of the projectile can stretch the tissue away from the expanded talons at the back of the bullet.




The photo above illustrates current HST duty rounds to the left of the quarter--a BG shot is directly above a 4LD. To the right of the quarter is the 230 gr RA45T--top row into BG and bottom row into 4 LD. Note that one of the RA45T projectiles shot into BG is turned nose down to depict the wider expansion at the back of the bullet.

The current Federal .45 ACP standard pressure HST loading appears to have surpassed the Win Ranger Talon in overall terminal performance.
 
#30 · (Edited)
I wouldn't take much about the differences in actual channel in gel as indicative of anything. Gel, while good for testing the macro performance of a bullet, does not behave the same way at the granular level as real tissue, making any conclusions of actual effect on tissue impossible.

A study of actual wounds in humans or a close analogue would tell you more, but I have looked at probably a few thousand cases and have determined that the only constant, readily apparent conclusions you can draw are next to useless as far as making sure determinations on predicting how a bullet will behave.
 
#31 ·
well because of this thread I had to go out and buy 200 rounds of the stuff. (45 auto)

Next fall I will see If I can shoot a deer with it, (legal caliber in my state) and do a little autopsy on it to see the damage, and penetration. That would be about as close to real world performance as you can get.


My hollow point collection is growing.
Interesting side story:

I shot an adult moose last year at 350 yards with Barnes ballistic tip bullets .338 cal TRX 185 grains. It put a Star cutting pattern thru both lungs, just like what is seen in the ballistic gel in the video. (so sometimes the gel vs. real skin/bone/muscle/vitals can be pretty close) The bullet passed thru.
 
#33 ·
well because of this thread I had to go out and buy 200 rounds of the stuff. (45 auto)

Next fall I will see If I can shoot a deer with it, (legal caliber in my state) and do a little autopsy on it to see the damage, and penetration. That would be about as close to real world performance as you can get.
I've been toying with carrying my .45 ACP during firearm season also. Would the 230 gr. HST put a deer down with one accurate shot to the vitals? What would be a good range for a lethal hit...within 20 yds.

TNFrank...check SGAmmo :)
 
#32 ·
Wow, nice to see that kind of performance from a non-+P loading. Looks like I'll need to pick up a box of 45 HST for my HD use. Currently have Hornady 230gr +P stuff in the gun but I really don't like to run "hot" stuff through my gun if I can help it. $37 a box of 50 is a great deal too, since most good HP stuff for the 45acp will run you $20 bucks a box for 20 rounds. Yep, got to check and see where I can get a box locally. Thanks for posting a great YouTube vid.
 
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