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  #26  
Old 12-05-2013, 04:55 PM
Lawless Lawless is offline
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While I have had many guns full of MIM parts I have never had any problems with them. As long as they do what their designed to do then it's all good.

I believe the only production 1911 that has no MIM parts is Dan Wesson. And yes, I have broke a Dan Wesson hammer.
  #27  
Old 12-19-2013, 08:58 AM
jimjc jimjc is offline
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The problem is people with little knowledge are just repeating what they've heard and keep the forged/mim controversy fueled. MIM parts have proved themselves over decades in every industry by working under all levels of stress.

Manufacturers of expensive 1911's have pointed to the use of forged parts as one of the reasons to justify their wildly over priced guns. Yes forged parts are a bit more expensive, not because they are of so much higher quality, it takes longer to produce [ higher labor costs] compared to the MIM process of manufacture.

Ruger has been known for their rugged high quality guns for a very long time and they stand behind them. I have confidence if Ruger thought a forged part was absolutely necessary, they would have used it where MIM was used.

Myself when my Ruger CMD. gets hear I will have the black parts refinished to match, I could care less that they are MIM, I just like the looks of all silver. Jim
  #28  
Old 12-19-2013, 09:11 AM
jimjc jimjc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brushout View Post
You are 100% right. There is probably nothing wrong with well made MIM parts. I just don't like them in my 1911s. I have the skill and ability to change them out, bar stock parts are readily available and reasonably inexpensive. So, I change them out along with a few other custom work to my weapons while I am at it.

I am not saying I am right or wrong, I was just letting the forum know what parts are MIM and which one are not. Most probably already knew, but some my not have known. Then you guys can make up your own minds as to what you are comfortable with. If the part ever does break, then hey, don't get mad, just use this as an opportunity to upgrade the part.

Oh and I do not usually wear a seat belt. Only when it is raining or I am driving over 60 mph. Not because of MIM parts, but because I do not believe the Government has the right to tell me what I need to do to stay safe.
My friend your logic behind why you don`t ware you seat belt doesn`t reinforce your idea about forged vs MIM parts. Especially that you are probably 1,000.000+ times more likely to get killed in a car crash than getting killed in a gun fight because your MIM parts failed. Jim


PS I REALLY LIKE THE WAY YOUR GUN LOOKS!
  #29  
Old 12-21-2013, 08:52 PM
Sin Nombre Sin Nombre is offline
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MIM/PIM properly done exceeds forged parts in some areas and almost all "barstock" parts. not a bad thing at all. One thing is with these the grain structure is random and interlocked as opposed to barstock which is aligned. This improves strength. Forginf aligns the grain with the die and can also improve the strength.
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  #30  
Old 12-22-2013, 12:38 AM
PuddleMonkey PuddleMonkey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobalt Thorium G View Post
Kimber on the other hand is ridiculous for what they charge for all but the most basic of their guns. And they are all the same internally.... full of MIM.

Kimbers gun that is closest to Rugers SR is the Custom II. It has a MSRP of $871. Rugers SR1911 has a MSRP of $829, not far off. having owned both, I'll take the Kimber all day long. All it took for me to sell my Ruger is taking it apart once to clean it. It just isn't that impressive. I have a dozen other Rugers but I wont go back to the SR1911.
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  #31  
Old 12-22-2013, 07:49 PM
CPTKILLER CPTKILLER is offline
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This is from one source. This is not voodoo but good engineering. Like many materials it has limitations and should be used with that in mind.

"Fatigue strength and fracture toughness

Sometimes a problem is evident in the dynamic properties such as fatigue strength or fracture toughness. For high toughness materials this is not an issue. But in other cases testing is recommended. For the 17-4 PH surgical stainless steel, V-notched impact tests showed the MIM material had only 15% of the fracture energy of wrought (even when the wrought material was subjected to the same sintering thermal cycle) [4]. The fatigue strength for MIM 17-4 PH stainless steel at 10 million cycles is 500 MPa. This is slightly lower than the cast or wrought product and reflects the larger grain size and residual porosity associated with MIM."

Some representative material strengths of MIM material are:

Material Yield Strength Tensile Strength Elongation %
1060 37,710 PSI 84,122 PSI 25
4140 56,564 PSI 84,121 PSI 15
4140 HT 179,847 PSI 200,152 PSI 2

- See more at: http://www.pim-international.com/des....sTIOcDWY.dpuf

Maybe this will bring some rationale ideas on this.
  #32  
Old 12-22-2013, 09:27 PM
Bigboreshooter Bigboreshooter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sin Nombre View Post
MIM/PIM properly done exceeds forged parts in some areas and almost all "barstock" parts.
Of course......this is why you see so many MIM barrels out there.
  #33  
Old 12-22-2013, 10:36 PM
shane45-1911 shane45-1911 is offline
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The problem with MIM, is the process. A finished part may look fine on the outside, but there is no way of verifying that the part does not have internal density variations and voids.

Some (most?) MIM parts are fine. The problem is you can't tell that ones that aren't, and no manufacturer is going to start fine-scale magnafluxing on penny parts to pull out the bad ones.

God, why do I keep getting sucked into MIM trainwreck threads? And I don't even own a Ruger....
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Last edited by shane45-1911; 12-22-2013 at 11:06 PM.
  #34  
Old 12-22-2013, 11:23 PM
Magnumite Magnumite is online now
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where's the popcorn?
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  #35  
Old 12-23-2013, 05:58 PM
Martensite Martensite is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brushout View Post
I looked at all of the black parts on the Ruger SR1911. They are all MIM parts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KAS300 View Post
No ****, Sherlock.
I didn't know this. I guess by your standards KAS300, I'm a dumb*** too.
  #36  
Old 12-23-2013, 11:25 PM
KAS300 KAS300 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PuddleMonkey View Post
Kimbers gun that is closest to Rugers SR is the Custom II. It has a MSRP of $871. Rugers SR1911 has a MSRP of $829, not far off. having owned both, I'll take the Kimber all day long. All it took for me to sell my Ruger is taking it apart once to clean it. It just isn't that impressive. I have a dozen other Rugers but I wont go back to the SR1911.
I think Kimber builds a fine 1911, but to be fair, compare apples to apples. The Kimber Stainless II retails for $998.
  #37  
Old 12-24-2013, 09:15 AM
AesonVirus AesonVirus is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnumite View Post
where's the popcorn?
Exactly...

I see a lot of people talking about how MIM parts suck but I see very little evidence of them failing. Sure, it happens but forged parts fail as well.

And now that Kimber is being brought into the conversation as a comparison, why don't you guys discuss plastic mainspring housings next. I've certainly seen more threads on those failing, with pictures as proof.

Plastic and nylon are okay but injection metal is not?
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  #38  
Old 12-24-2013, 10:19 AM
shane45-1911 shane45-1911 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AesonVirus View Post
I see a lot of people talking about how MIM parts suck
For the record, I never said MIM parts suck. I said it is more difficult to tell a bad MIM part from a good one. The process hides the defects. A forged or machined process does not.

I'm not a big fan of plastic either. You won't find any of that on my 1911s, as well as MIM.
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