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Old 10-15-2013, 09:05 AM
BIGJND BIGJND is offline
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Remington HTP 45 AUTO 230 GRS.JHP SUBSONIC




pro/con of this round as a SD AMMO? velocity?
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Old 10-15-2013, 08:46 PM
Joshua M. Smith Joshua M. Smith is offline
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Hello,

It appears to be the old UMC stuff -- standard Remington hollowpoint -- in new packaging. Here is a test in 9mm:

________________________________

From my ammunition tests archives, 08-10-2007

Handgun: Taurus PT92, 5" barrel
Ammunition: Remington UMC 9mm standard pressure, 115gr, packaged in a 100 round "value pack" L9MM1B

I was asking around the various gun boards about this stuff a while back. I received mixed opinions as to how it would perform, so I went ahead and bought it with the intention of testing it. If the tests came out in its favor I would relegate it to second string carry ammuntion and woods ammunition. Here is the test using four layers of denim and water jugs.


Most important to any handgun/ammuniton combination is the the ability of the ammunition to function reliably in the firearm. Though I've done some gunsmithing to my Taurus to make it ultra-reliable, bullet shape never hurts either. As you can see, this Remington hollowpoint has almost a hardball profile.

Being old tech, this round is representative of older style hollowpoints designed to be used in pistols originally engineered to feed ball reliably. It works.


My standard water test setup...


And from the front...

That four layers of denim is thicker than it may look on camera. Take the leg of your blue jeans and fold it in half - imagine a hollowpoint bullet performing properly after being plugged with that much material.

Usually I insert a movie of the shot here, but I was shooting alone today.


After the shot I discovered two things: First, the bullet didn't seem affected in its performance by the denim as the front jug exploded and landed on the ground, seperated from the denim which had been taped on well. The second thing I noticed was that, after shredding the second jug as well as the first, the bullet veered off and disappeared. (I set the jug back up for photographic purposes.)

Though I could postulate what happened from the reaction of the milk jugs, I didn't have a bullet and therefore nothing was "solid." I set up two more jugs which were meant to be used to test my carry round, the Bonded Golden Saber. That'll have to wait a week or so now.


As you can see, the second setup is the same as the first.


Here is the front jug and denim exactly how they landed after my second shot. The jug seemed to have been launched into the air and was totally shredded, looking as if someone had put a mouse inside and thrown it to the coyotes! This is performance typical to hollowpoints the generation previous to our current "best" crop.

The previous generation of hollowpoints, while they typically expanded well, usually did so in the first few inches. This was true of the Silvertip, and in my experience, true also of the Federal C9BP "Classic" hollowpoint. I used this last to dispatch a sick rabbit once at 15 yards or so, and it took that rabbit apart, looking as if it had expanded almost fully before exiting the broadside shot.


These are jug numbers, from right to left, 2, 3, and 4. Notice how jug #2 is blown out, and jug #3 is losing water.


I found the spent bullet between jugs #3 and #4.


The bullet exhibited textbook expansion after passing through four layers of denim. Again, fold the leg of your blue jeans and imagine the bullet performing well after passing through that barrier. As well, I didn't measure correctly. These jugs are 6" thick instead of the 4" I am used to. Penetration was closer to 18" in water, or about 9" in ballistic gelatin.

Sorry about that, folks. The milk people need to tell me when they're going to change form factor! Oops! Seriously, I should have measured before jumping to conclusions. I will do so from now on.


A closer shot of the expanded bullet. As I said, textbook performance...
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Old 10-15-2013, 08:46 PM
Joshua M. Smith Joshua M. Smith is offline
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Curiously, the jacket and core did not try to seperate. Though I'm not too concerned about it, I may email Remington to see if they've begun bonding everything...


From the front, you can see how the jacket peeled back. Though not designed like the Black Talon, Ranger or SXT, this jacket is fairly sharp and protrudes enough that I'd guess it would see some "action" if used for serious purposes.

Honestly, this stuff surprised me. Though I carried the +P version of this ammuntion while waiting for some premium stuff to arrive, I didn't truly feel comfortable with it and used it for range fodder as soon as the premium ammunition arrived.

Not the best these days by any stretch of the imagination, this Remington ammunition, now (perhaps sadly) relegated to discount store bulk ammunition sales, still has plenty of punch to do most jobs which need doing. While not top-of-the-line any longer for barrier penetration, having been designed to the older penetration specification of 10" - 12" instead of the 12" - 14" we usually accept as the golden standard today, this old style ammo should still do the job in most defensive situations encountered by law enforcement and legally armed private citizens.

I'm favorably impressed.

__________________________________

Will it work in .45acp? Dunno. Probably. The 9mm worked fine and has worked fine in the past on live targets.

The same question might be asked of the Federal standard hollowpoint. I found some and plan to buy a couple, few boxes. It was one of my favorite loads in 9mm.

In my opinion, we've reached a plateau of bullet design with regard to hollowpoints. The next generation will be sintered "smart matrix" type bullets and stuff we're already seeing, like monolithic copper.

Fishing lures are mainly made to catch fishermen. Likewise, modern defensive ammo is mostly made to catch shooters.

Something I don't see mentioned often is that yes, the ammo has arguably improved from the 1990s, but tactics certainly have! As hit rates go up, so does "bullet performance" and "stopping power".

As long as a round is reliable, I would not have any qualms about carrying it for defensive purposes, even if it's hardball.

Regards,

Josh
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Old 10-15-2013, 08:57 PM
Archie Archie is offline
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Pros and Cons?

In favor: It is .45 caliber. It is 230 grains. It is a hollowpoint. Sub-sonic? Really? Since the speed of sound is roughly 1150 feet per second, nearly all .45 ACP ammunition is sub-sonic.

Against: Cost, maybe? Does it work in YOUR pistol? Does it group reasonably well in YOUR pistol? Can you find any on the shelves at the supply store?
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Old 10-16-2013, 01:37 PM
BIGJND BIGJND is offline
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Joshua M. Smith, Thanks so much for your in depth info and review it is greatly appreciated.
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Old 10-16-2013, 01:53 PM
BIGJND BIGJND is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archie View Post
In favor: It is .45 caliber. It is 230 grains. It is a hollowpoint. Sub-sonic? Really? Since the speed of sound is roughly 1150 feet per second, nearly all .45 ACP ammunition is sub-sonic.

Against: Cost, maybe? Does it work in YOUR pistol? Does it group reasonably well in YOUR pistol? Can you find any on the shelves at the supply store?
Archie,Thanks for your reply, the Remington HTP 45 auto 230 jhp (sub-sonic) sells for about $42.00 + tax(box of 50) at the local sports Academy but have found Remington UMC 45 auto 230 grs. jhp for $53.00 + tax for a box of 100 and it shoots, cycle well in all my 45.
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Old 10-16-2013, 02:13 PM
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Snorkel Snorkel is offline
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Check out gunbot.net.

I recently got a 50rd box of CCI Speer .45 ACP 200 Grain Gold Dot for $32.95 from Ammunition Depot.
http://www.ammunitiondepot.com/CCI-S...hp-p/53965.htm
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Old 10-16-2013, 06:34 PM
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I guess I'm not a fan of redundancy. Subsonic 230 gr 45 acp is about as redundant as it gets
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