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  #1  
Old 09-05-2013, 10:52 PM
zdragon52 zdragon52 is offline
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armed society is a polite society




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Old 09-05-2013, 11:33 PM
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Where were those girls when I was a kid? And where do they carry their ammo?
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Old 09-06-2013, 01:35 AM
Jim Watson Jim Watson is online now
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The crime rate in Switzerland is low because the society is homogeneous.
It does not have the many conflicting ethnic and racial groups of the USA.
Firearms are for the militia and sport, seldom used or even carried for defense.

And the phrase "An armed society is a polite society." is incomplete and misunderstood.
The full quote by the perceptive Mordan Claude is: "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."
In the society of Beyond This Horizon, dueling was legal. Crime not a problem.

A more useful thought might be in another quote from the same book:
"The police of a state should never be stronger or better armed than the citizenry. An armed citizenry, willing to fight, is the foundation of civil freedom."
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Old 09-06-2013, 02:03 AM
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Plus they are a neutral country. When was the last time they stepped in to help anyone else? I've been there, they are wonderful people with a gorgeous landscape. Jim, you made a wonderful point about them being a homogenous society. They have not allowed the racial strife or crime into their peaceful homeland. I'm jealous. They have always taken care of their own.
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Old 09-06-2013, 05:17 AM
pyunker45 pyunker45 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Watson View Post
The crime rate in Switzerland is low because the society is homogeneous.
It does not have the many conflicting ethnic and racial groups of the USA.
Firearms are for the militia and sport, seldom used or even carried for defense.
Great answer, thanks
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Old 09-06-2013, 06:55 AM
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One of em kinda looks like they DO have McDonalds there, though.

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  #7  
Old 09-06-2013, 07:12 AM
Herbert Cannon Herbert Cannon is offline
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Many years ago I traveled through Switzerland on a Sunday. I could hear crack crack crack as I approached several villages. Then I saw a gentleman bike by me with a carbine strapped to his back. I realized the sounds I was hearing were rifles being fired on mountain ranges above me. At that time, rifle matches were a national sport.
I also noticed, coming down from the mountains, there were several signs with slashes drawn through cameras. That was for their army bases and sites. They were not kidding either.
It is a most beautiful country. It is said it has a very low crime rate because people have been living in the same village for generations. So there are a hundred eyes always watching you and all of them know you well.
Understand they may have a Muslim problem now though.
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Old 09-06-2013, 07:16 AM
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Thanks Jim for the quote.
Oh ..the photos are nice too
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  #9  
Old 09-06-2013, 07:33 AM
hal copple hal copple is offline
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Never been there, but i think part of their "neutrality" is that they play the middle ground well and always to their own advantage. Like concealing Nazi wealth, so they wouldn't be invaded. Making it difficult for surviving Jews of WWII to recover their art and funds. When countries with so little racial or religious or cultural differences criticize the USA for our problems, I completely ignore their smug attitudes. Have they sent UN Peacekeeping forces anywhere?

Long ago, when i was in the army in Germany, and would drove thru France to and from Spain, i was so upset with France for withdrawing from NATO, that i would not buy gas or so much as a croissant in France.

One thing i have to admit, though, is that if one wants to see truly beautiful women on every street corner, go to Europe.

My wife and I have arranged for a river cruise next fall to Switzerland, so maybe my mind will change some by then.

All the best....
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Old 09-06-2013, 12:39 PM
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I have to disagree with a couple of propositions made here. The first is the Sci-Fi author's dictum that "An armed society is a polite society".

This statement is clearly wrong. It comes of course from a Sci-Fi author and was made in a sci-fi book so he was not bound in any way to base his dictum on anything in the real world, past or present. We in the U.S. are about as armed a society as you can get these days across the board that is. Parts of Syria or Mexico may be exceptions but even there, as a whole we here are more armed. If we are polite to one another the guns don't make it so. If we are impolite to each other well we may be more inclined to settle that with guns than some other places, statistics tell us that. The fear of being shot tends not to make Americans more inclined to be polite in my experience.

But the idea that if 90% of the adults carried guns all the time made us a more polite society well that's wrong on the face of it and is sci-fi.


Quote:
The crime rate in Switzerland is low because the society is homogeneous.
It does not have the many conflicting ethnic and racial groups of the USA.
I have to disagree with these propositions.

Switzerland has never been homogenous. It's been multi-lingual and multi-ethnic since there has been a Switzerland.

Quote:
-Over 60% are descended from the Alamanic German people native to Switzerland (Switzerland had ethnic Germans before Germany existed)
-Around 20% are a Arpitan French people. They originated in Switzerland, and speak Swiss French and Standard French as their native languages.
-over 5% are Ticinese Italians, who speak Lombard dialects.
-1% are Romansh people.

There are also "non-native" minorities, the largest of which are South Slavic peoples (such as Serbs and Croats) and Turks.
and...

Quote:
The four ethnolinguistic groups (Germanic, French, Italian, and Rhaeto-Romansh) that make up the native Swiss population have retained their specific characteristics. Originally, the country was inhabited by Celtic tribes in the west and south and by Rhaetians in the east. With the collapse of Roman rule, Germanic tribes poured in, among them the Alemanni and Burgundians. The Alemanni ultimately became the dominant group, and the present Alemannic vernacular (Schwyzertütsch, or Schweizerdeutsch) is spoken by nearly two-thirds of the total population as their principal language. As of 2002, 65% of the population was German; 18% was French; 10% was Italian; 1% was Romansh; and 6% was comprised of various other groups.

Read more: http://www.nationsencyclopedia.com/E...#ixzz2e8OqabTw
In recent decades that has changed in line with the massive global population shifts of the last 3 decades. My brother was there two years ago and noted the many Eastern European, Italian and North African immigrants who make up a growing sector of the work force in services and industrial jobs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demogra...of_Switzerland

Quote:
Switzerland consistently ranks high on quality of life indices, including per capita income, concentration of computer and internet usage per capita, insurance coverage per individual, and health care rates. For these and many other reasons, such as the four languages, it serves as an excellent test market for businesses hoping to introduce new products into Europe.
Here you also see why the crime rate in Switzerland has been lower for decades (also low in the Nordic countries and for similar reasons) a small population, education, jobs a plenty and an emphasis on people being employed. A center of global finance and industry. There is still class and ethnic conflict of course. Neither concealed carry or open carry of handguns is a norm in Switzerland.

The idea that somehow the crime rate in the U.S. is connected to "conflicting ethnic and racial groups" is also incorrect. Since the barriers of the Jim Crow laws in the U.S. were destroyed there has been less of that conflict than in the past. There is conflict but it has been less and less along ethnic or racial lines.

tipoc
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  #11  
Old 09-06-2013, 01:28 PM
Jim Watson Jim Watson is online now
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Thanks for the history. I had thought Switzers were Switzers.

But... "My brother was there two years ago and noted the many Eastern European, Italian and North African immigrants who make up a growing sector of the work force in services and industrial jobs."

I fear it may not remain so peaceful. Germany and France have let in a lot of foreigners for menial jobs and are paying for it now. So have we, of course.
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Old 09-06-2013, 03:13 PM
Bullseye1911 Bullseye1911 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Watson View Post
"The police of a state should never be stronger or better armed than the citizenry. An armed citizenry, willing to fight, is the foundation of civil freedom."
Which is exactly why our Liar In Chief wants them removed here.

His big plan can never happen as long as we have firearms.

I agree with others, Switzerland does not have as many thugs of several ethnicity as we have here, 1965 turned this country in the wrong direction BIG TIME, although it began years before 1965, but I wont give a history lesson
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Old 09-06-2013, 03:48 PM
raggedwhole! raggedwhole! is offline
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I don't remember where I read it for the life of me but in the twenties & thirties people were more polite because every gentleman had a vest pistol.

As far as European countries go, I love the Czech Republic. I have family there & the whole country is gun friendly. I think it has to do with being occupied by Germany in WW2 &
the Russians forcing them into communism. Both regimes confiscated firearms. In 1996 when communism collapsed they went back to democracy. I actually bought my Uncle a CZ 75 while I was visiting as a gift. You do need a permit to purchase a firearm but it is very easy to obtain. They honored my West Virginia CCW permit to allow me to purchase the firearm. My Uncle has a permit to own select fire rifles & sub guns. He explained it was easy to obtain.
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Old 09-06-2013, 04:15 PM
HT77 HT77 is offline
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Originally Posted by tipoc View Post
I have to disagree with these propositions.

Switzerland has never been homogenous. It's been multi-lingual and multi-ethnic since there has been a Switzerland.


tipoc
Here are the ethnic demographics for Switzerland:
German 65%, French 18%, Italian 10%, Romansch 1%, other 6%

That is extremely homogenous. Sure, lots of people there speak multiple languages but the crime rates are low in Switzerland due to its demographics and that is the same reason they are low in Vermont, their race and ethnic demographics.
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  #15  
Old 09-06-2013, 04:26 PM
zdragon52 zdragon52 is offline
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Originally Posted by raggedwhole! View Post

As far as European countries go, I love the Czech Republic. I have family there & the whole country is gun friendly. I think it has to do with being occupied by Germany in WW2 &
the Russians forcing them into communism. Both regimes confiscated firearms. In 1996 when communism collapsed they went back to democracy. I actually bought my Uncle a CZ 75 while I was visiting as a gift. You do need a permit to purchase a firearm but it is very easy to obtain. They honored my West Virginia CCW permit to allow me to purchase the firearm. My Uncle has a permit to own select fire rifles & sub guns. He explained it was easy to obtain.
That's good info...hopefully they also honor US peace officer IDs.
Prague girls are hot is a plus.

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  #16  
Old 09-07-2013, 11:45 PM
COYOTE165 COYOTE165 is offline
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You forgot to mention that the Swiss are the only Country that ever paid all of the money it owed to the U.S.A.Back to us.
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  #17  
Old 09-08-2013, 12:26 AM
socalmarine socalmarine is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Watson View Post
The crime rate in Switzerland is low because the society is homogeneous.
It does not have the many conflicting ethnic and racial groups of the USA.
Firearms are for the militia and sport, seldom used or even carried for defense.

And the phrase "An armed society is a polite society." is incomplete and misunderstood.
The full quote by the perceptive Mordan Claude is: "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."
In the society of Beyond This Horizon, dueling was legal. Crime not a problem.

A more useful thought might be in another quote from the same book:
"The police of a state should never be stronger or better armed than the citizenry. An armed citizenry, willing to fight, is the foundation of civil freedom."
Bingo!

As an aside, I think education plays a big part in common courtesy and human decency. When people talk about a lack of parenting in the event of criminal act, that is referring to basic education for minors. I get the correlation made with an armed society and a polite society, but I think (this is just my thoughts here) that a well educated society is the key factor. I was at the gun range today, and there were some impolite, and rather unsafe folks to be found. They were all armed. The only common denominator amongst them was these safety and courtesy offenders were all quite dumb, at least what I gathered from observation.

In Afghanistan, I was completely boggled by the inhumane way women were treated and how death could be dished out out so nonchalantly. An Aussie Major with us said you can judge a society by how they treat their women and their animals. The Afghans I saw in Kandahar and Helmand would rate rather low under this criteria. Consider this though, Afghanistan has one of the highest illiteracy rates in the world. Illiteracy is correlated to a host of problems. I have read that over 60% of our inmates are functionally illiterate, and 70% of American inmates cannot read above a 4th grade level.

Anyways, I am rambling here late night on the internets. I guess I am trying to say that a focus should be made on raising future Americans smarter. I will take my future kids hunting and shooting with me, just like my dad did... but their sense of courtesy and human decency will derive from education, and not the gun on their hip or fear of another man's gun.

Also, I want to mention another thing as I drift off topic. I have two neighbors, a married couple, who are Afghani. Both are doctors and have recently opened their own clinic. They are the nicest people you could meet, and I think very highly of them. They value education and embrace the good values America was founded upon.
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Old 09-08-2013, 06:31 AM
1911rocks 1911rocks is offline
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Their Ammo?

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Originally Posted by AZ Husker View Post
Where were those girls when I was a kid? And where do they carry their ammo?
That's where a young man/boy friend comes in.
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Old 09-08-2013, 06:34 AM
1911rocks 1911rocks is offline
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The most succinct concise post I've seen in a long time!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Watson View Post
The crime rate in Switzerland is low because the society is homogeneous.
It does not have the many conflicting ethnic and racial groups of the USA.
Firearms are for the militia and sport, seldom used or even carried for defense.

And the phrase "An armed society is a polite society." is incomplete and misunderstood.
The full quote by the perceptive Mordan Claude is: "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."
In the society of Beyond This Horizon, dueling was legal. Crime not a problem.

A more useful thought might be in another quote from the same book:
"The police of a state should never be stronger or better armed than the citizenry. An armed citizenry, willing to fight, is the foundation of civil freedom."
My compliments sir. Anything beyond this is noise.
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Old 09-08-2013, 11:55 AM
USMM guy USMM guy is online now
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You forgot about Finland.

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Originally Posted by COYOTE165 View Post
You forgot to mention that the Swiss are the only Country that ever paid all of the money it owed to the U.S.A.Back to us.
Just saying
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  #21  
Old 09-08-2013, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tipoc View Post
I have to disagree with a couple of propositions made here. The first is the Sci-Fi author's dictum that "An armed society is a polite society".

This statement is clearly wrong. It comes of course from a Sci-Fi author and was made in a sci-fi book so he was not bound in any way to base his dictum on anything in the real world, past or present. We in the U.S. are about as armed a society as you can get these days across the board that is. Parts of Syria or Mexico may be exceptions but even there, as a whole we here are more armed. If we are polite to one another the guns don't make it so. If we are impolite to each other well we may be more inclined to settle that with guns than some other places, statistics tell us that. The fear of being shot tends not to make Americans more inclined to be polite in my experience.

But the idea that if 90% of the adults carried guns all the time made us a more polite society well that's wrong on the face of it and is sci-fi.




I have to disagree with these propositions.

Switzerland has never been homogenous. It's been multi-lingual and multi-ethnic since there has been a Switzerland.



and...



In recent decades that has changed in line with the massive global population shifts of the last 3 decades. My brother was there two years ago and noted the many Eastern European, Italian and North African immigrants who make up a growing sector of the work force in services and industrial jobs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demogra...of_Switzerland



Here you also see why the crime rate in Switzerland has been lower for decades (also low in the Nordic countries and for similar reasons) a small population, education, jobs a plenty and an emphasis on people being employed. A center of global finance and industry. There is still class and ethnic conflict of course. Neither concealed carry or open carry of handguns is a norm in Switzerland.

The idea that somehow the crime rate in the U.S. is connected to "conflicting ethnic and racial groups" is also incorrect. Since the barriers of the Jim Crow laws in the U.S. were destroyed there has been less of that conflict than in the past. There is conflict but it has been less and less along ethnic or racial lines.

tipoc
i agree much more with this post about the low crime rate in Swiss-land than the homogeneous notion from Jim...It makes much more scense considering most crime is statistically black on black in our USA - so homegenuity as a way to "peace" dosn't hold water.

I would like to hear about the Swiss peoples value system, if anyone knows. -- I think there may be more hints in this dimension as to why crime is so low in the Mountains.
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Last edited by combat auto; 09-08-2013 at 03:01 PM.
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Old 09-14-2013, 11:10 AM
zdragon52 zdragon52 is offline
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  #23  
Old 09-14-2013, 03:45 PM
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That says it all...Were was that taken?
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Old 09-14-2013, 11:34 PM
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The photo shows an armed demonstration of women in the city of Juarez Mexico against the sexual assaults of women on the night shifts to the factories (maquiladoras) on the outskirts of town. A woman, or women has taken to killing bus drivers on the night shift in retaliation.



http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/w...iller/2756235/

tipoc

Last edited by tipoc; 09-14-2013 at 11:38 PM.
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