1945 Colt 1911a1

[clsc]

I hardly ever see a 1945 Colt 1911a1 (block style serial numbers, Parko-Lubrite finish) mentioned or pictured on this forum. Why is that? Are they rare or are they just not very interesting and collectible? I'm a beginning collector so maybe some of the more experienced collectors on this site can answer those questions for me. Thanks.

[dsk]

I think they're just somewhat rare. I know that John Holbrook has a beautiful one that he shows off often (saved his own butt with it in 'Nam as well). Aside from that one however I rarely ever see them as well.

[vette]

They are uncommon as I have only had a shot at one. It was nice, and $3500. I bought a transition from the same collection for a bit less, but it is only 75%ish. I like a transition better, even with the condition difference.

[oldcanuck]

Although somewhat scarce, they are still out there.... I don't consider them rare, with the exception of the elusive 'JSB'. I have 3 or 4 variants in my collection from 1945.

[mpd1978]

My guess is that most of the 1945 produced guns didn't make out of the supply system and into the troops hands hence the reason we don't see them. Most of the ww2 bring backs 1911's are earlier guns. I have seen the same thing with m1 carbines, the late 44-45 guns are rarely seen in original condition from vets estate. Pictures of ww2 troops are basically void of the late carbines, if we could see pics of the 1911's I bet there wouldn't be many late ones either.

[dsk]

It seems every time I find a picture of a GI during Word War Two it's actually an old WW1-era M1911 in his hands or holster. Given the huge buildup of weapons and equipment in the Pacific immediately prior to the planned invasion of Japan, it wouldn't surprise me if crates of brand-new M1911A1 pistols ended up being buried or tossed in the ocean after the end of the war like so many other things.

[Caferacer]

they found the Titanic, now lets get busy looking for those crates of brand new 1911A1's and M1 carbines!

[dsk]

You probably wouldn't want them by now. Even Cosmolene isn't that good at protecting steel.

[pburr]

Here is my 1945 posted on the picture thread. The frame is Parco-Lubrite and the slide might be parkerized but not sure. There is a slight difference in hue between the two that is more visible on personal inspection. The bullet ramp on the frame is FINISHED, the way it should be on a Lubrite frame.

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthre...=155162&page=9

Here is a link to a closed auction showing a later 1945 I wished I had tried to acquire. The frame is parkerized, but the slide on this one might have been Parko'd. I wanted this one because it shows the change in heat treating compared to my earlier one. Colt moved the heat treatment further back on the slide and also changed the treatment for the hold open and assembly notches. I want an example of both styles for the year.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=312815991

[Scott Wilson]

Here is a link to a Jouster discussion on this very topic.
http://www.jouster.com/forums/showth...all-1945-Colts!

[clsc]

Thanks to all. The responses have been very helpful.

[Ed P]

The last time I talked to Chuck Clawson a few years back he only had 14 JSB's on his list...

[dsk]

That's actually doing pretty good. My (outdated) info was that there were only a half-dozen known examples.

[mpd1978]

Wasnt it determined that the slides and frames that appear to have a different finish were actually both parko lubrited, it was just that the surface prep was different causing that appearance. For a short time the frames were still being blasted while the slides weren't.

[JoeMiner]

Check this one out:

http://shop.pre98.com/product.sc?pro...&categoryId=19

[mpd1978]

Originally Posted by JoeMiner

Check this one out:

http://shop.pre98.com/product.sc?pro...&categoryId=19

Wonder why it has the wrong trigger?

[billybandholz]

But claims " THIS PISTOLS IS 100% CORRECT AS PER MEADOWS AND CLAWSON".

[pburr]

That would be a good pistol for this thread:

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=388784

The milled trigger is obviously not correct and since the seller went out of his way to point out the gun as 100% and then throw out Clawson's name as the reference, he is:
A) Trying to be deceitful.
B) Lazy and didnt even bother to check all the parts against said reference.
C) Is very aware of Clawson's work and just threw it out to impress and sooth the curiosity of potential buyers who are looking for original pieces.

[clsc]

Looks pretty nice otherwise.

[1919]

This one is a good example of a major problem I see with "collecting" 1911's. For the sake of discussion, let's say a 1911 gun, produced in 1917, is 100% except for the trigger, let's even say it has provenence paperwork that is irrefutalbable (doubt any of them ever have being gov owned at one time).
It sells and then sells two more times with this trigger--then the 3rd buyer "makes it right" by installing a period correct (NOS in car restorer terms) trigger assembly.
A fourth buyer inspecting the gun and paperwork would not be able to tell that had been accomplished so he now thinks he has a 100% original gun and who could prove different? Would it be a 100% gun? I would think not since it has a replacement--albeit stock--trigger.
Without serialized parts tracking can anyone explain to me how ANY 1911 that went thru government contract and ownership can be called 100% off the production line original?

[vette]

I do not think that that is a military milled trigger. I am not sure what that thing is. Very odd trigger IMO.

[billybandholz]

1919, excellent point. I have mulled this over before, too. That's the difference between buying a 100% "correct" gun and a 100% "original" gun. You can always be sure when you're getting "correct", but how certain can you be about "original" ? But hey, if you can afford it, buy "original" !

Hill536 posted this in another thread, I think it applies somewhat:

" Mixed guns have been the backbone of the United States Military for two world wars and three conflicts.

Mixed guns were encouraged by the US government from the onset when interchangeability tests were ordered.

Mixed guns used in actual combat have a heritage all thier own. Would anyone think about taking a documented pistol from Iwo Jima, Saipan, Normandy, Chosin, Hue City or the Battle of the Bulge and changing out the slide, barrel or grips to make it correct!

Undocumented "mutt" guns are just that. Changing out parts and making the pistol "original" is just kidding yourself. Or down the road "fooling someone else" in making them think they have something original. From that point on, it is not about collecting. It's about increasing the value of the pistol and either making money or earning "BS" bragging rights".

[Milsurp Collector]

Originally Posted by 1919

Without serialized parts tracking can anyone explain to me how ANY 1911 that went thru government contract and ownership can be called 100% off the production line original?

If USGI parts of the correct type and finish are used, you can't tell if a part has been replaced. But on the other hand, if no one can tell the difference, does it matter?

[dsk]

A sharp-eyed collector will try to match wear patterns of the parts. But yes, sometimes it ain't easy.