Reloading 12 ga... dumb question

[error404]

Someone left me a Saiga 12 (first shotgun)...

I went to the range to try it out and I couldn't stop wondering if those plastic shells were reloadable!? (or once shot, you need to buy new ones)

[ClarkEMyers]

Substantially all - and certainly the popular Winchester and Reminton - are indeed reloadable. Shell and wad must be matched to each other and to the load so a little planning and foresight is necessary. Although shotshells are low pressure so are shotguns making it necessary to follow loading recipes exactly as printed.

[maf]

Originally Posted by ClarkEMyers

Substantially all - and certainly the popular Winchester and Reminton - are indeed reloadable. Shell and wad must be matched to each other and to the load so a little planning and foresight is necessary. Although shotshells are low pressure so are shotguns making it necessary to follow loading recipes exactly as printed.

The primer and type of powder will also make a huge difference, not just the shell and wad. Many years ago my father picked up a ton of the old all plastic Activ shells (empties). Not thinking, he loaded them with the same components as his Winchester AAs. Needless to say, they made a lot of pressure. It was like shooting three inch magnum slugs!

[TexBiker]

I reload about 40k 12ga shells a year. The price of lead has really increased the cost in the past few years, but it's still a big savings over factory ammo if you shoot a lot of trap/skeet/SC.

[Don2]

Originally Posted by ClarkEMyers

Substantially all - and certainly the popular Winchester and Reminton - are indeed reloadable. Shell and wad must be matched to each other and to the load so a little planning and foresight is necessary. Although shotshells are low pressure so are shotguns making it necessary to follow loading recipes exactly as printed.

Exactly error404....may I add that as a new shotshell reloader, you should follow only shotshell reloading manuals and powder company load data.
Some of that changes with experience.

Don't want to have any error404's do we? We'd like you to be FOUND

Don2

[BYJO4]

With the cost of lead, the amount you shoot will dictate if reloading 12 GA is worth the time and cost of equipment. You can find specials on 12 Ga on a regular basis. If you shoot alot like I do, reloading saves money. You save even more of the smaller guages.

[erikk]

BTW the only "Dumb" question is the one that you don't ask

[LMS]

I shoot a lot of trap, and I am around a lot of guys that reload. Remington STS hulls are widely recognized as the best for reloading (and I get 5 cents each for the empty ones I sell, and it adds up - I have 7500 for sale right now...). Plenty of folks won't reload anything but that. Remington Gun Clubs reload well too. Some guys will still reload Win AA, but there are a lot that won't do that anymore due to the problems they have with them. There are also some people that will reload anything that falls on the ground, but those are the guys that are on the line having all kinds of troubles with their shells. Some hulls just don't reload for shit.

Unless you have the equipment already, you have to shoot and reload A LOT to make it economically smart (it's not like bullets). Also, if you watch for the shell sales and rebates and free shipping offers, you can do as good or sometimes better than buying components yourself. Example - Bass Pro just had Rem Gun Clubs on sale for 4.98 a box with free shipping. You'd be hard pressed to load something as good and do it significantly cheaper.

On the other hand, lots of guys that do it love it for the act itself (not solely about trying to save money). They say it's relaxing and rewarding. I just don't have time but I don't fault them.

So, I'd suggest learning a lot about reloading, pick a hull you want to try on from the above list, and stick with that while you're figuring it all out. But really do the math (including your time) before you jump in.


LMS

[ClarkEMyers]

My own observation over the years is that a pure trap shooter who can do it is well advised to buy factory ammo by the pallet and sell the hulls as mentioned above. For folks that like to reload and have the equipment Spolar say they can buy lead by the pallet and make out ok but why bother?

For a serious hunter than matching the load to the game in small batch reloading is fun and justifies buying some equipment. With that start then reloading may make sense some years and not others depending on market prices and lifestyle.

[NewtoSkeet]

I'm one of those different drummer types who likes to shoot skeet with a 28 gauge and there is a huge savings reloading them; you never find 28 gauge on sale. Three things; (1) as pointed out, use a powder company published "recipe" of hull/primer/powder/wad/and shot weight - changing any of these can cause unpredictable results, (2) also as pointed out, Remington STS or Gun Club, and Winchester AAs are the most reloadable,loss leader hulls are harder to recrimp and start splitting after 2-3 reloads, and (3) as much as I'll defend my Lee loaders for metallic, do not buy their shotshell loader, do yourself a favor and get a MEC - the 600 JR can be found for less than $120.

[TexBiker]

Originally Posted by ClarkEMyers

My own observation over the years is that a pure trap shooter who can do it is well advised to buy factory ammo by the pallet and sell the hulls as mentioned above.

That math only works if you're using the price of pallets of cheap (and often inconsistant) target loads and find someone who wants to buy those hulls. Compare the cost of a pallet of premium Winchester AA to the cost of reloading comparable and often better target loads, and the cost savings are quite substantial.

Locally, with a club discount, I can get a pallet of Win AA at ~$8.48/box. My reloads are currently costing me ~$4.38/box. That saves me over $6500/year.

I can buy a pallet of cheap Rio target loads for ~$4.75/box, but they don't have near the quality and no one will buy the hulls.

[ClarkEMyers]

Don't doubt it - my experience is decades old and was true then and may be again if not now. I do wonder about making better loads I sure thought I was no more than matching the factory shells and I'm still using up the 452 I bought in bulk back when. Mostly the difference I've seen is shot - loading copper big shot for pheasants that flushed wild but didn't make a difference on clay birds.

[Snapdragon]

The trick to reloading shotgun shells is getting the components assembled that fit together in a recipe you find in a reputable source. There are very many different cases, wads, powders, and primers that may not interchange with each other. It is not as simple as saying that you just use so many grains of Red Dot with 1 1/8 ounces of shot. Once you get the recipe set up and your press adjusted, it is a piece of cake.

Some cases reload better than others. I really like the one-piece cases such as the Remington ones mentioned above. I have a whole bunch of Rem Gun Club cases that I use over and over again. The old Winchester AA cases were one-piece, but the new ones are not. You can reload the one-piece cases until the primers get loose or the mouths split. I have a friend who has used the same 28 gauge cases for years.

[Capt. Methane]

Originally Posted by TexBiker

I reload about 40k 12ga shells a year.

Dang, you on the Olympic Team?

I helped someone get started reloading for rifle quite some time ago who had been reloading shotshells and it was kind of interesting. Some things relate-at least in principle, some don't...

Someday I might reload some for shotgun and it's good to see a thread here about it!

[LMS]

Originally Posted by TexBiker

Locally, with a club discount, I can get a pallet of Win AA at ~$8.48/box. My reloads are currently costing me ~$4.38/box.

Man, 8.48 a box is steep. My LGS sells them for just under $80 a flat (10 boxes), and Winchester was running a $20/flat rebate, so that brings them down to just under $6 a box. When those rebates hit, I buy a boatload of shells.

When Remington was running the rebates (they stopped this year), they were even a better deal, since I can sell the hulls for a buck a box, so it brings them down to just under $5. Tough to beat that.

But, if you like to load and the numbers work for you (looks like they do), can't blame you for doing it. It's just not worth it for me right now.


LMS

[TexBiker]

Originally Posted by Capt. Methane

Dang, you on the Olympic Team?

Nope, those guys shoot a lot more than me. I'm a trap/skeet coach for the local 4H club. I generally shoot 4-5 rounds of trap every morning and a few rounds of skeet every weekend. Next weekend, we're having a trap clinic where four kids and myself will go through ~1200rds each in 2.5 days. It adds up in a hurry.

Originally Posted by LMS

Man, 8.48 a box is steep. My LGS sells them for just under $80 a flat (10 boxes), and Winchester was running a $20/flat rebate, so that brings them down to just under $6 a box. When those rebates hit, I buy a boatload of shells.

I haven't seen AA that cheap around here in YEARS. I did buy some for my students during the rebate period though. Most of them can barely afford the cheap stuff, so I try to help them out, especially when tournaments are coming. I'm not allowed to let them shoot my reloads, not that I'd allow them to do it anyway.