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  #1  
Old 07-07-2012, 05:59 AM
cdiago cdiago is offline
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sig Ultra Nitron vs Colt TALO New Agent




I am in the market for a conceal 1911 pistol and was ready to get the NA until I saw the Ultra Nitron. Seems that for the same $ I can more things that I want like front strap checkering and beavertail safety grips!
How well are they made and where are they made(Germany)? Any issues that I should be aware of? Seems like a no brainer. I own a Colt have have no complaints but I also dont just want to buy because its a Colt.

Last edited by cdiago; 07-07-2012 at 06:37 AM.
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  #2  
Old 07-07-2012, 08:18 AM
cdiago cdiago is offline
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Anyone?
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  #3  
Old 07-07-2012, 07:32 PM
SmurfHunter SmurfHunter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdiago View Post
I am in the market for a conceal 1911 pistol and was ready to get the NA until I saw the Ultra Nitron. Seems that for the same $ I can more things that I want like front strap checkering and beavertail safety grips!
How well are they made and where are they made(Germany)? Any issues that I should be aware of? Seems like a no brainer. I own a Colt have have no complaints but I also dont just want to buy because its a Colt.
Get the Sig. Better gun. Less mim parts. And it's made in the USA.
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  #4  
Old 07-08-2012, 06:22 AM
cdiago cdiago is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmurfHunter View Post
Get the Sig. Better gun. Less mim parts. And it's made in the USA.
Thanks, I think you are right. Reviews look good, do you know if the plunger tube is still/or was an issue? I assume Sig has corrected.
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  #5  
Old 07-08-2012, 03:45 PM
SmurfHunter SmurfHunter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdiago View Post
Thanks, I think you are right. Reviews look good, do you know if the plunger tube is still/or was an issue? I assume Sig has corrected.
No issues on any of my sigs.
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  #6  
Old 07-09-2012, 12:35 PM
taloinc taloinc is offline
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Sig = Cast Frame

Correct me if I'm wrong.
More mim parts in a Sig.

but who's counting?
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  #7  
Old 07-09-2012, 01:04 PM
SmurfHunter SmurfHunter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taloinc View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong.
More mim parts in a Sig.

but who's counting?
Nope. Here's a list of the colt mim parts

Magazine Catch, Mag Catch Lock, Sear, Disconnector

Some have said the Extracters are also. So that would make 5 parts at a min.
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  #8  
Old 07-09-2012, 07:59 PM
UrbanSI UrbanSI is offline
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I have looked at the new agent multiple times and never found anything that appealing for the price point. The idea of the trench sights really limits the use of the gun for me. If you want to compare it correctly you need to find another true 3" gun as the Sig is a 3.5".

If I had to go with a Colt in the 3" frame it would be the defender. If I did end up buying a 3" 1911 based pistol I would take a hard hard look at what Springfield offers. Their micro series pistols are very appealing with all the right features including Springfield's warranty.

A few others to consider.
Dan Wesson ECO
Sti spartan 3.0
Smith and Wesson pro series
and I hate to admit it, Kimber
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  #9  
Old 07-10-2012, 05:55 AM
cdiago cdiago is offline
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Thanks for the suggestions, most other than the Spartan were over my budget +1000. Looking to stay in the 800-1000 range. The Sig Ultra just seems more attractive to me with great extras. Colt NA just looks too bland, my Government model wowed me but the NA just doesn't. I am counting on SIG being reliable as a carry piece.
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  #10  
Old 07-10-2012, 03:00 PM
taloinc taloinc is offline
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Mim parts Sig vs Colt

The sample Sig I have here has the following MIM parts, as best I can tell;
Slide Stop
External Extractor
Mag Catch
Sear
Disconnector

Thumb Safety looks cast
Grip Safety - cast
Receiver - cast

Colt MIM parts are;
Mag Catch
Sear
Disconnector
Grip Safety on some models, (upswept)

Castings;
Thumb Safety
Grip Safety - Standard models
Hammer - Anniversary Models only - Wide Spur

Forgings;
Slide Stop
Barrel
Receiver, including aluminum
Slide
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  #11  
Old 07-27-2012, 03:48 PM
Fitz USMC Fitz USMC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdiago View Post
I am in the market for a conceal 1911 pistol and was ready to get the NA until I saw the Ultra Nitron. Seems that for the same $ I can more things that I want like front strap checkering and beavertail safety grips!
How well are they made and where are they made(Germany)? Any issues that I should be aware of? Seems like a no brainer. I own a Colt have have no complaints but I also dont just want to buy because its a Colt.
CDIAGO, I have the Ultra Nitron. I have only put about 400 rounds through it. I have had some failures to extract but I still have to figure out if it is the gun or a loose grip. My LGS said that if it turns out to be the gun they would send it in to Sig Sauer for me and they should be able to take care of it. I'm waiting for over the 500 round mark before I make that decision.
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  #12  
Old 07-27-2012, 04:19 PM
jeepman1320 jeepman1320 is offline
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taloinc, where did you find this information? I was told by Sig that their frames and slides are forged and I was also told by Sig that the only MIM parts is the disconnector, slide stop, thumb safety, and grip safety. This is on a Sig 1911 Extreme, so I guess it could vary. I have already replaced the disconnector and slide stop with Wilson parts.
Clay
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  #13  
Old 07-27-2012, 06:20 PM
Trikegodtroll Trikegodtroll is offline
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1-Magazine Catch
2-Slide Stop
3-Ejector
4-Thumb Safety
5-Disconnector
6-Firing Pin Stop
7-Grip Safety
Then I just saw a recoil spring guide rod out of a XO that was mim.
......................
I'd like to pull the extractor out and see the inside portion of the piece... I spy a dang circle inside there. Just suspect ....for now.
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  #14  
Old 07-27-2012, 10:20 PM
smithrb smithrb is offline
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I agree with jeepman. I have the sig ultra two tone. Sig says forged slide and frame. List of mim parts agrees too. Don't really care tho becuase I don't buy into all the concerns for mim parts-- especially as used by sig. Almost 1000 rds thru mine, not even a hint of an issue. Added vz blk/gry operator II grips and bought a couple of stainles 8rd mccormick mags and added the x-grip pinky extension to make it match my sig p238 w ext 7rd mags. love this pistol, smooth as butter.
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  #15  
Old 07-27-2012, 10:56 PM
MDI Weapon MDI Weapon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smithrb View Post
Don't really care tho becuase I don't buy into all the concerns for mim parts
Not trying to pick on the Sig (as the P220 is one of my favorite .45s and I have a lot of respect for their designs and quality control) but no one buys into the concern for MIM parts until a few that were solid for 200 or 500 or 1000 rounds snap without any warning whatsoever and leave you in a situation that would amount to a permanent dirt nap if it happened during a serious situation. Been there, done that.

Any MIM part I can find on a factory MIM list gets replaced -- if I strongly suspect it is MIM and it isn't on the factory list I still replace it with something that has the words "CNC machined", "Cut from solid bar stock after heat treating", "forged" or the like --- if it is from a company that I have learned that I can actually trust with my ass and all of it's associated fixtures, "hardcore" or "bulletproof" might be close enough.

I don't care what company makes it, how many rounds the part has survived, etc. etc. -- not having to worry about a critical failure at a critical moment is worth more than the cost of a few damn-close-to-unbreakable machined, forged, bulletproof and/or hardcore parts. I'd feel like a complete idiot getting rolled into the ER with a bullet in me if my pistol failed because I went with a company that used MIM crap to save a production buck or, even worse, if I knew the MIM parts were in my gun and I did not replace them just to save a few bucks.

Just take a look at the parts that several companies throw into the "safe for MIM" category: magazine catch, slide stop, ejector, thumb safety, disconnector, firing pin stop. Hmmm...none of those are critical? You get into a self defense situation at the local convenience store at midnight and:
1. mag catch snaps - your mag drops out and you have one round in the chamber. Good luck with your single shooter.
2. slide stop, ejector, thumb safety, disconnector, FP stop, - all worse than a broken mag catch. pull any of the above out of your 1911 and see how many rounds you can get down range. The only one that might not cause horrific and complete failure (and it would be a matter of luck) would be the thumb safety. However, depending on where it snapped, the broken parts from a thumb safety could very easily block the sear making it impossible to fire the pistol.
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  #16  
Old 07-27-2012, 11:15 PM
UrbanSI UrbanSI is offline
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Do you only buy cars with forged pistons? Under what you just said, you would need to tear the engine down and replace them as you could get stranded in the middle of no where do to a catastrophic failure.

I have heard that the process of MIM parts being produced varies in production quality solely on how the manufacturer creates the specific part. I have also come to the conclusion that some manufacturers like to label their products as "bullet proof" to sell parts...kinda like "tacticool" and in the car world "after market"

For every 1 picture of a broken MIM part on the internet, there are 1,000,000 of the same still up and running (caution, the previous sentence/s contains a/an exaggeration/s)
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Last edited by UrbanSI; 07-27-2012 at 11:17 PM.
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  #17  
Old 07-28-2012, 05:12 PM
MDI Weapon MDI Weapon is offline
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Comparing a car to a carry pistol is possibly the worst analogy argument in the history of man and dog. In any event, that argument fails on another point...my car actually has pistons which were crafted from 2618-T61 SRS forged aluminum. It is a fairly serious go fast toy.

The "bulletproof" or "hardcore" parts I use in my pistols are ones that I have verified are not MIM. When top tier custom 1911 parts manufacturers will verify in writing that none of their parts are MIM, that is not just marketing hype.

Furthermore, Ed Brown seems to agree that MIM sucks:
"Do Ed Brown handguns have any MIM (metal injection molded) parts?

No, we use no MIM parts in Ed Brown firearms. While the current thinking is that MIM parts are "good enough" for firearm applications, this thinking doesn't fit with our philosophy at all."

I'll stick with Ed's philosophy when it comes to gun parts as I am fairly sure he knows what he is doing when he avoids the use of any MIM parts in his firearms. If you want to use MIM, have at it - I seriously hope your pistol doesn't break when you really need it work correctly.
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  #18  
Old 07-28-2012, 07:40 PM
Trikegodtroll Trikegodtroll is offline
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Seize the Night;
Good grief man, please supply your documentation of known catastrophic Sig MIM 1911 part failures. If not, its just your opinion. All were hearing is "the sky is falling" rhetoric. I want to see the "snapped mag catch", or any other late model Sig 1911 component..lol
Like UrbanSI said; MIM parts being produced varies in production quality solely on how the manufacturer creates the specific part.
Sig builds a bad ass 1911. Its has high quality manufactured components and first rate support.
Then compared to a Ed Brown, well it isnt. Its a $800 pistola that works great.
I'm with you on forged components. If you want to add them, great. If you want them exclusively in a 1911. Step up and purchase a different brand.
Welcome to the Sig area and enjoy your ATI.
Best wishs from a fellow 1911 enthusiast................................. Troll
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  #19  
Old 07-29-2012, 12:49 AM
MDI Weapon MDI Weapon is offline
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lol - the ATI is my kick around pistol -- I bought it just to play around with. My carry Commander (about to add a pic of it to the 1911 pic thread if I can find the flash diffuser) is a customized Colt from circa '94 - no MIM parts - most certainly none by the time I was finished with it. It is a nice mix of Brown, Wilson, Cylinder & Slide and Nowlin components. For that matter, I have seven 1911 design pistols and there are no MIM parts in any of them. My current pistol collection is about 20 (10 of which are over $2k after custom work and parts) including Sig, Beretta, Colt, Para, Kahr, Ruger, S&W, etc. If you want a shoot off, I'll gladly put my $3.5k custom Colt Commander up against your Sig in a Ransom Rest or any other type of machine that tests the full ability of pistols against other pistols. I assure you, I already know which one will win. Okay, that is unfair - I have a modded $1,250 Brolin Pro-Stock that will kick the crap out of any production Sig 1911 if you want to use it for comparison instead (it holds tighter 5 shot groups at 50 than every LBC premier II I have tried against it - I got really lucky on that one)

However, I am not trying to knock Sig at all as they are one of my favorite firearms companies. My W. Germany P220 (modified) is one of my favorite carry guns. Also, most of the larger firearms manufacturers use MIM parts under the theory that they are "good enough". If anything, I am knocking the "good enough" philosophy. Good enough is an approach for workout t-shirts and shoes to wear while mowing the front lawn -- not for carry pistols for serious work. If you start with a Sig 1911, it takes what? maybe $150 to $200 at most to replace all the MIM with forged? That is a small price to pay for something on the verge of failsafe parts. If you can scrape together the cash for a Sig, adding the parts here and there is not that much of a financial strain. Also, I realize the use of MIM parts makes the pistols more affordable for most -- I most certainly do not want to imply that the least expensive pistol on the market should be something in the range of $2500. However, I think that anyone with any sense would conclude that if they are using a pistol as a defensive firearm it could likely be a situation that would very well be the difference between going home later or going to the morgue. Granted, maybe I am a bit of an extremist but it is an occupational hazard -- I deal with hostile psychopaths five days of the week...maybe if you are not in those shoes, buying gun parts made out of candy wax at Walmart sounds like a deal.
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  #20  
Old 07-29-2012, 06:05 AM
Glenn-SC Glenn-SC is offline
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You still haven't provided any "proof" that MIM parts fail at a rate faster than non-MIM parts.
If it is your opinion that's fine, but it is just an opinion, no matter how loudly you scream it.
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  #21  
Old 07-29-2012, 12:36 PM
Onegoodshot Onegoodshot is offline
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Google Search Bill Wilson, and Wilson Combat, along with MIM..nothing wrong with QUALITY MIM.
Bill Wilson contributed concept of external extractor in the Sig 1911.
Sig Ultra IMO is better weapon than the Colt.

IMO, Colt is largely responsible for the reputation of Micro 1911's being unreliable. They were the first, its taken some years to get it right.
Owner Polls for Kimber Ultra pistols has shown them to be reliable.
Kimber began using ramped Bull barrels, double spring recoil, and Alloy frames
under the heavier steel sides, to correct some of the timing issues.

I believe Sig "got it right" with Ultra pistols. Most threads and posts, owners are very pleased.

The shooter, or the magazine, or the ammo, will fail, before the MIM will fail.

If you can manage a Dan Wesson ECO, that is the one to get. Spend $$$ on the carry weapon, save on a range weapon, or camping gun.

Last edited by Onegoodshot; 07-29-2012 at 12:45 PM.
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