1911Forum
Forum   Reviews   Rules   Legal   Site Supporters & Donations   Advertise


Go Back   1911Forum > Applications > Tactics & Personal Defense


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #26  
Old 07-04-2012, 07:50 PM
Mr. T Mr. T is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,706



Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkEdwards View Post
I drink, but I have only been drunk twice - ten years apart. The second time reminded why there had only been one other time.

I do think it would be a good idea to have an actual sit-down thinking and planning session about how to react in various situations, including being drunk - having something planned out that you might stick to beats having nothing planned out at all.
Planning is good, but if someone has enough alcohol in their system to alter their thought process, the plan will go right out the window.
__________________
Mr. T
Be sure you're right, then go ahead!
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 07-04-2012, 08:45 PM
Red Dirt Dave Red Dirt Dave is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: OOOOOklahoma!
Age: 61
Posts: 1,849
"I like strong drink - its taste, and its effects - and that is why I never drink it."
Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson
__________________
"If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men. Romans 12:18
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 07-05-2012, 09:37 AM
higgy1911 higgy1911 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Ky
Posts: 533
It is an interesting topic. And someone made a very good point about alcohol's influence being comparable to that of pain killers and sound sleep.

With myself I have found this to be very true. I'm a sound sleeper. And regaining awareness and other mental functions is very difficult for me. Much more difficult then functioning with a few drinks in me.

I don't like being hammered, but I do like to drink. Beer on hot summer nights, good whiskey before and after a good meal.

Almost everything we do puts us at risk, leaviog the house is riskier than staying in it. Drinking is riskier than not drinking. But drinking in moderation is risky to a small enough degree that it needn't be abstained from for the sake of that risk. Drunkeness is perhaps a different story.

I don't have to drink to enjoy myself, as one poster said. But I do have to drink to enjoy drinking. I think the disadvantage this might put me at is slight, and I have no desire to have my personal habits dictated to me by the behavior of the criminal element. I will be myself, and deal with them to the best of my ability.
__________________
"The world's black and white, good and bad, no matter what you hear.
The people who say it isn't have already chosen black"
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 07-05-2012, 04:11 PM
Sledzep01 Sledzep01 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,278
When you said...
"The person knocking was there with ill intent (and had people with him)."
That made it self defense no matter how drunk the guy was.
If this were my house and I was cut I would not have been the only one injured.
There is no way to pin any escalation on the homeowner in my opinion unless the group at the door started to walk away...

Sled
__________________
Sledzep
Cotep # CBOB0343

"Familiarity Breeds Comfort"
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 07-05-2012, 04:16 PM
BoulderTroll BoulderTroll is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Central CA
Posts: 1,887
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sledzep01 View Post
When you said...
"The person knocking was there with ill intent (and had people with him)."
That made it self defense no matter how drunk the guy was.
If this were my house and I was cut I would not have been the only one injured.
There is no way to pin any escalation on the homeowner in my opinion unless the group at the door started to walk away...

Sled
As I said, I intentionally left details out, since my goal wasn't to see if he was justified in arming himself (as I said, he was). But since you mentioned it, at one point the group DID start walking away. But that's neither here nor there. Like most incidents of this nature, real life has a way of being convoluted and not nearly as cut and dried as imagined scenarios. The classic home defence scenario is "violent bad guys break into my home and I zap them." You often hear quotes on forums like, "If a guy comes into my house uninvited at 3AM he's getting a load of 00 buckshot.", etc. In reality, many times that a person goes into someone else's home in the middle of the night uninvited it would be pretty darn tragic if it became a shoot scenario. I can't tell you how often a "burglar" ends up being your very drunk next door neighbor that thinks he's breaking into his own house after loosing the keys.

One of the reasons I left out details is because I didn't want to get bogged down in the "right and wrong" of it, since that isn't why I brought it up. The other reason I didn't go into too much detail is that the narrative portion of my report was 4 pages long, and only covered a small portion of the incident...Not to mention the fact that the case is still under investigation. Describing a crime in its entirety may have been interesting to some and insanely boring to many. But really the biggest reason is that the details are not the purpose for me bringing the topic up. Intoxicants and how they figure into home defence is why I brought it up.
__________________
Broadsword calling Danny Boy, Over!

Last edited by BoulderTroll; 07-05-2012 at 04:37 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 07-05-2012, 08:10 PM
Thorgrim Thorgrim is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: "Upper East" Tennessee
Age: 62
Posts: 662
Good post! It's certainly something to think about. However, I'm not a soldier nor LEO, so I do drink moderately at times. Fortunately I now live in a very peaceful neighborhood where all the neighbors have dogs (and no fences nor leash laws). Once upon a time (as I described in another thread) I wouldn't have dared drink a drop because some kind of disaster was possible at any minute - however, I had the lot fenced, two GS dogs, one of them well trained, and I probably could have imbibed ... but I did rarely, and only in extreme moderation.

I suppose it depends a lot on the situation. I don't want to have to stay wound so damned tight (and I've had mostly jobs that will do that to you) that I couldn't relax with friends, whether that involved a couple of beers (and I do mean just two, officer, even though everyone tells you that) or a couple of glasses of wine. When I've found myself in such circumstances I started immediately figuring out how to extract myself from them.

In the end you have to decide whether where you live is worth the mental price you pay for being there, and adjust accordingly. Drinking in moderation comes in second place to that.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 07-05-2012, 08:41 PM
acroman acroman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Southeast,Fl.
Posts: 154
*** ?

Are you using us for your college thesis ?
Leaving the whole scenario out.......please.

When in a bar and insulted,tempers escalate.When at home blow the crap out of em.
How about that junior

Last edited by dsk; 07-06-2012 at 12:24 AM. Reason: language
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 07-05-2012, 10:35 PM
BoulderTroll BoulderTroll is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Central CA
Posts: 1,887
Quote:
Originally Posted by acroman View Post
Are you using us for your college thesis ?
Leaving the whole scenario out.......please.

When in a bar and insulted,tempers escalate.When at home blow the crap out of em.
How about that junior
Holy snide remarks Batman! Step away from the caffeine and nobody will get hurt. I didn't provide a "scenario" for evaluation. Sorry that you got the wrong impression. I explained that the incident is what got me thinking about the topic.

As for the rest of your comments, I sincerely hope nobody follows your final bit of advice as a general rule.
__________________
Broadsword calling Danny Boy, Over!

Last edited by dsk; 07-06-2012 at 12:24 AM. Reason: language
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 07-05-2012, 11:13 PM
Shadowspawn Shadowspawn is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Fairfield County, CT
Posts: 265
Drinking and driving can be done in moderation (based on factors such as; person's size, alcohol amount, time period, and other contents of stomach.) Society says its OK. The same can be said for drinking and guns. Knowing when to say when is really the key. You can't be in anything but Condition White if your "three sheets to the wind." And in "White" you probably won't survive if attacked. So if your whole reason for carrying is to "be ready for any goblin, at any time," then why would you ever let yourself slop into Codition White? Seems a bit hypocritical to anyone whose really serious about being "ever vigilant." At home, you can still get caught in Condition White if you let your guard down. So really the question posed is should people with no common sense be around dangerous things. (Home or otherwise.) 2A doesn't address because the Founding Fathers probably felt "this truth to be self-evident."
__________________
God Bless America!!!
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 07-06-2012, 12:33 AM
dsk's Avatar
dsk dsk is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 44,461
I'm not a lawyer, but here is my common-sense answer: As far as I know there's no law against being intoxicated inside your own home. Also as far as I know being drunk won't be a factor regarding the law if the shooting is still justified. However if you did something that broke the law (like firing shots at the perp's car as he sped away, hitting a bystander) you're still going to be held liable whether you were sober enough to know what you were doing or not. In other words, being drunk probably isn't going to hurt you if you did the right thing, but it's also no defense if you screw up. I would think that being drunk might also make you more open to a civil suit if the perp's family or lawyer can show that your sense of judgement was impaired, righteous shooting or not.

Bottom line: people are stupid and do stupid things when they're drunk. It's also not the best condition to be in if you're suddenly in a fight for your life, no matter how it plays out.
__________________
Try not to fall into the common trap of wanting to replace everything on your new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out, and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot it for at least 500 rounds, then decide what you don't like and want improved. Vintage 1911's should NEVER be refinished or modified because it ruins any value they had as a collectible firearm.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 07-06-2012, 01:22 AM
19112474me 19112474me is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Saco Me
Posts: 841
I....carry in bars all the time. I go to the same bar every single night. With my girlfriend, to have dinner and a different foreign beer that's imported from some tiny country I've never heard of. I also drink that beer with my pistol IWB. However. I never have more than one beer. So I see no issue. I also on occasion pop open a $40 bottle of French wine with my gf. And drink one single glass. Still my bal is probably at max 0.1 or 0.2. So again no worries. I never get drunk. I never even get buzzed. Firearms ownership is a responsibility that translates into every other aspect of my life, to keep my right to own weapons and to defen my life. I never do anything that could jeopardize that. I believe of your smart enough about it. Having one or two is fine, as long as you don't even dance near one too many.
__________________
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity".- Freud
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 07-06-2012, 04:02 AM
220swiftfn 220swiftfn is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowspawn View Post
Drinking and driving can be done in moderation (based on factors such as; person's size, alcohol amount, time period, and other contents of stomach.) Society says its OK. The same can be said for drinking and guns. Knowing when to say when is really the key. You can't be in anything but Condition White if your "three sheets to the wind." And in "White" you probably won't survive if attacked. So if your whole reason for carrying is to "be ready for any goblin, at any time," then why would you ever let yourself slop into Codition White? Seems a bit hypocritical to anyone whose really serious about being "ever vigilant." At home, you can still get caught in Condition White if you let your guard down. So really the question posed is should people with no common sense be around dangerous things. (Home or otherwise.) 2A doesn't address because the Founding Fathers probably felt "this truth to be self-evident."
However, most of the founding fathers had their own stills (and the sour mash to use it)........ IIRC George Washington had one set up at the White House. My point being that "slovenly persons" were around then, just as they are now. (BTW, the town drunkard had the same right to firearms as the town priest, unless either of them was in the hoosegow AT THE TIME!!!!)


Dan
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 07-06-2012, 02:45 PM
Red Dirt Dave Red Dirt Dave is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: OOOOOklahoma!
Age: 61
Posts: 1,849
One might do best by checking his own state laws.
This is what OK says:
"TITLE 21 1289.9 CARRYING WEAPONS UNDER INFLUENCE OF ALCOHOL

It shall be unlawful for any person to carry or use shotguns, rifles or pistols in any circumstances while under the influence of beer, intoxicating liquors or any hallucinogenic, or any unlawful or unprescribed drug, and it shall be unlawful for any person to carry or use shotguns, rifles or pistols when under the influence of any drug prescribed by a licensed physician if the after effects of such consumption affect mental, emotional or physical processes to a degree that would result in abnormal behavior. Any person convicted of a violation of the provisions of this section shall be punished as provided in Section 1289.15 of this title."

I guess that a lawyer would have to help a jury understand what, "under the influence of" means as related to the circumstances of your particular case.

If you were drinking in your own home - and were attacked - you would have to forgo using your firearms for defense.

Maybe your best bet would be to practice up on slurred vocal commands.
__________________
"If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men. Romans 12:18
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 07-08-2012, 05:14 AM
Citygas Citygas is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 151
If I was intoxicated enough to think it would affect my decision making and marksmanship (never happens, but ok let's just say it did), I would hand the firearm to my wife and have her cover me. that would have been a sensible thing to do FOR ME in the situation described. As was said a couple of post before this one. Owning a firearm is a responsibility that entails sacrifices. Just as it makes sense not to pick a fight if you have your weapon on you, it makes sense to maintain the ability to employ the weapon when it is on your person.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 07-08-2012, 11:47 AM
MarkEdwards MarkEdwards is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Arlington, TX
Posts: 435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Dirt Dave View Post
Maybe your best bet would be to practice up on slurred vocal commands.
"FREEZE! I'm drunk and I have a weapon!"

That would scare the pants off of me.
__________________
Mark Edwards -- Proof of Sanity forged upon request
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 07-10-2012, 05:26 PM
mrgein mrgein is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 28
i would say most people don't get drunk at home, they do that at the bar then drive home LOL. sadly true.
__________________
Para 1911 LDA 14-45, TacSKS, Rem700-270, Tac12Ga
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 07-12-2012, 04:49 PM
RC4U12 RC4U12 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 127
jeez i take lots of narcotics for pain BUT get no adverce reactions like "highs" from them..been on them to long..so does that mean i should not carry my gun or defend myself in my home?? heck i will not even think twice if my life or wife has a need for defensive measures..nuff with with the lawyers and what they will do{no time for that in a bad situation to think if you may get sued} ...if the need is there and you are willing to defend yourself then i say do so...now if you are so enebreated that you cannot think then there was probably no reason for self defense{maybe just the pink elephants were there}....jeff
__________________
Kimber Custom Royal, Kimber Custom Stainless Covert, Kimber CDP II, Colt Pocket Nine,,,Sig 229{sold to son},
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 08-09-2012, 07:34 AM
Nelen Nelen is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 5
Hi dear i want to say that should every one setup a strong defense system on around their houses i also protect my home with my security system which have security alarm and security guards and also have a electric wire fence which stop the criminal's at outside.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:52 PM.


NOTICE TO USERS OF THIS SITE: By continuing to use this site, you certify that you have read and agree to abide by the Legal Terms of Use. All information, data, text or other materials ("Content") posted to this site by any users are the sole responsibility of those users. 1911Forum does not guarantee the accuracy, integrity, or quality of such Content.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 2011 1911Forum.com, LLC. All Rights Reserved