CCW load?

[GlenS]

I know most don't recommend it but I like loading my own carry loads. Right now I use 230 JHP bullet with 5.8 grains of WW 231 powder. If you have a good carry load what is it? I also use new Starline cases and Federal LP primers.

[Nick A]

If you have a good carry load what is it?

It would be the most controllable and reliable load I can develop,
using the bullet I select in the gun I would carry,
at a velocity within the range advised by the bullet manufacturer.

Mine might be very different from all yours.
But all ours might be in the same ballpark.

Just make sure it's controllable.

[WESHOOT2]

I suggest backing off your load to 5.5g W231.
Try that.

[GlenS]

Originally Posted by WESHOOT2

I suggest backing off your load to 5.5g W231.
Try that.

Have you chronographed this load? I'm getting average around 850 fps with the 5.8 load. I will load up some with 5.5 grains and see where they are. Thanks for the response.

[MSgt Dotson]

5.8 gr would definitely be near the top end, and, any manual which specified it also likely specified the specific 230 gr JHP specific bullet....

[FLSlim]

Personally, I would go with a little slower powder. You should be able to get the same or better velocity as you get with 231 with a little less pressure. I've used WSF to try to get something close to non+p defensive loads.

[GlenS]

Originally Posted by MSgt Dotson

5.8 gr would definitely be near the top end, and, any manual which specified it also likely specified the specific 230 gr JHP specific bullet....

My reloading manual gives the top load for a 230 grain jacketed bullet at 6.2 grains.

[UrbanSI]

I like the higher charges of HP-38 and the 230 XTP, 900 FPS and this bullet profile is flat out devastating, the trick is to have enough FPS to get it to expand...

[MSgt Dotson]

Last time I checked, I believe Hodgdon/WInchester's online data specifies only 5.3 gr of 231 as being near the top end these days , but, that would be a very conservative target/plinking load at best, likely to cover all bullet styles, and used in GLocks where a large portion of the barrel has been throated, leaving a large portion of unsupported casehead. (my own 3rd gen Glock 21 is no exception)

[Bagdad_45]

I load my own also. Hard to resist getting a hundred rounds for the price of 20 factory. My latest loads are Hornady 230 gr XTP with 7.8 grains of AA 5 with FED 150 in Starline brass. Chrono's out at 850 fps. Use in Kimber Pro CDP, going to full size gun get to 890 fps.

[WESHOOT2]

Originally Posted by GlenS

Have you chronographed this load? I'm getting average around 850 fps with the 5.8 load. I will load up some with 5.5 grains and see where they are. Thanks for the response.

I have; so did customers.
In my guns it (230g non-bonded Golden Saber, new sized cases, CCI300, 5.5g W231) averaged 815fps.

Utterly controllable, stunning accuracy.


Modern-design bullets do not require higher velocities to function properly at impact.

[whtsmoke]

when we took our clas the legal portion was taught by one of the lawyers that helped write our ccc law and he said not to carry handloads, said they would use it against you if you would go to court. fyi

[Rifter]

Originally Posted by WESHOOT2

I have; so did customers.
In my guns it (230g non-bonded Golden Saber, new sized cases, CCI300, 5.5g W231) averaged 815fps.

Utterly controllable, stunning accuracy.

Modern-design bullets do not require higher velocities to function properly at impact.

The GS bullet works very well up in the +P range as well. 8.8 Blue Dot in my RRA Tactical avgs. about 950, and is also extremely accurate.

[cliffspot]

I never carry reloads due to liabilty reasons....we are in the "Age of the Shyster" so beware! I make loads that duplicate the ballistics of my carry ammo to practice. Been shooting so long, recoil differences between 45 ACP loads is not really a problem to me. Only gun that gave me a start was the 500 magnum....fired 3 different barrel lengths and the "snubby" was like unleashing a hand full of hell!

[Rifter]

Originally Posted by whtsmoke

when we took our clas the legal portion was taught by one of the lawyers that helped write our ccc law and he said not to carry handloads, said they would use it against you if you would go to court. fyi

God, not this again! He's full of it. There is not one single documented case of legitimate self defense of anyone being prosecuted for using handloads. I've been looking for one for over 40 years. As I've said before, even if the prosecution brings it up, any halfway decent defense atty. is going to rip it to shreds.

[Nick A]

You mean the police Incident Report doesn't have a box to check,
one that says Reloads and one that says Factory?



I mean, please don't turn the world upside down on us.
We've been told by so many knowledgeable men that reloads will get us jail time.



In order to get prosecuted for reloads, the investigators must discover the fact
and report those facts to the lawyers. Otherwise it is a rebuttable presumption.
So I figure it's on the Incident Report. It must be. A special place on the form. Or something.
Otherwise, they depend upon YOU to tell them. How else would they know?




Oh, I remember. NCIS will send the evidence to Abby in the lab.
She'll track down the credit card you used to buy the components.
Busted!

[sjd78]

Originally Posted by Nick A

You mean the police Incident Report doesn't have a box to check,
one that says Reloads and one that says Factory?



I mean, please don't turn the world upside down on us.
We've been told by so many knowledgeable men that reloads will get us jail time.



In order to get prosecuted for reloads, the investigators must discover the fact
and report those facts to the lawyers. Otherwise it is a rebuttable presumption.
So I figure it's on the Incident Report. It must be. A special place on the form. Or something.
Otherwise, they depend upon YOU to tell them. How else would they know?




Oh, I remember. NCIS will send the evidence to Abby in the lab.
She'll track down the credit card you used to buy the components.
Busted!

You crack me up buddy! I needed a good laugh today.

[farduino]

I just rolled a 100 rounds using XTP 200 grain HP and Autocomp 6.9 grains. Shot most of them at the range today and now that will be my carry ammunition. Very happy with the results but will reload a lot more for carry ammo.

[whtsmoke]

Originally Posted by Rifter

God, not this again! He's full of it. There is not one single documented case of legitimate self defense of anyone being prosecuted for using handloads. I've been looking for one for over 40 years. As I've said before, even if the prosecution brings it up, any halfway decent defense atty. is going to rip it to shreds.

thanks for the info, glad an expert spoke up and corrected me again, i tend to believe a lawyer on this one better safe than sorry.

[Nick A]

In all honesty, whtsmoke, check the related threads on this Forum and others.

Lawyers in the gun industry generally don't believe what your lawyer told you.

But you know what they say about lawyers.
Lay all of them end to end around the equator,
and they still wouldn't reach a conclusion.

[whtsmoke]

Originally Posted by Nick A

In all honesty, whtsmoke, check the related threads on this Forum and others.

Lawyers in the gun industry generally don't believe what your lawyer told you.

But you know what they say about lawyers.
Lay all of them end to end around the equator,
and they still wouldn't reach a conclusion.

so what does "generally" mean? maybe it could be used against you, or maybe not? what not just be safe than sorry for a change?
what got to me was the way he comes across when he doesnt agree with someone, likke hes always right.

[RetiredRod]

Originally Posted by whtsmoke

......what got to me was the way he comes across when he doesnt agree with someone, likke hes always right.

I think Rifter was just voicing the frustration we all feel when someone says the use of handloaded ammo will get you in more legal trouble than using factory ammo. No one has ever been able to produce a documented case of someone being more harshly penalized because of using handloads. A legal shoot is a legal shoot, regardless of the ammunition used.

[rickgman]

Gentlemen, Let's apply a little logic to this subject. If you shoot another individual with a firearm, the most important issue will be a determination of whether the use of deadly force was justified. Any concerns associated with what ammo was used will be incidental at best. Deadly force was used so everyone knows that you had the intention of killing or seriously wounding your assailant. Relative to using 5.8 grains of 231 with a 230 grain bullet, that is definitely well above the recommended max load for this combination as published by the propellant manufacturer. It is not prudent to exceed max recommended loads. Certainly there is a safety factor applied to max load recommendations but that safety factor can dissipate when factors stack up in the wrong direction. I have often recommended that folks behave prudently when dealing with explosive chemistry. Remember, velocity is not the determinant relative to max loads - chamber pressure dictates what the max load is.

[Bigapple828]

Originally Posted by RetiredRod

I think Rifter was just voicing the frustration we all feel when someone says the use of handloaded ammo will get you in more legal trouble than using factory ammo. No one has ever been able to produce a documented case of someone being more harshly penalized because of using handloads. A legal shoot is a legal shoot, regardless of the ammunition used.

I think what he means is that in court the opposing lawyer may claim you "designed bullets to kill."

I talked to an officer who was sitting behind the counter at a local reloading supply store. I asked him this question directly, and he said it shouldn't matter as long as the shooting was justified.

Also, if you look on a box of XTPs (or any other JHP in a magazine) they advertise them as being great for accuracy, but also for personal defense. This would probably help you out in court as well.

[Rifter]

Originally Posted by RetiredRod

I think Rifter was just voicing the frustration we all feel when someone says the use of handloaded ammo will get you in more legal trouble than using factory ammo. No one has ever been able to produce a documented case of someone being more harshly penalized because of using handloads. A legal shoot is a legal shoot, regardless of the ammunition used.

+10 Absolutely.