Inflated Prices

[dsk]

Originally Posted by Jack71

The sellers want top dollar - just basic economics at work. As a buyer I feel almost priced off the market. But if I were selling I suppose I would be happy about these inflated prices.

The biggest problem is with the more desireable examples. $1500 seems to have been the going rate for a nice Type III Remington Rand or plain vanilla Ithaca for quite a number of years. By contrast the rare birds have gone literaly out of sight. Ten years ago I bought a nice blued RS for around $3000. I had to sell it about three years later, and got $4000 for it. But by now that same pistol would easily be worth $8000, maybe even more, and I've been kicking myself ever since for not trying harder to hang onto that one. This is why collectors always say to buy as high grade as you can. The mutts will rise in value eventually, but not much unless we have too many of these folks who are buying anything they can find, no matter what its condition. But the really nice ones will continue to climb dramatically in the coming years as they become increasingly difficult to find.

[MKC 911]

Originally Posted by CIB

Oh I am not bitter. I don't want those dogs anyway. I stick with original.

Deleted.

[MotorSeven]

Yes, the question is how high will they go and when does the bottom fall out?

Every day we hear how "bad" the economy is, so how do so many have such disposable income?

1911's aside, have y'all looked at the prices of Original Henry Repeating rifles?

[JohnBT]

I don't really follow the vintage 1911 market, except for what I see on here. I enjoy the history more than the prices. Okay, I do follow Singer prices, and fakes.

Has it gotten as bad as the situation with Colt Pythons? You can buy reproduction boxes, hang tags, grips and targets on ebay. Buying a collectible Python is an iffy thing these days if you don't know your guns and your boxes. And even things like when the red-insert front sight was really introduced. It's just sad to see the thieves trying to take over.

I've seen what happened to SAA prices. A friend's father had a large collection of fine SAA Colts and when it was liquidated not too long ago due to illness it brought an astounding amount of money. My friend was going to keep one of the engraved Buntlines iirc, but in the end took a cheaper one because he didn't want the responsibility for an $18k gun.

Oops, time to go back to work.

John

[usngm2]

Instead of crying about it, maybe it's time for the Old Salts to cash in on their collections

(Just kidding, fellas.)

[surplusshooter]

If you think these prices today for these old 1911/1911A1's are crazy, just wait until the economy turns around. Ten years from now you might be saying "I remember back when you could buy an original all correct USGI 1942 Colt for a mere $ 5,000.00." You surly don't think that these old USGI 1911/1911A1's will ever go down in value do you ?

[dsk]

I just know that I'm pretty much priced out of the market of any collectible 1911s now, be it commercial or military. My last two additions were really tough to find, and in fact I only lucked into one of them and had to sell one of my other collectibles to help pay for it! Lest you think the guys who have lots of pistols are rich, I've had private discussions with some of them, and they all agree there's no way they could afford their current collections if they had to start over. They only have what they have because they got started collecting 40+ years ago when these pistols were dirt cheap. Unless you're made of money you're not going to be able to build up a collection like these guys have, and it's really a shame because it seems anything of value is fast getting beyond the reach of the average working man.

[fxntime]

Originally Posted by dsk

I just know that I'm pretty much priced out of the market of any collectible 1911s now, be it commercial or military. My last two additions were really tough to find, and in fact I only lucked into one of them and had to sell one of my other collectibles to help pay for it! Lest you think the guys who have lots of pistols are rich, I've had private discussions with some of them, and they all agree there's no way they could afford their current collections if they had to start over. They only have what they have because they got started collecting 40+ years ago when these pistols were dirt cheap. Unless you're made of money you're not going to be able to build up a collection like these guys have, and it's really a shame because it seems anything of value is fast getting beyond the reach of the average working man.

This is about where I am also. Once I hit a certain monetary limit, I just can't justify buying them anymore. I have found some decent one's but those tend to be few and very far between nowadays save for a one year period where I fell into a couple good deals and was certainly not the norm.

I still enjoy looking at them and looking for them but it's far different then it was even 10 years ago and the last few years, even with the economy, has really pushed prices into the stratosphere. Since they still seem to sell, I can't say that people are overpaying but it's still hard for me to personally justify buying them unless they are at what I consider a reasonable price. I should have bought far more in the 80s and early 90s when they were still at a price level that was considerably lower.

Of course, almost nothing WW I or II related, especially firearms, has gone down in price or stayed the same and pistols were always far scarcer then the rifles in number and far fewer were ever released and sold off before the practice was halted. For that matter, price any old minty Civi Colts or S&Ws and the last few years has really seen a staggering price increase as people realize that much of what was made then will likely not be repeated due to labor costs and cheaper manufacturing methods. That doesn't mean that today's firearms are not good, just that for many people, something seems to have been lost, just like the era they came from.

[VetPsychWars]

Quite honestly, you're a victim of your own success. If you're already a collector, you folks might trade amongst yourselves at prices more to your liking. Except for the occasional rare find when grandpa kicks off and a pistol gets sold, most of the very good or better examples are pretty much gone. People are all excited about what's left over, and since anything in reasonable condition is rare nowadays, AND guys at gun shows are pricing their rusty crap at $1800, well, they're going to pay more than you think it's worth.

Perhaps that will change, but I doubt it. I admit to laughing my butt off at anyone who has a Beanie Baby collection nowadays. :-)

Tom

[oldcolts]

The state of the economy is one important factor in prices. More restrictive gun laws, if they ever come, also could bring prices down a lot. Just look at what happened in places like Britain and Australia with the introduction of severe restrictions on hand guns.

When Canada introduced registration of long guns (rifles, shotguns, etc), one could hardly give a rifle or shotgun away. Gradually, over the years since then, sales again picked up. Recently, Canada did away with the long gun registration system, and sales are probably soaring.

Relaxation of laws regarding hand guns would result in further price rises. Hand gun ownership and carry laws in Canada are very restrictive, and most hand gun owners cannot legally transport a hand gun other than to or from a shooting range. This has resulted in a hot market for "antique hand guns." Hand guns manufactured in 1897 or earlier, in certain calibers, can be owned and carried without registration or a permit. Beater Webleys commonly sell for 2K or so.

In the U.S., antiques are defined as guns made before the end of 1898. Although I don't know all the details, looser laws also apply to their sale and ownership in the U.S. If the definition of "antique" is expanded in the future to include the early 1911s, the price of these pistols likely would soar as a result, on both sides of the border.

[nfafan]

Lurking here... this thread could pretty much be used to apply to a discussion over Colt TSMGs, NFA in general, Corvettes..

As many have stated - supply vs demand. The only "flyer" is where in this "down economy" are folks finding the disposable coin to "pay to play"?

[bullet45acp]

Just think where the prices could be in an "up" economy!

JAG

[tristan]

Just wait until the WW1 movies start coming out in 2014-2018 to take advantage of the centennial of the Great War. All it's going to take is a remake of "Sgt. York" with Brad Pitt waving around a 1911 and then watch the prices take off, ala the "Band of Brothers" and "SPR" surge in the Garand and carbine market.

[daven59]

Just to add my inflated price story. I bid for the 1st time on Gun(I was almost a little ) Broker and on the advice of some here after probing with the 1st two bids for reserve waited till the last 30 min to place a bid while at work from my car since Cell Phones are forbotten. When I checked again I had the winning bid of $850 on a 1944 Rem Rand Arsenal stamped rework in like new condition. So excited on my first try and the price ...not too bad. The bad news the auction ended and I didn't meet reserve. But it was a little thrilling and since I didn't win my wife won't have to kill me. LOL

PS the gun popped back on GB the next day? As did some others I watched end?

[billybandholz]

Dave, ask the seller how close you were, maybe you could work out a deal ? Sometimes they will tell you their reserve.

[dsk]

Originally Posted by tristan

Just wait until the WW1 movies start coming out in 2014-2018 to take advantage of the centennial of the Great War. All it's going to take is a remake of "Sgt. York" with Brad Pitt waving around a 1911 and then watch the prices take off, ala the "Band of Brothers" and "SPR" surge in the Garand and carbine market.

World War One never seemed to catch on with the public's imagination like the Second World War did, at least not here in the USA. It's probably because America didn't really get in on the fun until the last few months of the war, and the whole thing was little more than a senseless meat grinder that accomplished nothing, sort of like the Korean War 50 years later (another conflict that's received very little exposure from Hollywood). Therefore I don't expect to see a huge resurgence of interest in World War One, or for the price of related militaria to jump in price much beyond what it already has.

And yes I agree a Sgt. York remake is long overdue, especially given how phony so many elements of the original were (surprising since the real Alvin York gave the movie his blessing). I always thought Thomas Hayden Church would've played the ideal Alvin York, since he not only bore a strong physical resemblance but would've fit into the role of a simple Tennessee country boy pretty well. Alas he's too old now, but they could probably find somebody new who'd be able to do it. Brad Pitt, hell no!

Of course, in a modern remake York would likely be portrayed as some Rambo figure and likely shoot 30 Germans with his 1911 without reloading, assuming they even remembered to include that event at all. In all likelihood they have him doing it with a Luger in each hand, leaping sideways John Woo-style.

[daven59]

Billy, My biggest fear was Him contacting me or don't know if they can change the reserve if it was close and all of a sudden I have to pay $850. I would have paid and it would have been kinda worth it to get one for under $1000 but I was playing the hunch that all these sellers think reworks start at $1200. Any way after shipping Tax and transfer fee and gas to my FFL I'll be out a cool $1000 and that has me keeping bids on reworks around $850 so I probably won't win any bids. It might just be me but the price in my mind includes total expense.

[billybandholz]

Dave, you're right. Sometimes, though, it doesn't hurt to ask. Like people on here have said, some of these guys are setting high reserves and just fishing. If you get a guy who hasn't been able to move it in awhile, you might luck out. I'm not too proud to ask "would you ship you PA for $XXX? ".

[billybandholz]

Also, I think you only pay tax if its bought from a dealer in your own state. Private guys, even in your own state, don't usually charge tax, either. My ffl guy charges $20, pistol or long gun.

[daven59]

I bought some Swiss K-31's from Arizona and my dealer tacked on the fee plus Tax. I'm tracking several WW2 1911A1's on GB just to watch. Most of the too high priced ones don't get any bids and they just go away and then reappear. I'll continue to track them and even though the pictures are not that great(possibly to hide imperfections or reparkerizing or rework stamping)I'm able to see more pistols to learn more about what should and should not be on them.
To be honest I'm considering a new Colt 38 super or 45ACP and will ask my local gun shops as they normally beat gun broker when it comes to new and there's no shipping or transfer cost as well.

[billybandholz]

That tacking on the tax thing sounds fishy bud.

[CIB]

Originally Posted by daven59

I bought some Swiss K-31's from Arizona and my dealer tacked on the fee plus Tax. I'm tracking several WW2 1911A1's on GB just to watch. Most of the too high priced ones don't get any bids and they just go away and then reappear. I'll continue to track them and even though the pictures are not that great(possibly to hide imperfections or reparkerizing or rework stamping)I'm able to see more pistols to learn more about what should and should not be on them.
To be honest I'm considering a new Colt 38 super or 45ACP and will ask my local gun shops as they normally beat gun broker when it comes to new and there's no shipping or transfer cost as well.

Your deal screwed you, then.

[CIB]

Originally Posted by daven59

I bought some Swiss K-31's from Arizona and my dealer tacked on the fee plus Tax. I'm tracking several WW2 1911A1's on GB just to watch. Most of the too high priced ones don't get any bids and they just go away and then reappear. I'll continue to track them and even though the pictures are not that great(possibly to hide imperfections or reparkerizing or rework stamping)I'm able to see more pistols to learn more about what should and should not be on them.
To be honest I'm considering a new Colt 38 super or 45ACP and will ask my local gun shops as they normally beat gun broker when it comes to new and there's no shipping or transfer cost as well.

Your dealer screwed you, if he hit you with tax.

[billybandholz]

I'd check with the BBB on that.

[daven59]

I'll be checking.