Urgent: US&S Opinions Needed

[Blacksmith]

Esteemed colleagues - Please take a look at the pics below, and let me know opinions, and what you would be comfortable paying.

I'm going to look at it tomorrow, and want to make sure I'm treating both of us fairly.

Thanks,

Buck

[CIB]

To me, I would need more pics. How is the barrel marked?

[rox15636215]

What is the asking $?

[oldcanuck]

Slide stop and trigger are wrong. Finish appears to be wrong as well.

[CIB]

I thought the same about the finish, but wanted to see more pics to confirm.

[dsk]

Originally Posted by oldcanuck

Slide stop and trigger are wrong. Finish appears to be wrong as well.

Why do you think the trigger is wrong? It appears to have borderless checkering from what I can see. It's not a glossy Du-Lite blue however, giving further suspicion that the entire piece might be refinished.

[Blacksmith]

Thank you guys very much.

I knew I could count on you.

The pics aren't the best, but they're all I'll have until I inspect it.

Seller says it has an HS barrel in it.

I did notice the serrated vs. checkered slide stop, and the finish looked a little too good.

Let's assume it has been refinished.

What's top dollar?

[Blacksmith]

Originally Posted by dsk

Why do you think the trigger is wrong? It appears to have borderless checkering from what I can see. It's not a glossy Du-Lite blue however, giving further suspicion that the entire piece might be refinished.

Dana - I really only know RRs, which is why your help is so critical.

Would the US&Ss have the glossy Du-Lite like the Singers, or were they blasted first?

Thank you

[vette]

They are sandblasted and dull slate like finish. The triggers are usually a shinney blue, but DuLite.

These pictures are pretty bad. I have a strong leaning that the finish is original. We need to know the MSH checkering, hammer checkering and if the HS barrel still has original DuLite blue. If it checks out, as a nice first variation, it should bring $3500-4000 in the markets I frequent. Good luck.

[Blacksmith]

Originally Posted by vette

They are sandblasted and dull slate like finish. The triggers are usually a shinney blue, but DuLite.

These pictures are pretty bad. I have a strong leaning that the finish is original. We need to know the MSH checkering, hammer checkering and if the HS barrel still has original DuLite blue. If it checks out, as a nice first variation, it should bring $3500-4000 in the markets I frequent. Good luck.

Thanks Vette!

[38 Super +p]

I can't comment on the finish, as I am not too familiar with Du Lite bluing. However, I can tell you that the slide stop should be checkered. I think the finish should be kinda grainy like a later Remington Rand. If the finish is OK, it looks like a pretty good piece.

[dsk]

Originally Posted by Blacksmith

Dana - I really only know RRs, which is why your help is so critical.

Would the US&Ss have the glossy Du-Lite like the Singers, or were they blasted first?

Thank you

Sorry, I was specifically referring to the trigger, which on US&S pistols had a glossy finish to them as opposed to the sandblasted matte of this one. The pistols themselves were a dull sandblasted Du-Lite, but with the "grain" of the final polishing operations usually still present. Now that I'm looking at the pistol on my home monitor the slide and frame look a bit more like they should, but the trigger and slide stop issues prove that the pistol has been messed with in some fashion. The slide stop itself isn't a WW2 GI unit, as the serrations are too coarse. That's also the Mother of All Idiot Scratches on the frame. Normally an incorrect slide stop wouldn't impact value too badly, but given how hard it would be to track down a US&S slide stop and trigger with the correct finish I'd say it will hurt vaue to a greater degree. I'd say it's probably a $2000-$2500 pistol if the finish can be verified original and the barrel has a perfect bore.

[Blacksmith]

Again, thanks a ton everybody, really.

If we make a deal today, I'll post pics.

[oldcanuck]

Originally Posted by vette

They are sandblasted and dull slate like finish. The triggers are usually a shinney blue, but DuLite.

These pictures are pretty bad. I have a strong leaning that the finish is original. We need to know the MSH checkering, hammer checkering and if the HS barrel still has original DuLite blue. If it checks out, as a nice first variation, it should bring $3500-4000 in the markets I frequent. Good luck.

Mike,

How can it possibly be a Type I with a 107xxxx serial number ???

BG

[oldcanuck]

Originally Posted by dsk

Why do you think the trigger is wrong? It appears to have borderless checkering from what I can see. It's not a glossy Du-Lite blue however, giving further suspicion that the entire piece might be refinished.

I called it wrong based on finish... it's always the first thing I look at when evaluating a US&S. Next I look at the smalls... like the barrel bushing...MSH.....barrel.... then the Du-lite finish. By then hopefully I have walked towards some good natural light source to see the overall finish.... which can be a challenge sometimes. Dont forget to check and make sure the Type indicators between the slide and frame match, as so many seem to be pieced together.

[Blacksmith]

Originally Posted by oldcanuck

I called it wrong based on finish... it's always the first thing I look at when evaluating a US&S. Next I look at the smalls... like the barrel bushing...MSH.....barrel.... then the Du-lite finish. By then hopefully I have walked towards some good natural light source to see the overall finish.... which can be a challenge sometimes. Dont forget to check and make sure the Type indicators between the slide and frame match, as so many seem to be pieced together.

Thanks Canuck - Being 101-level on the US&S, what is a dead give-away that the frame and slide types match?

Best,

Buck

[Rob Greer]

Originally Posted by oldcanuck

Mike,

How can it possibly be a Type I with a 107xxxx serial number ???

BG

The serial number is 10427XX...

[vette]

Originally Posted by oldcanuck

Mike,

How can it possibly be a Type I with a 107xxxx serial number ???

BG

It looked like 1.04 million in the pictures. I also think that the trigger may be more bright than it appears but the picture washed it out. Hard to say a whole lot certain with those 2 iffy pictures though. Of course I realize the slide stop is wrong. They can be hard to find as can a MSH if there is an issue there.

[oldcanuck]

My bad.... eyes for sure... I saw 107 and your'e right its... 104.

That being the case.... I would hazard to say that its definately refinished, as the Type I USS production has heavy visible polish marks.....

[oldcanuck]

Originally Posted by Blacksmith

Thanks Canuck - Being 101-level on the US&S, what is a dead give-away that the frame and slide types match?

Best,

Buck

Buck,

Type I had no 'P' firing proods....Type II has a 'hanging P' on the slide usually just above the LH serrations with matching LH frame proof, and Type III the slide 'P' is directly in front of the rear sight, and on the LH frame.

Bob

[Blacksmith]

Hi Guys - I ended up getting it, and spent some quality time with it in the shop tonight.

Took it all the way down, cleaned, oiled, etc.

I'll drag it outside for a photo shoot tomorrow, and share pics with you guys.

Thanks again for the help guys - I really appreciate it.

[vette]

I look forward to pictures. Hopefully we can figure out exactly what you ended up with.

[Blacksmith]

So, thought I'd get some good pics in the morning indirect sun.

Looked great on the camera - translated for dooky.

Anyhow, I guess rely on the close-ups for finish stuff, and the darker overalls for a tutorial in how not to take pics. (I grasp the concepts, my execution just stunk).

Anyhow, thanks again for all the support.

I'm real happy to have it, and met a really nice guy in the process.

[oldcanuck]

Roro..... add the MSH to the list of incorrects....

[vette]

That MSH should have triggered some concern, even if it were a US&S, since its finish is so different and worn.

If you paid $1500-1800 you are safe even if refinished. That is about what refinished US&S seem to be saleing for. Does the feedramp have blueing or is it in the white. Pictures of the hammer and just a good left and right profile may help. The hammer pin looks like a bad sign looking at the finish on the pin.