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  #1  
Old 05-25-2012, 05:30 PM
Blacksmith Blacksmith is offline
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Urgent: US&S Opinions Needed




Esteemed colleagues - Please take a look at the pics below, and let me know opinions, and what you would be comfortable paying.

I'm going to look at it tomorrow, and want to make sure I'm treating both of us fairly.

Thanks,

Buck

Last edited by Blacksmith; 05-27-2012 at 11:59 AM.
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  #2  
Old 05-25-2012, 06:00 PM
CIB CIB is offline
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To me, I would need more pics. How is the barrel marked?
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  #3  
Old 05-25-2012, 07:26 PM
rox15636215 rox15636215 is offline
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What is the asking $?
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  #4  
Old 05-25-2012, 08:25 PM
oldcanuck oldcanuck is offline
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Slide stop and trigger are wrong. Finish appears to be wrong as well.
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  #5  
Old 05-25-2012, 08:34 PM
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I thought the same about the finish, but wanted to see more pics to confirm.
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  #6  
Old 05-25-2012, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldcanuck View Post
Slide stop and trigger are wrong. Finish appears to be wrong as well.
Why do you think the trigger is wrong? It appears to have borderless checkering from what I can see. It's not a glossy Du-Lite blue however, giving further suspicion that the entire piece might be refinished.
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Try not to fall into the common trap of wanting to replace everything on your new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out, and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot it for at least 500 rounds, then decide what you don't like and want improved. Vintage 1911's should NEVER be refinished or modified because it ruins any value they had as a collectible firearm.
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  #7  
Old 05-25-2012, 09:51 PM
Blacksmith Blacksmith is offline
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Thank you guys very much.

I knew I could count on you.

The pics aren't the best, but they're all I'll have until I inspect it.

Seller says it has an HS barrel in it.

I did notice the serrated vs. checkered slide stop, and the finish looked a little too good.

Let's assume it has been refinished.

What's top dollar?
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  #8  
Old 05-25-2012, 09:53 PM
Blacksmith Blacksmith is offline
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Originally Posted by dsk View Post
Why do you think the trigger is wrong? It appears to have borderless checkering from what I can see. It's not a glossy Du-Lite blue however, giving further suspicion that the entire piece might be refinished.
Dana - I really only know RRs, which is why your help is so critical.

Would the US&Ss have the glossy Du-Lite like the Singers, or were they blasted first?

Thank you
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  #9  
Old 05-25-2012, 10:53 PM
vette vette is offline
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They are sandblasted and dull slate like finish. The triggers are usually a shinney blue, but DuLite.

These pictures are pretty bad. I have a strong leaning that the finish is original. We need to know the MSH checkering, hammer checkering and if the HS barrel still has original DuLite blue. If it checks out, as a nice first variation, it should bring $3500-4000 in the markets I frequent. Good luck.
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  #10  
Old 05-25-2012, 11:10 PM
Blacksmith Blacksmith is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vette View Post
They are sandblasted and dull slate like finish. The triggers are usually a shinney blue, but DuLite.

These pictures are pretty bad. I have a strong leaning that the finish is original. We need to know the MSH checkering, hammer checkering and if the HS barrel still has original DuLite blue. If it checks out, as a nice first variation, it should bring $3500-4000 in the markets I frequent. Good luck.
Thanks Vette!
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  #11  
Old 05-25-2012, 11:27 PM
38 Super +p 38 Super +p is online now
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I can't comment on the finish, as I am not too familiar with Du Lite bluing. However, I can tell you that the slide stop should be checkered. I think the finish should be kinda grainy like a later Remington Rand. If the finish is OK, it looks like a pretty good piece.

Last edited by 38 Super +p; 05-25-2012 at 11:33 PM.
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  #12  
Old 05-26-2012, 01:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blacksmith View Post
Dana - I really only know RRs, which is why your help is so critical.

Would the US&Ss have the glossy Du-Lite like the Singers, or were they blasted first?

Thank you
Sorry, I was specifically referring to the trigger, which on US&S pistols had a glossy finish to them as opposed to the sandblasted matte of this one. The pistols themselves were a dull sandblasted Du-Lite, but with the "grain" of the final polishing operations usually still present. Now that I'm looking at the pistol on my home monitor the slide and frame look a bit more like they should, but the trigger and slide stop issues prove that the pistol has been messed with in some fashion. The slide stop itself isn't a WW2 GI unit, as the serrations are too coarse. That's also the Mother of All Idiot Scratches on the frame. Normally an incorrect slide stop wouldn't impact value too badly, but given how hard it would be to track down a US&S slide stop and trigger with the correct finish I'd say it will hurt vaue to a greater degree. I'd say it's probably a $2000-$2500 pistol if the finish can be verified original and the barrel has a perfect bore.
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Try not to fall into the common trap of wanting to replace everything on your new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out, and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot it for at least 500 rounds, then decide what you don't like and want improved. Vintage 1911's should NEVER be refinished or modified because it ruins any value they had as a collectible firearm.
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  #13  
Old 05-26-2012, 07:07 AM
Blacksmith Blacksmith is offline
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Again, thanks a ton everybody, really.

If we make a deal today, I'll post pics.
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  #14  
Old 05-26-2012, 07:10 AM
oldcanuck oldcanuck is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vette View Post
They are sandblasted and dull slate like finish. The triggers are usually a shinney blue, but DuLite.

These pictures are pretty bad. I have a strong leaning that the finish is original. We need to know the MSH checkering, hammer checkering and if the HS barrel still has original DuLite blue. If it checks out, as a nice first variation, it should bring $3500-4000 in the markets I frequent. Good luck.
Mike,

How can it possibly be a Type I with a 107xxxx serial number ???

BG
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  #15  
Old 05-26-2012, 07:15 AM
oldcanuck oldcanuck is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsk View Post
Why do you think the trigger is wrong? It appears to have borderless checkering from what I can see. It's not a glossy Du-Lite blue however, giving further suspicion that the entire piece might be refinished.
I called it wrong based on finish... it's always the first thing I look at when evaluating a US&S. Next I look at the smalls... like the barrel bushing...MSH.....barrel.... then the Du-lite finish. By then hopefully I have walked towards some good natural light source to see the overall finish.... which can be a challenge sometimes. Dont forget to check and make sure the Type indicators between the slide and frame match, as so many seem to be pieced together.
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  #16  
Old 05-26-2012, 08:30 AM
Blacksmith Blacksmith is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldcanuck View Post
I called it wrong based on finish... it's always the first thing I look at when evaluating a US&S. Next I look at the smalls... like the barrel bushing...MSH.....barrel.... then the Du-lite finish. By then hopefully I have walked towards some good natural light source to see the overall finish.... which can be a challenge sometimes. Dont forget to check and make sure the Type indicators between the slide and frame match, as so many seem to be pieced together.
Thanks Canuck - Being 101-level on the US&S, what is a dead give-away that the frame and slide types match?

Best,

Buck
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  #17  
Old 05-26-2012, 08:52 AM
Rob Greer Rob Greer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldcanuck View Post
Mike,

How can it possibly be a Type I with a 107xxxx serial number ???

BG
The serial number is 10427XX...
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  #18  
Old 05-26-2012, 09:09 AM
vette vette is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldcanuck View Post
Mike,

How can it possibly be a Type I with a 107xxxx serial number ???

BG
It looked like 1.04 million in the pictures. I also think that the trigger may be more bright than it appears but the picture washed it out. Hard to say a whole lot certain with those 2 iffy pictures though. Of course I realize the slide stop is wrong. They can be hard to find as can a MSH if there is an issue there.

Last edited by vette; 05-26-2012 at 09:13 AM.
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  #19  
Old 05-26-2012, 05:47 PM
oldcanuck oldcanuck is offline
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My bad.... eyes for sure... I saw 107 and your'e right its... 104.

That being the case.... I would hazard to say that its definately refinished, as the Type I USS production has heavy visible polish marks.....
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  #20  
Old 05-26-2012, 05:50 PM
oldcanuck oldcanuck is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blacksmith View Post
Thanks Canuck - Being 101-level on the US&S, what is a dead give-away that the frame and slide types match?

Best,

Buck
Buck,

Type I had no 'P' firing proods....Type II has a 'hanging P' on the slide usually just above the LH serrations with matching LH frame proof, and Type III the slide 'P' is directly in front of the rear sight, and on the LH frame.

Bob
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  #21  
Old 05-26-2012, 08:52 PM
Blacksmith Blacksmith is offline
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Hi Guys - I ended up getting it, and spent some quality time with it in the shop tonight.

Took it all the way down, cleaned, oiled, etc.

I'll drag it outside for a photo shoot tomorrow, and share pics with you guys.

Thanks again for the help guys - I really appreciate it.
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  #22  
Old 05-26-2012, 11:03 PM
vette vette is offline
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I look forward to pictures. Hopefully we can figure out exactly what you ended up with.
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  #23  
Old 05-27-2012, 07:41 AM
Blacksmith Blacksmith is offline
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Ansel Adams I'm Not...

So, thought I'd get some good pics in the morning indirect sun.

Looked great on the camera - translated for dooky.

Anyhow, I guess rely on the close-ups for finish stuff, and the darker overalls for a tutorial in how not to take pics. (I grasp the concepts, my execution just stunk).

Anyhow, thanks again for all the support.

I'm real happy to have it, and met a really nice guy in the process.
Attached Thumbnails
US&S 1.jpg   US&S 2.jpg   US&S 3.jpg   US&S 4.jpg  

Last edited by Blacksmith; 05-27-2012 at 11:55 AM.
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  #24  
Old 05-27-2012, 08:29 AM
oldcanuck oldcanuck is offline
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Roro..... add the MSH to the list of incorrects....
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  #25  
Old 05-27-2012, 09:44 AM
vette vette is offline
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That MSH should have triggered some concern, even if it were a US&S, since its finish is so different and worn.

If you paid $1500-1800 you are safe even if refinished. That is about what refinished US&S seem to be saleing for. Does the feedramp have blueing or is it in the white. Pictures of the hammer and just a good left and right profile may help. The hammer pin looks like a bad sign looking at the finish on the pin.
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