Old vs New

[dgludwig]

I can remember all the hoopla generated from the firearms community when SIG first introduced their version of the 1911, the Granite Series Rail (GSR) and the many complaints concerning this pistol that followed shortly thereafter. From what I recall, with the best of intentions, SIG put this pistol together with the best available parts at the time but the execution of the composition fell way short of the mark.
My question is, what is different from the current crop of SIG 1911s as opposed to the original (early) GSR? Was there a complete redesign or just a tweaking of parts/assembly? Or is there any difference at all? Thanks for all inputs/opinions.

[Trikegodtroll]

I tried to figure it out, just have some notes compiled. Good luck on your quest!


barrell/bushing problem =all compacts manufactured since they started the 1911 compact series until about sept. of 2008.


When? Best I can figure out is late 2008. That's when Sig stopped advertising No MIM and, instead, says "SIG SAUER® uses only premium internal parts."



history of the barrel problems with the C3 and RCS






The problem was an overlength barrel on the Compact. The slide would go into battery and the rear portion of the barrel would cycle forward and strike the back of the barrel bushing.






The initial SIG 1911's were simply called GSR which stands for Granite Series Rail. The "Revolution" series is post "man hole" slides when SIG brought everything back in house and made them complete instead of just assembling with little finishing. The current GSR's are indeed all "Revolution series" pistols, in late 08 they changed the rollmarkings so they no long say "Revolution" on the slide. Serial numbers to look for are 7xxx and above.

I do agree that they are quite excellent and very accurate. I carry mine 4 days out of the week. I have owned and currently own several style 1911's, while the SIG is non traditional with its external extractor and SIGesque slide, it is every bit a 1911.

[Trikegodtroll]

Greider Precision
George smith at EGW
Matt McLearn heading the development team for Sig


Bill Silver
Vice President of Commercial Sales
https://www.sigsauer.com/AboutUs/Ma...ls.aspx?BioId=6



EGW + 2004 we were Very fortunate to be involved with the SIG GSR project.


First bum barrel= serial # below 11,000 Storm Lake barrel


Your slide stop and extractor is nickel plated carbon steel.

Parts that I know to be MIM are the slide stop, firing pin stop, both safeties and the disconnector.

or

The extractor is nickel plated carbon steel and so is the slide stop. early rev carry c3?(Greider makes the slide stop).

The external extractor used on the Sig 1911's was designed by Bill Wilson.

The plunger tube is made by Grieder and it is not MIM.

The sears and hammers are not MIM.... EGW brand sear.

Both safeties are MIM. So is your disconnector and firing pin stop.
None of the parts that are MIM really see much stress except maybe the thumb safety and firing pin stop. Two very important parts that are critical to a reliable 1911, the sear and plunger tube, are made by top shelf parts suppliers.


Pretty good quality MIM though by all accounts. The disco, mag catch, grip safety, thumb safety,.
Plunger tube is not MIM. It is a machined part


///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

If your GSR has a Caspian grip safety with the raised spine down the middle, your radius is the Caspian/Wilson radius.
Newer production Sigs that have raised memory bump MIM grip safety are a .250 radius.

It depends on when your Sig was made and what frame it has. If it has a cast Caspian frame and the Caspian speed bump grip safety, the Wilson will work great because that frame has the Wilson/Caspian radius on the tangs already.
If it has a forged frame with a MIM memory bump raised pad, a .250 radius safety is to be used like an Ed Brown, Les Baer, Smith and Alexander or the amazing .245 radius EGW safety.



Properly heat treated 6061T6 has a yield of 20ksi
but I do believe that Colt uses 7075, which is better yet.


///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

recoil spring = 16 lbs

The C3 pictured is a first generation model. They had some issues that Sig fixed. Biggest issue was failure to feed. The newer model does not have the "Revolution" makings on the slide.

Caspian Speed Bump grip safety

SIG hasn't used "revolution" on their guns for quite a while

From gun to gun you may find two styles of grip and thumb safety. Some guns have the McCormick/Caspian center spine style grip safety while others have the memory bump style. Some have extended thumb safeties while other have short versions.

I don't think the new ones have night sights either.

The alloy frames aren't ramped.

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

An all stainless CCO was made through 2010. Stainless compacts have been discontinued, but an all stainless traditional CCO is being released this summer.

The Caspian frame guns have a little round cover on the right rear of the slides. Those guns are the ones with no MIM parts.

Old GSR pistols are made with Caspian frames, Storm Lake barrels and a host of other top quality parts. Yours appears to be a GSR Carry model.
The guns were made over in about 2007 with a few production changes. The gun isn't discontinued per se, they just dropped the GSR name and went with Sig 1911 instead. The older guns are top quality compared to other brands offerings at the time.

Those guns that are a few years old have Novak sights and according to when it was made, if there is a little circle shaped cover on the right rear of the right hand side of the slide, no MIM parts.

The C3 doesn't have night sighs anymore and doesn't have slim grips.

Sig Lites are made by Meprolight, which is known for being brighter than Trijicon

They had a problem with the gsr not the c3

I've found one of the simplest and most efficient ways is to just replace the grip safety with a Caspian grip 'full ridge' safety.

Serial Number-------------Maf. Date------------Updated Barrel (yes/no)
GS105XX------------------XX\XX\XXXX-------------No
GS15XXX------------------April2008----------------No
XXXXXXX------------------Nov. 2008---------------Yes

c3 1911 only= 12-17-2010 ser# gs24785

rcs 25577

2007 is a gsr rev carry

egw has stainless thumb safety... The thumb safety is almost always needs to be fitted


You need a .250 radius grip safety. It needs to have a 'series 80'

there are only two grip safeties in the market today that aren't MIM or cast: Wilson's bulletproof and EGW. Everything else is either MIM or an investment casting.

[Trikegodtroll]

Notes;
early GSR, one from after the initial problems were ironed out

post first release Sig GSR 1911's.


has a tight chamber and some brands of ammo hang up giving
the impression of unrealibility. not true.

The earliest ones had none, 2010 models have two, and current ones are said to have more

Sig does not put the finish on in house. It is a Ion Bond DLC coating.

Some of the GSR's awhile back had an issue with barrel to bushing clearance. The barrel was a smidge too long and would actually contact the rear of the barrel bushing.

Bruce discovered that about 30% of the OEM hook had chipped off-SIG had used a stainless steel extractor, and belatedly discovered (like Beretta went through with their original stainless steel Inox version of the 92F) that stainless steel doesn't make for the best extractors; they've subsequently revised the OEM extractor, and reportedly the issues have gone away.


1; GSR
2; revolution
3; 1911

2nd gen SIG GSR Revolution

the poor finish of the stainless steel. If you’ve ever seen a regular stainless XO the finish is really rough, un-even and just looks like crap.

second generation" GSR, with the SIG in-house produced frame, slide, and barrel, and 25 lpi checkering on the frontstrap.

non-Novak Champion rear sight

features of the GSR is that the plunger tube sits in a channel that's milled into the receiver frame,


They had some sporadic early extractor issues.
No longer a problem. I believe that SIG is now making both the frame and slide "in house" these days.
SIG has made a phenomenal investment in "state of the art" precision machine equipment


hey also replaced my original dressed "milspec" ejector with a new extended nose ejector

SIG will install and test a short 1911 trigger as one of their custom shop options.
Go to the Sig Sauer Firearms website.
You should see a custom shop block to clock on.


I've seen a few XO's lately on Sigforum in stainless that don't have checkered front straps.?

x/o the most outstanding value in an out-of-the-box entry level/base level 1911. to pos?

GSR offers the best gun for the buck. Aside from the bad rap that the gun has taken over the last year or so, i still stand behind them. It's a new gun from a company that never made a 1911 before so there's going to be growing pains without a doubt.


Even though SIG-Sauer has chosen to revise several parts on the XO (I notice that the safety has changed, the disconnnector is made of MIM steel, MSH's seem to be either grooved or checkered, apparently depending on either the whim of the assembler or what is available in the parts bin at the time of assembly, and the rear sights seem to fluctuate between Novak or Champion), and now it seems uncertain as to whether frontstrap checkering will continue on the XO's (I suspect that it will, and that those without the frontstrap checkering that were sold by Bud's Gunshop were probably part of a price-leader volume purchase specifically configured for Bud's), I would still today purchase a GSR over the two above-mentioned choices.


some things needs to be tool steel like the sear and hammer ETC

[Trikegodtroll]

The original 1911 GSR started in 2003/4 with Matt McLearn heading the development team for Sig., with help from George smith at EGW and the Greider Precision co.. This the first all-American SIG with no European design input. McLearn wanted it to look like a Sig.

They used Caspian slides and frames. The external extractor is carbon steel, made and designed by Bill Wilson. Wilson also made the GSR's mainspring housing and extended thumb safety. Slide stop were nickel plated carbon steel made by Grieder. The sear, hammer, and bushing are EGW brand. A Caspian grip safety with the raised spine down the middle. Caspian also did the ejector, firing pin, and firing pin stop. Grieder Precision produced the trigger, plunger tube (.015" slot), and magazine catch, then Novak sights. Those early guns had no MIM parts.
Unfortunately, before the 11K serial number. The storm lake barrels were manufactured wrong, and caused problems. The barrel to bushing clearance was the problem. The barrel was a smidge too long and would actually contact the rear of the barrel bushing.

The guns were again made over in about 2007 with a few production changes
SIG is now making both the frame and slide "in house" these days.
SIG has made a phenomenal investment in "state of the art" precision machine equipment.

Current C3's have addressed all issues. They had some issues that Sig fixed.The problem was with the gsr not the c3.
The C3 doesn't have night sights anymore and doesn't have slim grips. They have Checkmate mags that work well.
MIM parts may be the slide stop, firing pin stop, both safeties,mag catch and the disconnector. Said to be good quality MIM.
The extractor is nickel plated carbon steel.
The plunger tube is made by Grieder and it is not MIM.
The sear and hammer are EGW brand, not MIM.

[Trikegodtroll]

Wilson slide stop



arrell/bushing problem =all compacts manufactured since they started the 1911 compact series until about sept. of 2008.


When? Best I can figure out is late 2008. That's when Sig stopped advertising No MIM and, instead, says "SIG SAUER® uses only premium internal parts."



oldest are SiGARMS GSRs then there were SiGARMS GSR Revolutions...then SiG Sauer 1911s...my SiGARMS GSR Revolution STX is GS09XXX from 2006


(Spring '07) - Pistol Review: SIG Arms Revolution Compact C³

Granite State Rail...even those without the rail...they did morph that to Granite State Revolution Revolution ...now SiG Sauer 1911..


1-21-11....C3 has a carry melt, RCS has slim grips. The C3 2 tone has silver accents on a black frame, RCS has black parts on a black frame. RCS also comes with a Nitron slide option.
I like C3's more.
Very early extractor hooks would break off because the angle was too narrow. They have since redesigned it and it's fine now.
The RCS is the one with the carry melt



11-1-10 RCS has thin grips. If both guns are completely Nitron, that should be the only difference.

The 2 tone models are slightly more different. The RCS 2 tone has thin grips and an all black frame. The C3 has thicker grips and a black frame with stainless parts.











The problem was an overlength barrel on the Compact. The slide would go into battery and the rear portion of the barrel would cycle forward and strike the back of the barrel bushing.






The initial SIG 1911's were simply called GSR which stands for Granite Series Rail. The "Revolution" series is post "man hole" slides when SIG brought everything back in house and made them complete instead of just assembling with little finishing. The current GSR's are indeed all "Revolution series" pistols, in late 08 they changed the rollmarkings so they no long say "Revolution" on the slide. Serial numbers to look for are 7xxx and above.

I do agree that they are quite excellent and very accurate. I carry mine 4 days out of the week. I have owned and currently own several style 1911's, while the SIG is non traditional with its external extractor and SIGesque slide, it is every bit a 1911.







The problem was an overlength barrel on the Compact. The slide would go into battery and the rear portion of the barrel would cycle forward and strike the back of the barrel bushing.






The initial SIG 1911's were simply called GSR which stands for Granite Series Rail. The "Revolution" series is post "man hole" slides when SIG brought everything back in house and made them complete instead of just assembling with little finishing. The current GSR's are indeed all "Revolution series" pistols, in late 08 they changed the rollmarkings so they no long say "Revolution" on the slide. Serial numbers to look for are 7xxx and above.

I do agree that they are quite excellent and very accurate. I carry mine 4 days out of the week. I have owned and currently own several style 1911's, while the SIG is non traditional with its external extractor and SIGesque slide, it is every bit a 1911.

[Onisan]

This is a good question!

I have owned 3 and now own 2 SIG 1911s. Sold the Scorpion cause to big for EDC.

I think SIG was using a vendor to make their slides and frames. Lots of movement and poor quality metals that brought rusting. Light strikes and lots of "loose" pieces.

Since then SIG went back to the drawing board and decided to make everything "in house". "Hand fitted" everything to the tightest of specifications instead of just making the pieces and putting them together. Use only 3-4 pieces of MiM.

SIG went cheap and it showed. They hit the rest button very fast before all creditablity was lost and re-released the SIG Revolution.

SIG for the money and for being mass produced for the masses, has made a 1911 that can compete with anybody. Im not getting paid to say this. I own 2 and love em!

[custom2]

You hit the nail on the head with the first post. They wanted to make a gun with all top shelf parts but poorly executed production. Top shelf parts ( read gunsmith fit parts) on an assembly line don't mesh well together. You have too many variables is parts spec for it to work well and make the guns fast. Mass produced firearms rely on stacking tolerances to be able to be made quickly. Parts need to be within a certain spec or you run into issues when parts that work together are both on the very inner or outer spec.

What Sig has done now is use more MIM which allows them to control stacking tolerance better. They are also machining their own frames and slides which allows them to control the quality of those parts better.

The guns that they are producing now, with MIM parts and all, are so much better built than the original GSR guns.

BTW, That's a pretty impressive list of quotes you got there Troll.

[LEO2B]

http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads...7873#Post97873


Go to the post by "Jon Stein", and continue reading-he goes through the teething processes he experienced and who he worked with. Good stuff.

[dgludwig]

Thanks everybody for your helpful and insightful replies. Earlier this month I purchased a new Model TTT SIG 1911 and became curious as to the differences between it and earlier SIG 1911 pistols, ergo my questions. From reading the posts, I guess I can assume that I have a "Generation III" SIG, replete with mim parts but improved manufacturing techniques.

My TTT model appears to be very well-finished and put-together. I especially appreciate the "combat" configured rear sight that can be adjusted with a screwdriver to change both elevation and windage settings and it's one of the features that caused me to choose this model over other SIG 1911 offerings. I didn't particularly appreciate the relatively high price I had to pay to buy it from a lgs...

Can anyone recommend a quality leather holster having a thumb-break retaining snap that fits in-between the cocked hammer and the slide, either iwb or owb, that will accomodate this pistol?

Thanks again all for taking the time to respond to my questions.

[SIGmanfrued]

I have this.

[Trikegodtroll]

Originally Posted by LEO2B

http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads...7873#Post97873


Go to the post by "Jon Stein", and continue reading-he goes through the teething processes he experienced and who he worked with. Good stuff.

Ha! Nice find! Thanks............................................ ............. Troll

[silversport]

mine was fine in 2007 and great after a going over by Teddy Jacobson...I'd put it up against (and possibly better than) most anything in it's price range stock and beyond if touched by someone who knows what they're doing with the 1911 pattern pistol (I have to pay someone but who knows...could be you )...currently I have Rob Simonich Gunner Grips on mine but this pic with Larry Davidson's shows off Teddy's jeweling better...



Bill

[dgludwig]

SIGmanfrued: From what I can see on your photo, you have a Bianchi paddle holster that's made for a Colt Government model and that this holster will accomodate a SIG 1911 like mine (the TTT Model) with the "squared off" (non-1911 rounded) receiver?

[LEO2B]

Originally Posted by Trikegodtroll

Ha! Nice find! Thanks............................................ ............. Troll

You bet, Mr. Stein does drop in here occassionally, but between him and Hilton, I've not found better resources online. Cheers!

[SIGmanfrued]

Originally Posted by dgludwig

SIGmanfrued: From what I can see on your photo, you have a Bianchi paddle holster that's made for a Colt Government model and that this holster will accomodate a SIG 1911 like mine (the TTT Model) with the "squared off" (non-1911 rounded) receiver?

That is 100% correct, I also use this as a shoulder rig.

[SIGmanfrued]

I can understand people being leary about dropping that kind of money on these holster because they are expensive but the will work and work well. The leather is beyond tight at first, I mean an elephant mateing with a chiwawa tight but after a good break in they fit like a dream.

[dgludwig]

I mean an elephant mateing with a chiwawa tight

Would that be a bull or cow elephant?

[SIGmanfrued]

Originally Posted by dgludwig

Would that be a bull or cow elephant?

More like what was King Kong really going to do with that woman? Has anyone ever thought of that besides me....... Yeah I dont think the elphant type matters unless it was an elephant chiwawa.

[dgludwig]

More like what was King Kong really going to do with that woman? Has anyone ever thought of that besides me.......

Well, I never thought of that before until now. And thanks to you, SIGman, I can't get that imagery out of my mind now...

Yeah I dont think the elphant type matters unless it was an elephant chiwawa.

Your analogy, such as it was, led me to imagine a male Chihuahua consorting with a cow elephant. And I can only hope that that imagery sticks with you for a while as sort of a payback for making me think of things I never would have thought about in the first place.

But leaving Animal Planet for the moment, I'm still interested in getting a quality leather holster (preferably lined) that is made for my SIG Model TTT that will fit without a lot of squeezing and "force-fitting".

[odjoe]

just got it, born on date looks to be 07
short range trip shoots great, does;nt realy like reloads tight barrel

[Trikegodtroll]

Nice score joe..................................... troll

[DOKeefe]

2012-05-22_16-24-59_579.jpg heres my new baby. I love this Sig 1911XO with Trijicon nite and mag well. Wilson Combat mags also

[FB Si]

Originally Posted by DOKeefe

Attachment 82067 heres my new baby. I love this Sig 1911XO with Trijicon nite and mag well. Wilson Combat mags also

That's not an XO. That's a TacOps.

[silversport]

I thought the Tac Ops had an ambi safety...I think DOKeefe has an XO with the extras he mentioned when he posted...it's beautiful by the way...

Bill