1911Forum
Forum   Reviews   Rules   Legal   Site Supporters & Donations   Advertise


Go Back   1911Forum > Hardware & Accessories > Kydex and Leather Gear


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-21-2012, 09:23 PM
kuda427 kuda427 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 173
small of the back




Guys
I have a question or two for the experts
Does anyone here carry there 1911 in the small of the back area?
The reason I ask is,
For me it seems to fit hide and carry well there.
I've heard of people falling on there weapon holstered there and getting hurt
But really,what are the odds?
Are there any good rigs out there for this type of carry?
Or...what about a lefty holster..would kinda do the same thing?
Any thoughts or insight would be great
Thanks in advance
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-21-2012, 09:31 PM
Jdlv4_0 Jdlv4_0 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Central Iowa
Posts: 96
Galco has a couple of decent rigs...


I would say that rather than worrying about the fall issue, I would worry about the draw stroke, there's a couple different ways to draw from this position and they are both less than optimal.

The palm out draw usually results in one sweeping their body with the gun (it's amazing how may swear they don't but they do it every time) and the palm in draw, this one is better, but is the lesser of two evils. Both put you in a bad spot in any kind of close quarters scenario as your arm is now behind your back. With palm out you kind end up kind of chicken winging it...

Both are going to be slower than strong side or appendix etc. Especially with a proper palm out that doesn't include sweeping yourself.

If you spend any amount of time in a vehicle, I would advise against it, ditto for any amount of time sitting.

I had a really nice SOB holster, but it was my car holster and when worn at 3o'clock or so was quite accessible while seated.

I did carry SOB for a short time with a full size 1911, you have to be even more careful when bending as it will stick out more.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-21-2012, 09:50 PM
SRJim SRJim is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Flower Mound, Texas
Age: 51
Posts: 15,184
If you search on small of back, or you might need to get creative in searching, you'll find several good threads, that include good input from several holster makers as to why they will not make a SOB holster.

Some people like it, some people think they do. Others find better ways to carry.
__________________
Kimber Pro Carry HD - Bobtailed
Kimber Combat Carry
"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." -- Thomas Jefferson
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-21-2012, 10:30 PM
jtq jtq is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: NW Florida
Posts: 4,416
Most of the top makers don't make SOB holsters for a variety of reasons from, safety during a fall, comfort while sitting, difficulty of draw (especially while sitting), range safety while training, etc.

Horseshoe Leather is one that does have a couple of well regarded SOB holsters.

http://www.holsters.org/
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-21-2012, 11:18 PM
Jeffw78 Jeffw78 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Missouri
Posts: 513
Not quite SOB but I use a Bodyguard made by D M Bullard at about 5 o'clock. The gun almost lays horizontal with the grip pointed up just behind my hip. I never notice any discomfort while sitting or anything else thought out the day.
__________________
I've owned a lot of guns over the years.
I now have two1911's and I shoot them a lot.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-21-2012, 11:58 PM
mark olindale mark olindale is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtq View Post
Most of the top makers don't make SOB holsters for a variety of reasons from, safety during a fall, comfort while sitting, difficulty of draw (especially while sitting), range safety while training, etc.

Horseshoe Leather is one that does have a couple of well regarded SOB holsters.

http://www.holsters.org/
Plus there is always the chance that you might be taken from behind by a bad guy. Makes drawing the gun from the holster almost impossible.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-22-2012, 03:22 AM
kuda427 kuda427 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 173
All Great points made
gives me something to think on
I just bought a vm2 should have it in a day or 2
plus I have ...The Thing..lol
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-22-2012, 04:08 AM
camillo camillo is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: maryland
Posts: 172
I like it in the small of the back without a holster, belt adjusted appropriately. I find it's comfortable there while working in my woodshop.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-22-2012, 05:55 AM
breamfisher breamfisher is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 67
SOB is decent if you're standing up all day. However, the minute you bend over to get or do something, you'll either print due to your cover garment being pulled tight, or it'll ride up and you'll flash your firearm.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-22-2012, 06:43 AM
NRAJIM NRAJIM is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: FLORIDA
Age: 49
Posts: 547
I have and still carry SOB, I have been carrying SOB with my 5" S.S. 1911 for many years. I have heard the same thing about( if you fall backwards you can hurt your back) alot of people say that, but never in 30 years of carrying have I actually saw or heard of this happening. It would be like saying -If you fall on your side your handgun will break your hip. I have a very bad back and carrying my pistol this way acts like a nice stiff lower back brace. Carry your weapon however your most comfortable, or you won't be carrying it for long as you will find the position to be un-comfortable. As far as the comment about the bad guy coming up behind you, come on seriously if the BG comes up behind you and grabs you your arms will be pinned and your not reaching your sidearm no matter where its located. Be aware of your surroundings and try not to let the boogey man get behind you. As far as driving and comfort, I drive an average of 150 miles per day.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 05-22-2012, 06:45 AM
HungrySeagull HungrySeagull is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,178
SOB is not worth the risks to me.

Also if you don't have retention back there anywhere on the belt, a thug could lift it out and execute you. It's not hard to "Make" a armed person that way.

SOB also contains important nerve bundle centers for you entire lower part of the body. If you start dragging your feet you already may be damaged in the nerves.
__________________
Colt XSE Gov't Tritium sights and various Wilson Combat parts.
Platinum Plus Member USCCA
Old Dogs can learn new things.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05-22-2012, 07:27 AM
Jdlv4_0 Jdlv4_0 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Central Iowa
Posts: 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by NRAJIM View Post
I have and still carry SOB, I have been carrying SOB with my 5" S.S. 1911 for many years. I have heard the same thing about( if you fall backwards you can hurt your back) alot of people say that, but never in 30 years of carrying have I actually saw or heard of this happening. It would be like saying -If you fall on your side your handgun will break your hip. I have a very bad back and carrying my pistol this way acts like a nice stiff lower back brace. Carry your weapon however your most comfortable, or you won't be carrying it for long as you will find the position to be un-comfortable. As far as the comment about the bad guy coming up behind you, come on seriously if the BG comes up behind you and grabs you your arms will be pinned and your not reaching your sidearm no matter where its located. Be aware of your surroundings and try not to let the boogey man get behind you. As far as driving and comfort, I drive an average of 150 miles per day.

Living in Florida (assuming you have lived there all the time you've carried SOB) I doubt you have to worry about a lot of ice and slipping on it. Living in MI, PA, even VA and now IA, slipping and falling is something to be aware of. I've went flat on my back at least once, have come close two or three additional times due to slipping one ice.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05-22-2012, 09:42 AM
pezzulli pezzulli is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: New York
Posts: 409
With so many great holster designs available today, I wouldn't take the risk of carrying in the SOB. As a poster(s) above has said, many of the top holster makers will not make this design. These are people in the "know," Why go against this body of experience, especially when the down-side is so serious. ShXt Happens AKA Murphy's Law.

HTH,
John
__________________
NRA Endowment Life Member
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05-22-2012, 03:43 PM
NRAJIM NRAJIM is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: FLORIDA
Age: 49
Posts: 547
I see alot of comments again of damage/injury's from falling while carrying SOB. Please if anyone can show me an actual report of this happening I would love to see it, because all I keep hearing is so and so said its dangerous. Please show the proof not the second, third hand stories.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05-22-2012, 09:49 PM
SRJim SRJim is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Flower Mound, Texas
Age: 51
Posts: 15,184
Quote:
Originally Posted by NRAJIM View Post
I see alot of comments again of damage/injury's from falling while carrying SOB. Please if anyone can show me an actual report of this happening I would love to see it, because all I keep hearing is so and so said its dangerous. Please show the proof not the second, third hand stories.
There are some comments, but not that many, even in this thread. It is a risk even as little as you think it may be. And yes, carrying just about any way also has risks. However, there are more reasons than the falling issue; it really doesn't seem to be a primary issue, unless I missed posts here that you saw. Most just see the benefits of carrying in other ways.

As said, most top holster makers will not make them and some have explanations on their sites as to why. Many have been in the business for 20-30-40 years and still won't make them but there are a few that do and for those that find a good application for it, you're all set.
__________________
Kimber Pro Carry HD - Bobtailed
Kimber Combat Carry
"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." -- Thomas Jefferson
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 05-22-2012, 10:21 PM
LARRY LAMBERT LARRY LAMBERT is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 603
Jeffw78 has a great suggestion, the Bullard bodyguard is sufficiently "small of back-ish" that you get much of the benefit without some of the drawbacks. Definitely worth a look:

http://store.dmbullardleather.com/ca...tegory/5060218
__________________
Blind faith in one's own competence is found solely among the incompetent. Train your ass off.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 05-22-2012, 10:21 PM
motorsporting motorsporting is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 997
I would look into something like Garrett Industry's Silent Thunder. It's very versatile (360 deg rotation). You can set an aggressive can't and adjust accordingly, hopefully avoiding the SOB and injury.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 05-22-2012, 11:21 PM
Jeffw78 Jeffw78 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Missouri
Posts: 513
Click image for larger version

Name:	ImageUploadedByTapatalk1337746879.432026.jpg
Views:	37
Size:	32.6 KB
ID:	81995
Conceals very well for me under any untucked shirt.
__________________
I've owned a lot of guns over the years.
I now have two1911's and I shoot them a lot.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 05-23-2012, 03:09 PM
Thorgrim Thorgrim is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: "Upper East" Tennessee
Age: 61
Posts: 662
I have a very nicely made Blackhawk leather Check-Six, that particular is made in Italy and the craftsmanship is much better than I expected for the price. However, thanks to a cranky shoulder I can't draw well from it. I think it's not quite a full-on S.O.B. style, more like a 5 o'clock design, and I believe it would work very well for many people. For me, though, the slide would have to be closer to horizontal even a 5:00.

As far as falling on guns, it's usually going to hurt unless you're carrying in a stiff, lined holster like a duty holster (and sometimes, it still hurts). I carried OWB as a back-country surveyor in the Appalachians every day, mostly because of a serious feral dog problem in our area, and it's a given that you're going to fall occasionally. If you're the transitman your chief duty is to protect that expensive instrument, so you fall on your gun sometimes. Again, unless you're carrying in a heavily constructed holster (and sometimes, even then), it's going to hurt. I can see the argument of someone who works chiefly on paved roads and sidewalks worrying about damaging their spine, but if you're carrying in a stiffly backed holster like the Blackhawk I don't know that you'd be worse off than if you fell on an unprotected spine. While I don't doubt the people who think an SOB holster is dangerous, I'm like others in that I've never heard of a specific instance where it was the cause of additional damage. The last time I fell hard it was face forward onto a big slab of sandstone on a steep bank (it was covered by a couple of inches of dirt and I didn't see the hazard), I caught myself on my hands and didn't even faceplant - still, I ruptured a disk.

Hard to say. I do think the right rig for a particular person and situation would work well, but it's an extremely subjective call. Given my limited range of motion, if I were a liquor store or 7/11 clerk I can see it being useful. For me, though, as I said the barrel would have to be nearly horizontal for me to draw cleanly, and it would take a carefully designed holster to keep the butt tucked tightly to the body.

Just my 2p.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 06-01-2012, 03:06 PM
glennster1911 glennster1911 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 138
Not a fan because they print bad went bent over, hard to draw fast for me and if knocked on back and jumped you won;t get your pistol out.
__________________
NRA member USMC 80-84
Colt Kimber Ruger Glock
RRA Mossberg Kalashnikov
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 06-01-2012, 03:53 PM
Itshak Itshak is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Washington State
Age: 66
Posts: 635
Quote:
Originally Posted by NRAJIM View Post
I see alot of comments again of damage/injury's from falling while carrying SOB. Please if anyone can show me an actual report of this happening I would love to see it, because all I keep hearing is so and so said its dangerous. Please show the proof not the second, third hand stories.
I don't think that there are or will be hard documented evidence of cases where people have fallen and hurt their back but logic says that if you slip and fall or are knocked backwards under assault you can damage your spine or even crack or break a few vertebrae.

For you to demand to be shown evidence of that is not reasonable as I don't think anybody here is in the business of documenting injuries due to people carrying SOB.

Also I think that SOB is the slowest and most dificult way to draw a gun with appendix being the fastest if you can wear a cover garment.

I carry at 4 o'clock because i have been carrying like that forever. Because of all the reasons mentioned i would never carry SOB or in a shoulder holster and definitely not cross draw unless I am driving.

Now if you want to carry SOB do so, nobody is stopping you but if all this people are trying to advise someone against it that is not familiar with the down falls of carrying SOB don't come up with a straw man argument from him getting the best advise.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 06-01-2012, 04:24 PM
burkherm1 burkherm1 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Posts: 619
Itshak...why? "I carry at 4 o'clock because i have been carrying like that forever. Because of all the reasons mentioned i would never carry SOB or in a shoulder holster and definitely not cross draw unless I am driving."
Seems like you ruled out several ways to carry. What are you using?
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 06-01-2012, 05:29 PM
GDoily GDoily is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by LARRY LAMBERT View Post
Jeffw78 has a great suggestion, the Bullard bodyguard is sufficiently "small of back-ish" that you get much of the benefit without some of the drawbacks. Definitely worth a look:

http://store.dmbullardleather.com/ca...tegory/5060218
This...I am sitting here in my office with my VBob in the Bullard Bodyguard. Pistol is laid over with grip right about 4 o'clock. This position allows that a slight cock of my wrist rearward is the only change needed to draw in a similar motion as from a 3 o'clock vertical. I have experimented with moving it forward as well.

When my ECO finally comes in, it will be interesting to experiment with what works for me with the smaller pistol. I also carry my P238 in a Bullard Bodyguard at ~ 3 o'clock and it works great. Just feel better with bigger bullets on board....
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 06-01-2012, 06:17 PM
Itshak Itshak is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Washington State
Age: 66
Posts: 635
Quote:
Originally Posted by burkherm1 View Post
Itshak...why? "I carry at 4 o'clock because i have been carrying like that forever. Because of all the reasons mentioned i would never carry SOB or in a shoulder holster and definitely not cross draw unless I am driving."
Seems like you ruled out several ways to carry. What are you using?
Why I don't carry in certain ways?

SOB well that has been answered in prior posts by many here but again.
1) The falling backwards issue and getting injured
2) The dificulty of doing a quick draw.
3) The fact that you are sweeping your body and maybe others behind you that you are trying to protect.
4) If attacked from behind you can't draw or he can snatch your gun if he feels it.
5) Inaccesible and very hard to draw from a sitting positionand also uncomfortable.

Shoulder Holster
1) Very slow draw, across the body that can be blocked by an oponnent. The only time it might be viable is while hunting with a big hand gun for ease of carry.

Cross draw
1) Hard sweeping motion unless carried closer to appendix but then not very concealable. (Strangely long time ago we carried CD in IPSC competition unconcealed but it did not last).
2) Can be stopped easily by adversary if he is close and notices your gun that is normally not concealed.

Ankle
1) Good only under certain circumstances, easy to stumble and normally hard to reach the gun in a standing position the only time it is good is when sitting and as a second gun.

Pocket
1) Great way to carry as you can have your hand on your gun and nobody will suspect you have a gun there. But have roomy pockets not with Jeans.
2)But hard to impossible to draw if you are sitting.

4O'clock
1) Best way for many as gun is well concealed even with an open jacket or vest and with practice can be drawn as fast or faster then most methods also easier to protect gun from a grab and if they dont see it they will not try to grab it.

Appendix

1) Fastest way to draw and most accesible way to carry a gun but must be concealed or you can be prevented from drawing or gun can be snatched like in cross draw but under a tee shirt, sweater or sweat shirt best and fastest way to carry. (I don't carry that way though).

This are the reasons why I think and practice the way I do and believe me I have tried all this methods in the 43 years of carrying handguns and my two favorite ways are 4 Oclock and pocket carry in hot weather.

Last edited by Itshak; 06-01-2012 at 06:20 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 06-01-2012, 06:30 PM
burkherm1 burkherm1 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Posts: 619
Quote:
Originally Posted by Itshak View Post
Why I don't carry in certain ways?

SOB well that has been answered in prior posts by many here but again.
1) The falling backwards issue and getting injured
2) The dificulty of doing a quick draw.
3) The fact that you are sweeping your body and maybe others behind you that you are trying to protect.
4) If attacked from behind you can't draw or he can snatch your gun if he feels it.
5) Inaccesible and very hard to draw from a sitting positionand also uncomfortable.

Shoulder Holster
1) Very slow draw, across the body that can be blocked by an oponnent. The only time it might be viable is while hunting with a big hand gun for ease of carry.

Cross draw
1) Hard sweeping motion unless carried closer to appendix but then not very concealable. (Strangely long time ago we carried CD in IPSC competition unconcealed but it did not last).
2) Can be stopped easily by adversary if he is close and notices your gun that is normally not concealed.

Ankle
1) Good only under certain circumstances, easy to stumble and normally hard to reach the gun in a standing position the only time it is good is when sitting and as a second gun.

Pocket
1) Great way to carry as you can have your hand on your gun and nobody will suspect you have a gun there. But have roomy pockets not with Jeans.
2)But hard to impossible to draw if you are sitting.

4O'clock
1) Best way for many as gun is well concealed even with an open jacket or vest and with practice can be drawn as fast or faster then most methods also easier to protect gun from a grab and if they dont see it they will not try to grab it.

Appendix

1) Fastest way to draw and most accesible way to carry a gun but must be concealed or you can be prevented from drawing or gun can be snatched like in cross draw but under a tee shirt, sweater or sweat shirt best and fastest way to carry. (I don't carry that way though).

This are the reasons why I think and practice the way I do and believe me I have tried all this methods in the 43 years of carrying handguns and my two favorite ways are 4 Oclock and pocket carry in hot weather.
All good info...May not agree with each point within a carry mode, but each mode has valid points. Thanks..Do you have a specific holster maker..or are you off the rack. Also some gun types (length) restrictive to the type of carry mode? your thought?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:29 PM.


NOTICE TO USERS OF THIS SITE: By continuing to use this site, you certify that you have read and agree to abide by the Legal Terms of Use. All information, data, text or other materials ("Content") posted to this site by any users are the sole responsibility of those users. 1911Forum does not guarantee the accuracy, integrity, or quality of such Content.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2011 1911Forum.com, LLC. All Rights Reserved