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  #1  
Old 05-12-2012, 10:58 PM
doc540 doc540 is offline
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What's Causing This?




Just had a BarSto barrel and bushing fitted into the '78 Commander in 9mm.

I've run about 200 rnds thru it since the fit.

Cleaned it today and found this:






I've been using a nylon/plastic bushing wrench since I first got it back, and the tension seems consistent when removing it.

What's going on here and what's the cure?
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  #2  
Old 05-12-2012, 11:08 PM
kite212 kite212 is offline
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How does the lug channel look inside of the slide? I had similar damage from a bbl bushing that was too long and it was hitting the bbl causing the bushing lug and channel some serious damage
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  #3  
Old 05-12-2012, 11:18 PM
doc540 doc540 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kite212 View Post
How does the lug channel look inside of the slide? I had similar damage from a bbl bushing that was too long and it was hitting the bbl causing the bushing lug and channel some serious damage
Of course, I'm not sure what to look for, but I don't seen any unusual wear or abnormal contact areas in the lug channel.

How's it look to you?

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  #4  
Old 05-12-2012, 11:34 PM
220swiftfn 220swiftfn is offline
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Who did the fitting??? Did it look like that when you got it back?? The only thing I can think of is that the smith had to build up the lug to get the bushing tight to the front of the slide, but that just looks "unfinished" to me.....


Dan
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  #5  
Old 05-12-2012, 11:44 PM
BBBBill BBBBill is online now
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Hard to be sure from a pic, but it looks like the front of the lug was built up to pull the bushing in tighter to the front of the slide. Messy weld with poor cleanup? Also chck for the correct recoil spring. If too long, spring stack can bend/break/shear the bushing or the the lug.
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  #6  
Old 05-13-2012, 12:24 AM
CWarner CWarner is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBBBill View Post
..... Messy weld with poor cleanup?... .
I'm going with this...
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  #7  
Old 05-13-2012, 01:03 AM
LOU D LOU D is offline
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Originally Posted by CWarner View Post
I'm going with this...
Yep..Looks like a horrible fitting job to me,too..Already asked,but did you look at it before you shot it?
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  #8  
Old 05-13-2012, 06:58 AM
Jerry944T Jerry944T is offline
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Bubba did some fine work on that bushing.
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  #9  
Old 05-13-2012, 08:51 AM
doc540 doc540 is offline
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I think it was built up for a better fit, but I haven't heard back from the smith yet.

Does it look like anything's being damaged or is it ok to continue to shoot it this way?

I don't feel any slop and it installs and removes like a normal bushing.

(spring length is correct for a Commander)
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Last edited by doc540; 05-13-2012 at 08:54 AM.
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  #10  
Old 05-13-2012, 09:45 AM
sevenL4 sevenL4 is offline
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If it was built up for a better fit and left looking like that, it's time to recall his gunsmith license. I would now suspect all his work. Don't shoot it. How do you know the spring length is correct? Did the gunsmith say it is? Measure it your self. Measure slide I.D. and barrel O.D., Call EGW, get a bushing made that's fitted to your pistol.
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  #11  
Old 05-13-2012, 09:50 AM
doc540 doc540 is offline
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Originally Posted by sevenL4 View Post
How do you know the spring length is correct?
I compared it to the original springs from two of my Commanders and with the springs from two different Wolff Commander kits.

Don't know why, but whenever I modify a gun I keep all the old parts.
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  #12  
Old 05-13-2012, 10:12 AM
BBBBill BBBBill is online now
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Your spring length is probably fine. That said, overall length is not the determinate factor. It is the fully compressed length that matters. That can be:
1. calculated by measuring the wire diameter, multiplying that by the number of coils, and comparing that number to the measured available spring space in the spring tunnel with the spring plug installed; or
2. comparing the limit of rearward slide movement both with and without the recoil spring installed.
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  #13  
Old 05-13-2012, 10:42 AM
LOU D LOU D is offline
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If he put a match bushing in it,you should be removing material from it to fit it,not adding.And if he welded up the stock bushing to get it tighter in the slide,that's just stupid,since the labor to weld up a bushing is twice the price of a new bushing,and he still didn't really do anything,since all he did was fit the bushing to the frame,not the barrel.If all he did was that weld snot,the bushing will loosen up after a few hundred rounds..
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  #14  
Old 05-13-2012, 11:01 AM
Martensite Martensite is offline
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The key question here is, did it look like that the first time you removed the bushing after you got it back? Looks like weld build-up to me.
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  #15  
Old 05-13-2012, 11:39 AM
doc540 doc540 is offline
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I remember something about the matching BarSto bushing not being a good fit (and BarSto not responding) and having to custom fit another bushing.

But I can't say for sure it looked exactly like the pic when I got it back.

I think I just swapped front sights and shot it.

If I did clean it before last night, I didn't look closely at the bushing.

I do know it wasn't finger tight when I got it back, and I've had to use the nylon bushing tool. Still feels snug.

thanks for the ideas
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Last edited by doc540; 05-13-2012 at 11:44 AM.
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  #16  
Old 05-13-2012, 04:24 PM
Gary Wells Gary Wells is offline
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If it were mine, I would get that gun to a good smith in a heck of a hurry. As far as waiting for a response from the 1st smith, if he does that kind of work, he's probably not going to tell you the truth anyway. The smith that did the bushing install I would ensure that he never got his hands on even a water gun or a cap pistol of mine. basically, his ethical values are no better than his gun repair values.
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  #17  
Old 05-13-2012, 04:31 PM
doc540 doc540 is offline
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It's not so bad.

Here's the scoop:

Some time in the past a smith had done work on the inside of the slide to get an aftermarket bushing to fit, making it oversized.

Fastforward to getting the BarSto fitted:

BarSto bushing was too loose.

In order to get the Bauer bushing to fit it had to be welded.

The weld is fine and the bushing fits now, but the Bauer metal is a softer than the weld. It looks worse than it is.

We'll get it worked out and have EGW make a new, oversized bushing for it.

That was the original fix, but they drug their feet so long the welded Bauer became Plan B.

Sure shoots good, though!
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Old 05-13-2012, 06:42 PM
skylerbone skylerbone is offline
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The same smith fit two new bushings to two of my 1911s, one got a new barrel as well. Both are fitted bushing wrench tight and both look precisely as delivered after several hundred rounds each (and a dozen + field strips).

Are you saying a previous smith enlarged the lug channel on the slide and this was a trial fix from the smith who fit the barrel till EGW could machine a one-off custom bushing?
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  #19  
Old 05-14-2012, 09:48 AM
ken_mays ken_mays is offline
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I think EGW made a run of bushings with an oversized lug for slides with the slot cut too far forward, which might help address the issue.
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  #20  
Old 05-14-2012, 12:18 PM
doc540 doc540 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skylerbone View Post
Are you saying a previous smith enlarged the lug channel on the slide and this was a trial fix from the smith who fit the barrel till EGW could machine a one-off custom bushing?
I don't know precisely what a previous smith did to the slide.

Whatever they did, the BarSto bushing which came with the match barrel would not fit the slide.

And BarSto wouldn't respond to Smith #2's request for an oversized bushing.

It's on the way back to Smith #2 who will have EGW machine a bushing that will solve the problem.

And I'm good with that.

With the correct height, Novak front sight and reduced power match ammo, the 9mm Commander is just a dream to shoot. It's going to boost my match performance.
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  #21  
Old 05-14-2012, 12:56 PM
LOU D LOU D is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doc540 View Post
Of course, I'm not sure what to look for, but I don't seen any unusual wear or abnormal contact areas in the lug channel.

How's it look to you?

Exactly..You don't see any wear,and neither do I..You can believe what ya wanna believe,but I'm not seeing any kind of goofyness whatsoever on that slide..If I were you,I'd be trying a stock bushing off ANY 1911 with no barrel/spring,if it ain't EXTREMELY loose,like over .008,I'd be done with mister gunsmith.I mean,really,if that was the problem,I wouldn't do a lousy weld like that and give it back to you,I'd make you aware of the problem,then either recommend a cone bushing,or make a proper bushing to fix the problem,not put that POC in it.All that did was make the problem worse,if it exists,since there's a certain amount of swaging done to the slide when you fit a tight bushing,which,by the way,I also don't see.
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Last edited by LOU D; 05-14-2012 at 12:59 PM.
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  #22  
Old 05-14-2012, 01:24 PM
BBBBill BBBBill is online now
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Originally Posted by LOU D View Post
Exactly..You don't see any wear,and neither do I... I'm not seeing any kind of goofyness whatsoever on that slide..If I were you,I'd be trying a stock bushing off ANY 1911 with no barrel/spring,if it ain't EXTREMELY loose,like over .008,I'd be done with mister gunsmith... All that did was make the problem worse,if it exists,since there's a certain amount of swaging done to the slide when you fit a tight bushing,which,by the way,I also don't see.
Mmmm.... no. You will not necessarily see an out of spec condition. It must be measured. The bushing retaining lug raceway can and often is improperly machined too far forward allowing the bushing to move in and out axial to the slide bore. It appears that the smith was attempting to build up the front face ofthe retaining lug to take out some of the fore and aft movement. While not very neatly done, it should cause zero problem. And that is a legitimate fix, just usually done with more finesse by some of the pros. Bushing skirts are specific to the variant. Commander skirts are shorter for a reason. Using "a stock bushing off ANY 1911" can destroy the bushing and slide. When going the extra mile for a match barrel, loose bushings are not acceptible. And in 48 years of owning 1911s, I've never seen a slide swaged by fitting a bushing.
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  #23  
Old 05-14-2012, 01:27 PM
doc540 doc540 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBBBill View Post
Mmmm.... no. You will not necessarily see an out of spec condition. It must be measured. The bushing retaining lug raceway can and often is improperly machined too far forward allowing the bushing to move in and out axial to the slide bore. It appears that the smith was attempting to build up the front face ofthe retaining lug to take out some of the fore and aft movement. While not very neatly done, it should cause zero problem. And that is a legitimate fix, just usually done with more finesse by some of the pros. Bushing skirts are specific to the variant. Commander skirts are shorter for a reason. Using "a stock bushing off ANY 1911" can destroy the bushing and slide. When going the extra mile for a match barrel, loose bushings are not acceptible. And in 48 years of owning 1911s, I've never seen a slide swaged by fitting a bushing.
That makes sense to me.

And let's not forget that slide over 30 years old, so who knows what's been visited upon it in over 30 decades.
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  #24  
Old 05-14-2012, 04:35 PM
LOU D LOU D is offline
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That makes sense to me.

And let's not forget that slide over 30 years old, so who knows what's been visited upon it in over 30 decades.
Yes,but,you said another gunsmith made it oversize,THAT would be visible..That slide may be 30 years old,but that means nothing,and as Sgt. Schultz says,I see nothing...Try a stock bushing before you waste more money,or worse...
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  #25  
Old 05-14-2012, 04:38 PM
LOU D LOU D is offline
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Originally Posted by BBBBill View Post
Mmmm.... no. You will not necessarily see an out of spec condition. It must be measured. The bushing retaining lug raceway can and often is improperly machined too far forward allowing the bushing to move in and out axial to the slide bore. It appears that the smith was attempting to build up the front face ofthe retaining lug to take out some of the fore and aft movement. While not very neatly done, it should cause zero problem. And that is a legitimate fix, just usually done with more finesse by some of the pros. Bushing skirts are specific to the variant. Commander skirts are shorter for a reason. Using "a stock bushing off ANY 1911" can destroy the bushing and slide. When going the extra mile for a match barrel, loose bushings are not acceptible. And in 48 years of owning 1911s, I've never seen a slide swaged by fitting a bushing.
He said:"another gunsmith made it oversize"..That out of spec condition would be very apparent in the pic,ya can't hide sloppy..And really,unless the last guy was a TOTAL putz,what would he possibly do to the bushing locking groove to damage it that bad? Tossing in any undamaged stock bushing will end speculation post haste..
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