AR for tiny groups

[Live2Ride]

What are the best options for an AR that will shoot tiny groups?

I have a Les Baer .308 that's guaranteed to shoot .5 MOA. So naturally, I looked at the Les Baer .223's for ultimate accuracy in an AR platform. Will a Noveske shoot the same groups? How about a less expensive Colt Accurized Rifle, or even Rock River Arms Varmint A4?

I know that any of them will out-shoot me, but I'm not concerned about that. I'd like to get a rifle in AR platform that is at the top of the accuracy game, and I can work on my own accuracy with more practice. That's what I like about the Les Baer .308. I know it'll do it's job. I just need to do mine.

I have a Daniel Defense V5 for a "battle" type carbine. Just interested in ultimate accuracy for different type of range fun with a .223/5.56. If my Daniel Defense is capable of shooting similar size groups as the Les Baer, I may just put money toward some decent glass and quick release rings, and use the same gun for two different roles depending on the optic I have on it.

[Jefes 1911]

To the best of my knowledge you'll want to go w/ a stainless barrel.

[jonconsiglio]

The Noveske Stainless barrels will be close, but they'll have the advantage of being able to handle 5.56 ammo and will be extremely reliable under heavy firing schedules.

Another option is finding a Mk12 from Centurion or High Caliber sales with a Douglass Stanless barrel turned down by the same people as the issued rifles.

Then, you could have someone like Neil at Gun Gallery build you one with a Noveske or Centurion stainless barrel in a Vltor monolithic upper. This will be a very accurate system as well.

Unless you like the Baer hand guards and overall set up, then those are fine rifles for bench rest and hunting.

[Live2Ride]

Originally Posted by jonconsiglio

The Noveske Stainless barrels will be close, but they'll have the advantage of being able to handle 5.56 ammo and will be extremely reliable under heavy firing schedules.

Another option is finding a Mk12 from Centurion or High Caliber sales with a Douglass Stanless barrel turned down by the same people as the issued rifles.

Then, you could have someone like Neil at Gun Gallery build you one with a Noveske or Centurion stainless barrel in a Vltor monolithic upper. This will be a very accurate system as well.

Unless you like the Baer hand guards and overall set up, then those are fine rifles for bench rest and hunting.

How does the BCM MK12 stack up?

[custom2]

My box stock Sig M400 can shoot .67 inch groups with iron sights at 50 yards. It is a 900 dollar assembly line built AR.

I would invest in some glass and some premium ammo. Your Daniel Defense should be all the rifle you need.

[jonconsiglio]

Originally Posted by Live2Ride

How does the BCM MK12 stack up?

I'm sure it's pretty close and most won't be able to see much difference. I just have a thing for the true Mk12. I like the Douglass barrel and like the fact that the ones available from Centurion and HCS are turned down by Compass Lake, just like the issued Mk12.

It's considered one of the most accurate set ups in an AR that also reliable and combat ready.

As most of you know, that's kind of my thing…

[jonconsiglio]

Originally Posted by custom2

My box stock Sig M400 can shoot .67 inch groups with iron sights at 50 yards. It is a 900 dollar assembly line built AR.

I would invest in some glass and some premium ammo. Your Daniel Defense should be all the rifle you need.

and this is very true. Most underestimate what they already have. I can knock out 2" groups with my BCM 14.5" CHF barrel with xm193 and a T1 at about 85 yards, or whatever that area is at the range.

With match ammo and a quality magnified optic, it tightens up a bit.

[Live2Ride]

Originally Posted by custom2

My box stock Sig M400 can shoot .67 inch groups with iron sights at 50 yards. It is a 900 dollar assembly line built AR.

I would invest in some glass and some premium ammo. Your Daniel Defense should be all the rifle you need.

That may be the route I go first. I might just get a NightForce 2.5-10x32 NXS Compact with a NP-1 reticle to put on my Daniel Defense to see how it does. I can always put that scope on a different gun later, if I choose to do so.

[camillo]

I couldn't be happier with the accuracy of my Wilson Combat Recon 6.8mm AR. Far more accurate than I am. One round hunting.

[Badmanham]

Larue tactical OBRs have very good accuracy as well as the noveskes with SS barrels.

I'm looking at getting the predatOBR in 7.62

[Live2Ride]

I checked out Centurion Arms last night. I liked what I read on their website about the mk12. One of their uppers may be on my future "to buy" list. Still might get a NightForce scope first, though.

[Munch520]

Originally Posted by jonconsiglio

I'm sure it's pretty close and most won't be able to see much difference. I just have a thing for the true Mk12. I like the Douglass barrel and like the fact that the ones available from Centurion and HCS are turned down by Compass Lake, just like the issued Mk12.

It's considered one of the most accurate set ups in an AR that also reliable and combat ready.

As most of you know, that's kind of my thing…

HCS in Carmel, IN is top notch IMO, as is Centurion. Also helps that a founding partner of HCS used to work for Crane I, like Jon, have a small obsession for the 'true' MK12.

Originally Posted by jonconsiglio

and this is very true. Most underestimate what they already have. I can knock out 2" groups with my BCM 14.5" CHF barrel with xm193 and a T1 at about 85 yards, or whatever that area is at the range.

With match ammo and a quality magnified optic, it tightens up a bit.

Match, heavier, ammo helps a lot in my experience, especially beyond 200. I've been very impressed thusfar with Southwest Ammunition's 77gr Run N Gun. I need to get out and try their match 77gr.

Originally Posted by Live2Ride

I checked out Centurion Arms last night. I liked what I read on their website about the mk12. One of their uppers may be on my future "to buy" list. Still might get a NightForce scope first, though.

At last I spoke with Monty (early March) they were not making any MK12s. Kevin at HCS had my upper done and in the mail within a few days of him receiving payment though. He may be a good alternative if Centurion still isn't selling MK12s.

From what I've found, the NavSpec 2.5-10x24s are impossible to find anymore and NF has discontinued them. The 2.5-10x32, while being a bit larger, offers a better FOV which is nice IMO.

[BillD]

Originally Posted by camillo

I couldn't be happier with the accuracy of my Wilson Combat Recon 6.8mm AR. Far more accurate than I am. One round hunting.

Damn near all new guns are more accurate than we can hold them. That's why they make Ransom Rests and sandbags.

[Live2Ride]

What MOA can be expected with a Mk12 build?

[Munch520]

Originally Posted by Live2Ride

What MOA can be expected with a Mk12 build?

0.5 moa, but I'm still sorting out what load it likes best. And I'm a not a pro when it comes to bench/prone precision shooting.

[Live2Ride]

Awesome! Sounds like that's just the type of setup I'm looking for.

[Live2Ride]

So I'm thinking to keep costs lower for myself, I may go with an upper from HCS, pass on the BUIS, bipod, and scope, use the lower from the Daniel Defense I have, use the Leupold Mk4 I put on my wife's Colt LE6940 with ARMS quick release rings, and use the TangoDown bipod I have just laying in the safe. At a later time, I can add the KAC BUIS (if I even really want them), add the Harris bipod, add the NightForce scope and give my wife the Leupold back, and get a complete lower for it so I can put the Daniel Defense back together.

Now I just need to convince my wife that I'm not spending money by getting those things, but instead I'm saving money by utilizing a bunch of parts that I already have.