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  #1  
Old 05-01-2012, 05:33 AM
1911A1FS 1911A1FS is offline
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Magazine Not wanting to seat




When I arrive at the range, I have two magazines with me...so far. I load these before starting any shooting.

Over the past few trips, I've noticed that one particular magazine does not want to insert all the way. So, I go to the other one and it works just fine. Then, after finishing that mag, I can then insert the other one with no trouble at all.

So, the question is: What is preventing the one magazine from inserting all the way at first but works afterwards?

My gun: RIA 1911 38 Super.

One mag is a MEG-AR and the other is a Colt.
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Old 05-01-2012, 06:27 AM
BHP9 BHP9 is offline
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Which mag doesn't seat?

Remove the slide and insert the offending mag, look from the top to see what is catching.
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  #3  
Old 05-02-2012, 01:52 AM
1911A1FS 1911A1FS is offline
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Will do. Thanks for the suggestion.
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  #4  
Old 05-02-2012, 07:38 AM
ttraylor ttraylor is offline
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Could it be the spring is stronger on the offending mag? If you try and insert it first then I am guessing that you slide is closed. If you shoot the other mag first then when you get ready to install the 2nd mag then your slide should be locked back and it makes it easier to insert that mag. I am just guessing here, but it is just a thought.
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  #5  
Old 05-02-2012, 10:07 AM
NIGHT AL NIGHT AL is offline
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Are both mags new? check for sharp edges where the mag fits into the mag. release on the mag. that doesn't want to work at first, I would take the Mag. release out, and apart, clean, check for burrs, re lube.
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  #6  
Old 05-02-2012, 12:07 PM
1911A1FS 1911A1FS is offline
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Thanks, I hope to check this out either this afternoon or tomorrow during my next range session.
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Old 05-04-2012, 04:10 AM
1911A1FS 1911A1FS is offline
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Went on an afternoon outing with some family members and had the same experience with one particular mag not wanting to seat. Once I used the other one, the problem mag would work...but ONLY when the slide was locked back after the last round had been fired. I couldn't figure it out at the range.

But, when cleaning it a while ago, I did some more inspection and I think I've found where the problem is. The mag that is the problem is the Colt mag. If you notice the image below, there is a definite difference in design at the top of the mag where it would meet with the slide stop. As opposed to being "square" like the Meg-Gar, it's more curved. And, this curved area is right where it would meet the slide stop.

I'm quite sure I could file this area down and the mag would then insert correctly.

The Colt is on the right...

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Last edited by 1911A1FS; 05-04-2012 at 04:13 AM.
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Old 05-05-2012, 02:15 AM
1911A1FS 1911A1FS is offline
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I thought I was going to be getting some help here. Mostly, it looks like I'm being ignored.
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  #9  
Old 05-05-2012, 09:28 AM
NIGHT AL NIGHT AL is offline
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Thats what happens when you just buy any Mag without doing some research first, IE. feed lips, we tried to help you but you didn't tell us you had different feed lips, you are not being ignored, if the factory Mag. works why would go by a different name Mag.? RIA pistols are warrantied to function with the factory supplied Mag.s, Pistols are designed to work with certain other parts, when you change those parts, sometimes the outcome is less than desired. put a Chevy. door handle on a Caddy. it may look okay, may be cheaper, but it probably won't work..........
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Old 05-05-2012, 11:42 AM
Cappi Cappi is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1911A1FS View Post
I thought I was going to be getting some help here. Mostly, it looks like I'm being ignored.

nah..

lemmie ask a few questions

you say it seats when slide is locked back

will it seat with slide closed and less than full capacity in the mag ?
if so, is it possible you're just babying it into position??

it's not uncommon to need some force to seat a full mag on the closed slide .
cause the top rnd has to depress a bit and against max spring pressure

your other mag may have a weaker spring

..l.T.A.
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Last edited by Cappi; 05-05-2012 at 11:51 AM.
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  #11  
Old 05-05-2012, 03:06 PM
1911A1FS 1911A1FS is offline
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FTR, I bought the 2nd mag the same day I bought the gun...at the same gun show. It was 'recommended' by an "expert". So, there was no time to do any real 'research' beforehand.

And, what's actually kind of puzzling is that it worked fine during the first couple of outings.

As for whether I'm babying it or not. I very well could be. But, the one that works doesn't require but a nice little snap to get it into place.

From what I see, it seems if I file the area where it's curved to make a corner, I think it would work.
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Old 05-05-2012, 03:45 PM
SoTx SoTx is offline
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What the heck. File it and see if you can get it to work. If not, toss it and buy a new mag. Not much $$ involved.
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  #13  
Old 05-05-2012, 06:18 PM
Cappi Cappi is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1911A1FS View Post
FTR, I bought the 2nd mag the same day I bought the gun...at the same gun show. It was 'recommended' by an "expert". So, there was no time to do any real 'research' beforehand.

And, what's actually kind of puzzling is that it worked fine during the first couple of outings.

As for whether I'm babying it or not. I very well could be. But, the one that works doesn't require but a nice little snap to get it into place.

From what I see, it seems if I file the area where it's curved to make a corner, I think it would work.

you didn't answer a very important question

does it seat easier with only 6 or 7 rnds in the mag??

if it does, filing on that mag won't a do a thing


..l.T.A.
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Old 05-05-2012, 08:01 PM
Cappi Cappi is online now
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[QUOTE=1911A1FS;3852553]



rather than filing on the Colt mag
I'm wondering why the slide stop is banging the mag on right enough to look like it's peen pounded down a bit??

It there any peening on the slide stop notch?
(the cut outs on the "slide")

does the Colt insert fine when empty or less than full??




.l.T.A.
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  #15  
Old 05-06-2012, 05:17 AM
1911A1FS 1911A1FS is offline
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[QUOTE=Cappi;3855535]
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1911A1FS View Post



rather than filing on the Colt mag
I'm wondering why the slide stop is banging the mag on right enough to look like it's peen pounded down a bit??

It there any peening on the slide stop notch?
(the cut outs on the "slide")

does the Colt insert fine when empty or less than full??




.l.T.A.
OK, I can answer this now. It does insert OK if I remove one round from the mag. And, I did test this back and forth several times with all 9 rds in and then removed one. With 8 rds, there's no problem.

I've also manually set the slide stop so that the slide is in the locked position as if the last round had been fired. In that position, the mag loads just fine with all 9 rds. Otherwise, the mag gets stopped with just about 1/8 inch left before it clicks into place. The only thing in the whole area that could be causing resistance is the slide stop itself. There's nothing else there. So, I have to assume that the mag is not specifically designed for this 1911. I do, also, think if I file it down as stated above, it would take care of the problem. Unless there's something about it loading with 8 rds ok instead of the full 9.
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Last edited by 1911A1FS; 05-06-2012 at 05:43 AM.
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  #16  
Old 05-06-2012, 06:26 AM
Ausglock Ausglock is offline
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I had that problem with a Metalform 9 round 38 Super mag in my Kimber.
Got a CMC 10 round spring and follower conversion and fitted it to the mag. Now it loads 10 rounds and inserts with no problems at all.
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  #17  
Old 05-06-2012, 09:34 AM
Cappi Cappi is online now
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Quote:
It does insert OK if I remove one round from the mag.
good ..now we're getting somewhere


Quote:
The only thing in the whole area that could be causing resistance is the slide stop itself.
incorrect, Bro.
the resistance you're feeling the last little bit of travel is the top rnd in the mag pushing against the disconnect rail on the slide ..the slide disco rail is also what strips the rnd from the mag ...so it "has" to be a little lower and make contact w/top rnd in mag




Quote:
So, I have to assume that the mag is not specifically designed for this 1911.
no-sir .
That's a 1911 mag
it just has a stronger spring than your other mag




Quote:
I do, also, think if I file it down as stated above, it would take care of the problem.
unlikely

Quote:

Unless there's something about it loading with 8 rds ok instead of the full 9.
there is..the mag spring is at max compression/strength when fully loaded .
When inserted with the slide closed, the slide disco rail pushes the the rnds down a little more (it has to for proper operation)

More force is required on a full mag ...just like it takes more to load the last two rnds compared to the first two when loading a mag


My Magic 8 Ball is suggesting there's nothing wrong with your Colt mag.
It just has a stronger/better spring in it than the other one

leave the mag fully loaded when stored
and use it plenty at the range when shooting ..it will get easier to seat as the spring takes a set and starts to wear



..L.T.A.
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  #18  
Old 05-06-2012, 03:06 PM
1911A1FS 1911A1FS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cappi View Post
good ..now we're getting somewhere




incorrect, Bro.
the resistance you're feeling the last little bit of travel is the top rnd in the mag pushing against the disconnect rail on the slide ..the slide disco rail is also what strips the rnd from the mag ...so it "has" to be a little lower and make contact w/top rnd in mag






no-sir .
That's a 1911 mag
it just has a stronger spring than your other mag






unlikely



there is..the mag spring is at max compression/strength when fully loaded .
When inserted with the slide closed, the slide disco rail pushes the the rnds down a little more (it has to for proper operation)

More force is required on a full mag ...just like it takes more to load the last two rnds compared to the first two when loading a mag


My Magic 8 Ball is suggesting there's nothing wrong with your Colt mag.
It just has a stronger/better spring in it than the other one

leave the mag fully loaded when stored
and use it plenty at the range when shooting ..it will get easier to seat as the spring takes a set and starts to wear



..L.T.A.
All of this is making pretty good sense...except: Why does it work just fine with the slide locked back? The only real difference I can tell is that the slide lock is pushed up and a little forward when it's in the lock position. How would that allow the mag to fit if the problem is actually the disconnect rail?
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  #19  
Old 05-06-2012, 03:52 PM
Cappi Cappi is online now
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Originally Posted by 1911A1FS View Post
All of this is making pretty good sense...except: Why does it work just fine with the slide locked back?
already explained why.
i'll try one more time, but I'm not sure I can be any clearer .

when the slide is open (locked back) , the slide disco rail isn't over top the rnd




Quote:
The only real difference I can tell is that the slide lock is pushed up and a little forward when it's in the lock position.
it has nothing to do with the slide stop.
the only part of the mag that touches the slide stop is the shelf/ledge on the mag follower
and it only touches it when the mag is empty




Quote:
How would that allow the mag to fit if the problem is actually the disconnect rail?
it's not a "problem" it's the way it "works "

Pull your slide and look at the underside .
see that part of the slide near the rear in the middle?
It's appx 2" long and 1/8" wide.
That's the slide disco rail .
It does two things , depresses the disconnect (the thing sticking up slightly near rear top of frame) .
The rail depresses the disco when the pistol isn't battery , that prevents it from firing til it's in battery and the disco can pop up into that little scallop milled into the disco rail

the other critical thing the disco rail does is strip the rnd from the mag as the slide goes forward .

it has to be lower than the top rnd in the mag..or it wouldn't strip the rnd .
Therefore , when you insert a full mag with slide closed , the disco is forcing the whole column of bullets a little deeper in the mag.

it's not "broke" ...it's simply the way it works


if it seats (and you say it does, you just have to push a little harder) and feeds rnds , there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with ...other than heavier/stronger spring

If you want to try something (before you start sawing with a file)
Disassemble the mag (pay attention to how the spring comes out and is seated ) cause it has to go in "one way" only

clean everything with silicone or similar DRY lube , reassemble



..l.T.A.
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  #20  
Old 05-07-2012, 12:01 AM
root root is offline
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Just bang it home. My kimber mags are a hell of a lot tighter than the factory ACT mag from RIA.

It takes a good firm slap to seat most 8rd mags. If you want yo run 8+1, you have to get used to it. Or you will end up nit seating it and your mag drops when you draw. Doh.:banghead:
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  #21  
Old 05-07-2012, 12:26 AM
ArmyDrQuinn ArmyDrQuinn is offline
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Root, +1. pistols are forceful instruements, they exert force on themselves in their normal use cyclye (feeding, loading, firing, extracting, ejecting recocking). The principle works the same as the logic behind seating a round in the chamber under the full force of the recoil spring. It seats properly, instead of if you guide it. Sometimes we have to show our weapons who's boss. whether racking the slide or slamming a mag home, do it like you mean it. My dad's makarov is a stubborn old thing, and i had a hell of a time getting him to be a little rough with it, especially loading the weapon.
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Old 05-07-2012, 01:18 AM
1911A1FS 1911A1FS is offline
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OK. It definitely is all making much more sense now. And, I "finally" got the issue about the disconnect rail while at work and running this thing through my head.

Also, I picked up both mags a moment ago and, with both of them fully loaded with 9 rounds, I pushed down on the top round with my thumb. I can push the MEG-GAR rounds down about a quarter inch without any problem. On the Colt mag, I can barely push it down even a eighth of an inch...probably more like 1/16 of an inch. So, there definitely is much more resistance on the Colt than the MEG-GAR.

EDIT: I've disassembled and re-assembled that Colt mag a couple of times now to see what's happening inside. The resistance I'm feeling has nothing to do with the spring. It has everything to do with the "tail" of the follower. Once 9 rds are in it, it is all the way down as far as it can go. So, is this a 9 rd mag or is it an 8 rd mag? If I were to file anything -- and I don't really plan to -- it would be to take a bit off the tail of that follower to allow a little bit more clearance at the top when fully loaded.

EDIT #2: Well, I lied. I decided to go ahead and do a little filing on that follower. Took about 1/16 off the bottom end and now the mag loads without issue. Nice little snap at the end. Will need to check it out at the range...hopefully, Tuesday afternoon prior to work.
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Last edited by 1911A1FS; 05-07-2012 at 05:18 AM.
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  #23  
Old 05-07-2012, 08:29 PM
ArmyDrQuinn ArmyDrQuinn is offline
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Good, i'm glad that fixed your problem. Let us know how it performs at the range.


Still, don't be afraid to drive it home. It has a job to do, and it better do it. JMHO
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  #24  
Old 05-08-2012, 07:46 AM
NIGHT AL NIGHT AL is offline
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Now you know what I mean by the door handle comment and design.it took you 7 days to fix a problem........ but you did learn how to make it work, send Cappi a check for his help.........
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  #25  
Old 05-10-2012, 09:27 PM
1911A1FS 1911A1FS is offline
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Finally had a chance to get by the range this afternoon.

The problematic mag is seating properly now without any fuss.

However, on three different occasions, after shooting the first round, the gun would jam due to the next round being pushed too far upward. The first time it did this, I ejected the mag, the round, and the following round that was chambered. Put the two rounds back in and tried again. It repeated the same sequence.

After replacing the rounds again, it proceeded to fire properly.

But, there were two more instances at different intervals during the outing when it got jammed again and I had to repeat the process.

I may do a little more grinding on that tail end of the follower. Unless there may be a likelihood that the spring simply is still too strong and this may fix itself after some more use.

Thoughts?
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Last edited by 1911A1FS; 05-10-2012 at 09:30 PM.
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