My new railed E Series 1911; it's going back

[Oldsalt65]

Originally Posted by GeneticJoe

i recently purchased 4 chip powermags and an 18.5 lb wolfe spring for my e-series 5 inch. i think the mags are great but had problems i think due to the spring. next time im at the range i will try the original spring and see

Although the pistol was continuing to run perfectly with the Wilson Combat 17 lb recoil spring I replaced it with the Wolf 18.5 lb spring I had in my range nag simply to experiment with it.

The original S&W spring appeared to weaken after only a few hundred rounds and I replaced it with the Wilson Combat spring which was still going strong when I swapped it out for the Wolf.

I bought several OEM springs from Midway and they were only about $2.69 each, but they don't really hold up well.

The pistol does run very well with a 17 lb Wilson spring.

After installing the Wolf, the pistol continued to run perfectly and I think I will continue to use these recoil springs in the future.

Since my last post I have put an additional 2000 rounds of solid point range ammunition as well as hollowpoints through the gun consisting of 230 Grain HST, 230 grain RA 45 B, 230 grain WWB and PMC Bronze, all run through the CMC Power Mags that work so well in those pistol.

There has not been a single stoppage or malfunction of any sort and it has gotten to the point that I have absolute trust in this
pistol so long as I use the CMC Power Mags in the gun.

[Foggy]

I'm sure glad I bought the other Wesson. Dan that is. Thought I would fish around the forum a little while tonight because a friend of mine mentioned he was getting a new SW1911SC. I have been keeping up with the threads in the Dan Wesson forum every night for two years now and haven't seen as many issues in all that time with the DW's as I have seen here in just one evening. Good luck with your pistols. They sure are purdy. But I wouldn't put up with all the mess. Not looking to ruffle any feathers. Just an observation ...

[John Eastwood]

My E-Series has a born-on date of 9-22-11. The fit & finish, inside and out, look flawless to this new 1911 convert. I am learning more and more about 1911's each day from this forum so I can educated myself when and if potential problems arise.

I have only fired 100 rounds of WWB 230 FMJ so far through this gun, so reliability cannot yet be established. It's been 100% thus far and very accurate. I'm very impressed with this weapon so far. I'm a Glock guy so I'm used to 1,000 rounds down the pipe (of my JHP stuff) before I call it good however.

I noticed your post-date on each of your returned E-Series was back earlier in the year. Hopefully some things have changed up in Houlton since your rocky start. As you noted, later pistols are supplied with the SS mags. Mine came with 2 SS mags and I have yet to locate any markings on them indicating the manufacturer.

My pics kind of suck but I have a few close-ups of my 9-22-11 build E Series. Maybe they will help or maybe not, but shared pics can sometimes find flaws that one may not see on their own.

As a side-note, does anyone else see the irony in the fact that there is a Smyrna St. in Houlton Maine?



My E-Series with Crimson Trace grips. I have these and the standard ''E'' grips.





I noticed a poster said his checkering was awful. Mine looks good to me.





Stainless Steel mags included with the gun NIB.





And finally, some terrible fuzzy pictures of the chamber.

[Oldsalt65]

Originally Posted by John Eastwood

My E-Series has a born-on date of 9-22-11. The fit & finish, inside and out, look flawless to this new 1911 convert. I am learning more and more about 1911's each day from this forum so I can educated myself when and if potential problems arise.

I have only fired 100 rounds of WWB 230 FMJ so far through this gun, so reliability cannot yet be established. It's been 100% thus far and very accurate. I'm very impressed with this weapon so far. I'm a Glock guy so I'm used to 1,000 rounds down the pipe (of my JHP stuff) before I call it good however.

I noticed your post-date on each of your returned E-Series was back earlier in the year. Hopefully some things have changed up in Houlton since your rocky start. As you noted, later pistols are supplied with the SS mags. Mine came with 2 SS mags and I have yet to locate any markings on them indicating the manufacturer.

My pics kind of suck but I have a few close-ups of my 9-22-11 build E Series. Maybe they will help or maybe not, but shared pics can sometimes find flaws that one may not see on their own.

As a side-note, does anyone else see the irony in the fact that there is a Smyrna St. in Houlton Maine?



My E-Series with Crimson Trace grips. I have these and the standard ''E'' grips.





I noticed a poster said his checkering was awful. Mine looks good to me.





Stainless Steel mags included with the gun NIB.





And finally, some terrible fuzzy pictures of the chamber.

Those are great pictures; thanks for posting them.

I've been shooting this pistol every week since my last post and it continues to be perfect with the Chip McCormick Power Mags, so they are what I will use in the gun from now on.

The pistol has been as accurate as I want it to be and the action is, to use a hackneyed term, as smooth as glass and compares very favorably to other, higher end and more costly 1911 pistols my friends own.

After a shaky E Series introduction; I would have absolutely no hesitancy in purchasing another or recommending one of them to a friend.

[SA1911A1/45]

Very nice write up, review, and explanition of events. Glad that things were finally worked out for you.

I went to CMC mags years ago on the advice of a magazine article.

[Esquilax]

I originally posted this on page 31 of the E Series Issues thread about a week ago, and Old Salt suggested sharing my experiences so far in this thread:

I bought my SW1911Sc E Series brand new in October as my first 1911. On my first trip to the range with it, the first round from the very first magazine wouldn't chamber, and things didn't improve much from there during the 50 rounds I fired through it that day. I couldn't get it to feed an entire mag without failing to return to battery at least once. Sometimes a tap to the rear of the slide would get the round to chamber all the way, sometimes not. This was with just the two factory magazines (contracted by CheckMate, I believe) and some Remington 230gr factory ball ammo. I also had some brass hitting me in the forehead. How they ever managed to test fire it at the factory I'll never know.

Oh well, I figured. That's why we have warranties and customer service on our new toys. So I ended up sending it to one of the warranty centers out west since other people on here had had better results with them than with S&W itself. About a week and a half later, my pistol was delivered back to me. I opened the box to find my pistol, my magazines, and an invoice detailing the work performed.

The invoice said that the extractor had been replaced and tuned to eject properly, but nothing was done to address the feedway problems because the magazines I sent were "not S&W." I confess I was rather aggravated with that, because the magazines I sent with the gun were the two that came in the box with the gun (indeed they were the only 1911 mags I owned at the time).

Okay, I decided at this point to only deal with Smith & Wesson directly from here on out. In the meantime, I picked up a couple of CMC mags to see if I could chalk the problem up to a couple of bad factory mags. Nope. Another 75 rounds or so through it, same problem, no matter which mags I used. Alright, off she goes to the Houlton, ME plant for some TLC from S&W. I sent a few pictures of my various malfunctions to help things along.

About two weeks later, I get my gun back again. I start off by hand cycling as many different kinds of ammunition as I can through it, since the weather wasn't cooperating with my plans to visit my local range. No issues to speak of when manually cycling more Remington ball, some 230gr Winchester Ranger-T I had picked up, some 230gr Golden Sabers I had laying around for my Sig, and some of that novelty Hornady 185gr Zombie-Max that I had grabbed for a laugh. All of my magazines, now including a couple of Wilson Combat 47Ds, fed everything without a hitch when cycled by hand.

The invoice from S&W said that the frame to barrel fit had been tweaked, and the barrel had been modified. The barrel hood certainly looked much smoother and more polished. They also didn't say anything about my magazines being "not S&W." Okay, I'm getting a good feeling about this one now.

So I take it down to the range, and get some good news and some bad news. On the plus side, the gun was much more reliable than it had ever been as I put around 150 rounds through it. I could actually get a whole magazine to feed through it, and found it to be a very pleasant gun to shoot with a pretty nice trigger. However, every two or three magazines I would still get a failure to return to battery. The Wilsons, ironically, had the most trouble, usually on the last round but not always. The factory mags fared a little better but still gave me sporadic jams. The only issue I had with the CMC mags was one premature lockback, but I'm avoiding using them until I can switch out the followers to something that doesn't ding the frame just below the feed ramp. None of the different types of ammo seemed to make any difference with regards to jamming. The CMC magazines were promising, but I felt like they were masking an underlying problem with the gun that really ought to be solved.

Oh, and to top it all off, I was getting brass in the face again.

So I send it to Smith & Wesson again, and get it back about two weeks later (which was this past Tuesday). They replaced the extractor and ejector this time, but said it fed fine when test-fired with 50 rounds of Federal 230gr FMJ and was found to be in-spec. Hmm.

Back to the range yesterday. I used Federal FMJ this time instead of Remington, but the story was more or less the same as the last one, minus the erratic ejection. The first attachment at the bottom shows one of the typical failures I was having.

Then, while cleaning the pistol last night, I find a long scrape running along the inside the dust cover on one side where the lower part of the slide travels inside it. This is shown in the second attachment. There was no marring on the slide except for a smudge in the corresponding area that wiped off. I really don't know what to make of it, and don't remember noticing it before. I don't know if it could be contributing to the issues I've been having but it certainly doesn't look right to me.

[...]

I don't want to give up on the gun since it wasn't cheap and I have put a lot of time and effort into getting it up and running. As it stands today I have spent a considerable amount of money on it and three and a half months later I still don't have the confidence in it to use it for its intended purpose (daily carry).

Right now I'm looking to get it replaced. I've spent quite enough on the gun and on ammo to test it with, not to mention the time it has taken, and I still haven't got a properly functioning pistol out of the deal. It's been back to S&W twice now and even if they give it a clean bill of health again I don't see that putting my doubts to rest.

One thing I will say is that Smith & Wesson's customer service reps are always very accommodating. I can't imagine how much more nerve-wracking this experience would have been if that were not the case.

As it stands now, I sent S&W an email on Wednesday asking for a return shipping label and yesterday received a reply that one will be arriving sometime in the next 5 business days, along with a reassurance that S&W will make it right. I will be very happy if they do. I am also drafting a letter to send to James Debney, S&W's president in hopes that it might help get the ball rolling.

I'd like to thank everyone for the advice I've received on how to finally get this straightened out.
Casey

[Oldsalt65]

Originally Posted by Esquilax

I originally posted this on page 31 of the E Series Issues thread about a week ago, and Old Salt suggested sharing my experiences so far in this thread:



Right now I'm looking to get it replaced. I've spent quite enough on the gun and on ammo to test it with, not to mention the time it has taken, and I still haven't got a properly functioning pistol out of the deal. It's been back to S&W twice now and even if they give it a clean bill of health again I don't see that putting my doubts to rest.

One thing I will say is that Smith & Wesson's customer service reps are always very accommodating. I can't imagine how much more nerve-wracking this experience would have been if that were not the case.

As it stands now, I sent S&W an email on Wednesday asking for a return shipping label and yesterday received a reply that one will be arriving sometime in the next 5 business days, along with a reassurance that S&W will make it right. I will be very happy if they do. I am also drafting a letter to send to James Debney, S&W's president in hopes that it might help get the ball rolling.

I'd like to thank everyone for the advice I've received on how to finally get this straightened out.
Casey

Good luck Casey; Smith &Wesson definitely has the resources to make things right and they need to apply them in your case as they did in mine.

I suggest that your correspondence to Mr. Debney take the form of a written letter sent by registered mail and that it calmly outlines the problems you have experienced as well as customer services inablility to solve the problems inherent in your pistol.

I also recommend that you send a copy of that letter to Kate Fredette at customer service as well.

Please let us know the progress and outcome; I'm hoping that your problems will be resolved as satisfactorily by Smith & Wesson as have been mine.

[Esquilax]

Thank you very much for the help, Mark. I'll be sure to do that. I plan on sending both letters and the pistol out on Thursday.

I'll keep you all posted.
Casey

[Gary1911A1]

Reading this thread doesn't make me confident S&W will fix mine.

[ColColt]

OldSalt-I was having problems with the SW1911SC feeding 230 gr GDHP's and Federal's HST. Jammed all the time usually a bolt over base malfunction. I swapped the springs out in a couple of the mags with Wolff11# springs and got the dimpled flat follower with skirt and on a few others bought the Check Mate 7 round spring kit with follower and it fixed my problem. Both instances of failures to feed I had involved spring issues. A stronger spring and different follower seemed to work for me. I think my slide was outrunning the magazine. My Commander had the same problem and I changed out the spring to a 16# spring and the same with the mags and now it's functioning great as well.

1911Tuner was the one who turned me onto this information and he's the one I give accolades to for helping solve the problem. A fellow at Cast Boolits is another reason my SW1911SC runs good today. I pay attention to those that forgot more than I'll ever know.

[kennethhardy]

that sucks man. very sorry for your troubles.

[skylerbone]

It was OldSalt's original thread that finally broke me of the S&W subforum as each failure upset me more. I'm still a bit disappointed that all's not quite well and when I see other members of various forums recommend the E-Series I'm compelled to reply to the contrary. I do hope they sort things out for everyone as mine is a joy to shoot and still failure-free, so much so that last week I grabbed non-resized spent brass off the bench and chambered empties to see if it would. It did, every time.

[ColColt]

People talk about the eternal extractor on a S&W and how they wouldn't have one. I can give testimony to the fact it's been the most trouble free system I've ever had. I've had several 3rd Gen pistols and now the SW1911SC and the extractor has never been a problem. Apparently, S&W knows how to make a pistol run with the external extractor if no one else does.

I've had more issues with magazines and springs that anything else and with the 1911 be it a Colt, Kimber, S&W or otherwise, if you get that down it's a piece of cake from that point on as the vast majority of problems I've had have been in that area.

[Oldsalt65]

Originally Posted by skylerbone

It was OldSalt's original thread that finally broke me of the S&W subforum as each failure upset me more. I'm still a bit disappointed that all's not quite well and when I see other members of various forums recommend the E-Series I'm compelled to reply to the contrary. I do hope they sort things out for everyone as mine is a joy to shoot and still failure-free, so much so that last week I grabbed non-resized spent brass off the bench and chambered empties to see if it would. It did, every time.

Any and all manufacturers do let the occasional turd go out the door, even turds that should have been extraordinarilly easy to spot and cull during any one of the several stages of production and testing.

Look at the pictures, I'm amazed that Ed Brown let this one leave the factory and end up in a customer's hands.

The internal frame looks like the proverbial pistol which was made in a cave in Pakistan by a blind 10 year old opium addict.

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=351871

It's how the company ultimately rectifies the problem that should drive the purchasing decision IMO.

Because no name or roll mark on the pistol guarantees that a properly functioning, or cosmetically acceptable gun will be delivered to you in the initial instance.

[skylerbone]

Agreed Salt but in this case I'm seeing an alarming trend. I do hope they'll be back on my thumbs up list soon. My hats off to S&W for their service but the E-Series is showing a trend.

[Oldsalt65]

Originally Posted by Esquilax

Thank you very much for the help, Mark. I'll be sure to do that. I plan on sending both letters and the pistol out on Thursday.

I'll keep you all posted.
Casey

Any word from S&W yet on how they intend to handle your problem and when you will be receiving your pistol or, if necessary, a replacement, back from them?

[Gary1911A1]

I'm pleased to report S&W has fixed my Pro 1911 in 9MM. I took it to the range last Friday and it was 100% reliable. I had to adjusted the grip safety myself, not a big thing, as they said it was within specs. I'd get another, but I would prefer it worked out of the box and didn't need to be sent back. Overall I'm happy. Now to look at some warren sights or something else my older eyes can see better.

[WNC-shooter]

Oldsalt65....

At $1,200.00 plus sales tax, FFL fees (if any), all the testing ammo (about $600.00?), springs, aftermarket mags ($100.00+?) and months of fidutzing...... you still give this a thumbs up?

You've got $2,000.00 (+-) invested in getting a $1,200.00 gun in working order. You are much more forgiving than I am.

[Oldsalt65]

I took great pains from the very first not to engage in either "fanboyism" or hate when bringing this topic to bear here.

The original pistol was unacceptable and the company replaced it witness that I am extremely satisfied with.

I certainly wish I could have gotten satisfaction in the first instance, but the company did do what it could to ensure that in the end, I would receive a pistol that would satisfy me.

There are other occurrences wherein much more costly semi custom "name" pistols were delivered to their buyers in unacceptable condition and in time, the makers acted in a manner to bring satisfaction to the customers.

And some where they did not; but Smith and Wesson did ultimately provide me with a fine pistol that is both accurate and reliable albeit, not with the factory magazines that shipped with the gun.

I'm certain that S&W customer service would replace the originalACT magazines with the newer type from another manufacturer that they now ship with their pistols but I have been receiving 100% reliability, for thousands of rounds, from the CMC Power Mags and I'm not inclined to perform another science experiment to test the new S&W factory Magazines.

So far as the outlay of money for ammo and range time I put into the original pistol which was replaced, I had already stated previously in this thread that for what I put into the pistols; I could have purchased a Les Baer.

It is what it is; and I wish that the E Series 1911TA I have now is the pistol I originally received but unfortunately, it wasn't.

When I speak to my satisfaction level with my E Series 1911TA, I'm talking about the replacement pistol and I won't allow my total disappointment with the gun the company replaced to taint what's have to say about the one I have now.

Based on my experience with my present E Series 1911 TA, I can honestly state that it is a fine pistol and worthy of consideration when looking to buy a 1911 at its price point.

To point people away from these guns because I initially received a lemon would be IMO, less than honest of me.

You are 100% correct in your assertion that due to the circumstances surrounding my personal experience with the initial, defective, pistol, I'm into this gun for far more money than I should have had to be to get to where I am today.

Frankly, I believe the company should have sent me some ammo or some other consideration for my expenses.

Nevertheless; I believe that they are still worthy of consideration in their price range because they are fine pistols.

And I also keep in mind the fact that although every company will allow the occasional turd to slip through the cracks; not every company will go so far as S&W to repair it or replace it; so that plenty of purchasers are stuck with lemons that never give them satisfaction.

It's not so much that I am "forgiving" as it is that what's done is done ; I like my E Series 1911TA a lot and have been shooting it virtually every week with excellent results over thousands of rounds of all sorts of ammunition.

[Oldsalt65]

Originally Posted by Esquilax

Thank you very much for the help, Mark. I'll be sure to do that. I plan on sending both letters and the pistol out on Thursday.

I'll keep you all posted.
Casey

I'm dying to know how this all worked out; did you get your pistol back from S&W yet?

[Esquilax]

Originally Posted by Oldsalt65

I'm dying to know how this all worked out; did you get your pistol back from S&W yet?

Hi, Old Salt. Sorry about the wait; I didn't mean to leave you hanging but I was waiting until I had something substantial to report for you guys.

Shaun Phelan from S&W's customer service attempted to reach me on Monday of last week, and after a bit of phone tag due to my unusual work schedule we were finally able to talk this past Tuesday and today. It was decided that the pistol will be replaced and customer service rep Jeff Webb contacted me this afternoon to arrange for my local FFL to send a copy of their license. At around 6:30 this evening I went to my preferred dealer and we faxed it to them. I was told that they are currently backordered on my particular model of pistol but that I will be given priority over their other orders and the wait will likely be around two weeks.

I'll be sure to let you guys know when the new pistol arrives, and how it performs.

Best,
Casey

[Oldsalt65]

So Casey; how did Smith and Wesson treat you?

Did they ever replace your E Series 1911 as promissed, and if they did; how is the replacement pistol working out for you and are you satisfied with it?

You just have to let us know how this all worked out for you.

[Esquilax]

Hey guys, sorry it took so long to get back to you all.

I actually just got my replacement pistol back today, about three and a half hours ago.

Smith & Wesson made good on their promise and Fed-Exed a brand new pistol fresh off the assembly line to my local FFL. They were backordered on my particular model but told me that my order was given priority over others because it was a replacement. In total I waited about a month and a half.



The new pistol is looking great. I have not had time to shoot it yet, but hand-cycling a few mags through it yielded no issues (unlike when I first got my old pistol). For what it's worth, the feed ramp is much smoother than the old one was. There's even a fair bit of brassing on the breech face and ejection port, which suggests to me that it may have been test-fired a bit more than usual to make sure it was functioning properly.



I'm also pleased to see some of the updates made to this model since my previous one was made. The mainspring housing is now checkered instead of serrated, and I like the way it feels (the spots on it in the picture are just bits of dust and grime from me handling it). The grip safety is a little different as well, with fewer sharp corners and edges. The trigger feels pretty much the same as my old one, and the thumb safety looks the same but has a more positive on/off "click" to it.

Oh, and I've already put in a 10-8 mag catch, 10-8 grip screws, and a standard recoil spring guide/plug setup from Ed Brown. A 10-8 rear sight, 10-8 slide stop and possibly an EGW righty-only thumb safety are in the cards as well.



I will be sure to give a full report as soon as I have a chance to shoot it.

Thanks again for all the advice you guys have given me; it really is appreciated.

Casey

[gle3105]

Man o man, Salt these writings are better than any gun magazine could offer. Sorry to hear of your aggravation with such a fine firearm.
My own S&W is a PC1911 made in 04. It performs flawlessly. Shoots limp wrist,gangsta style (no I don't shoot like this ,just running through scenarios) different mags and not ammo finicky . Lucky guy I suppose. My favorite is 200 SWC.
BTW I love 22 conversions.
Anyways, thanks for your articulation.

Greg WV

[Esquilax]

Alright, so after putting around 200 rounds or so through my gun I have found it to be 100% reliable, as long as I don't use Wilson Combat 47Ds. The Check Mates, my CMC Power Mag+ and CMC Shooting Star with Power+ follower were all flawless. I fed 230gr FMJ ammo from S&B and Winchester White Box as well as a box of 230gr Winchester Ranger-T JHPs. My only real complaint is that the extractor spring must have the wrong amount of tension because I was again getting the occasional casing in the face.

Rather than have to send it back to S&W only to have them not solve the problem for the third time, I'm just going to have the extractor looked at when I bring it to a gunsmith to fit a non-ambi thumb safety and install my 10-8 rear sight.

As it is I consider the reliability issue solved, and am now satisfied with my purchase with the one caveat of the extractor tension.