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  #251  
Old 05-02-2012, 11:02 PM
Kodadek Kodadek is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thermas07 View Post
Thanks Kodadek, that's what I was getting at when bringing up the AK: that it's simply an easy to use and rugged weapon that servicemen could easily maintain and operate in a firefight. I just thought it was a good comparison for making my case for the the G21 as Glock is also a supremely rugged weapon system that is easy to maintain and completely reliable in most any condition.
Yeah, school kids in Russia practiced disassembling and reassembling the AK. Average time was some fifty seconds, part of their pre-conscription program. Incredible how simple the design was, that it survived the austere conditions of Vietnam and was wielded by poorly trained peasants with little knowledge about maintaining a weapon speaks towards its ruggedness and reliability. Their combat record against a modern military, with a vast technological gap is hardly a snub against the AK.

Not a Glock fan per say but the system is proven and it works. If the military ever adopted it (unlikely) I'd wager they'd demand an thumb safety of some sort. Recently they had the JSOC pistol trials and everyone from Taurus to H&K, Para, FNP, etc fielded a .45, Para was the only company to offer a steel framed pistol, the rest was fantastic plastic.
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  #252  
Old 05-03-2012, 02:49 AM
fadedsun fadedsun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kodadek View Post
Hate to break it to you but trained soldiers, backed with force multipliers like M249s, M203's, MK19s, 25mm canons on Bradley Fighting Vehicles, and a plethora of other goodies have been beating often poorly trained and equipped enemies with whatever they could get their hands on. Georgia replaced their AKs with Bushmaster select fire AR-15s, to get rid of a symbol of oppression. When the Russians rolled in and hostilities ensued the Russian infantry was walking around collecting dropped and discarded M4s. I'd wager you could equip the Taliban with the Stoner platform and give our military the AK, RPK, PKM, etc...and we'd still walk all over them. AKs do what they're designed to do, they do it effectively, nothing more nothing less. They aren't five hundred yard killing tools, they were designed to be easy to produce, cheap to maintain, functional, reliable, and work within the ranges of the modern battlefield. They were such a game changer that our military prematurely adopted the M16 without proper trials or field testing and as a result many soldiers and marines were injured and/or killed try to jam a stuck casing from the chamber. Kalashnikov had the insight and ingenuity to chromelined the barrel and the chamber, to use a durable finish, all things that our much more industrialized nation failed to consider important. The M16 series weapon has never "beat" the AK, that's just nonsense, in many ways the AK was and is superior to the Stoner pattern rifles.

Heck, all this talk makes me want to go get an M9A1 to go with my 1911s and heck, it'll match my Cx4 carbine, uses the same mags too. Guess I should save up some pennies.
The m16 series, in my opinion, is light years ahead of the Ak. More comfortable to shoot. More accurate. More user-friendly. More accurate to longer distances. Better sight picture. Better magazine changes. More accurate round, too.

Years ago I was a big AK guy and had 3 AKs and parts kits. Now I own none. I had a horrible experience with a custom built AK which really sent me the other way. Kaboomed once requiring a 2 month rebuild. Rebuilt. Failure to feeds with anything but steel case FMJ or Soft points (Winchester brass did not shoot well), poor accuracy, bad sighting system, etc. My m4 beat it at everything. I sold it off at a loss at a gunshow and bought an LMT m4 and never looked back.

It was a very pretty gun but times have changed. This is 2012. I'm an American and I know how to use a rifle and not some illiterate conscript who must be told to not piss in the well where he draws drinking water from.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kodadek View Post
Yeah, school kids in Russia practiced disassembling and reassembling the AK. Average time was some fifty seconds, part of their pre-conscription program. Incredible how simple the design was, that it survived the austere conditions of Vietnam and was wielded by poorly trained peasants with little knowledge about maintaining a weapon speaks towards its ruggedness and reliability. Their combat record against a modern military, with a vast technological gap is hardly a snub against the AK.

Not a Glock fan per say but the system is proven and it works. If the military ever adopted it (unlikely) I'd wager they'd demand an thumb safety of some sort. Recently they had the JSOC pistol trials and everyone from Taurus to H&K, Para, FNP, etc fielded a .45, Para was the only company to offer a steel framed pistol, the rest was fantastic plastic.
There's already quite a few pistols that don't have manual safeties and are used fairly commonly in the military. The Sig 228/226 and Glock 19,17, and 22 don't have external safeties of any kind yet are very commonly used in the SOF community. The HK P30 knocks the socks off the Glock and Sig. I'd hope if we were going to go with a polymer framed 9mm gun it would be that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joedel View Post
If the M16/M4 and AK47 are my choices, if I was equipping a well-trained, well-supplied professional army I would go with the M16/M4, if I was equipping a poorly trained and marginally supplied insurgent force I would go with the AK47.

The HK 416 is superior to both, as is the G36.
The Hk 416 isn't all it's cracked up to be. Yes, nice weapon. Yes, fairly reliable. But what does it do that a normal m16 or m4 doesn't? Shoot well suppressed....that's it.

The G36 is a mediocre gun and there's a reason the Germans push the 416 over the G36 now. The capitol police had theirs for a short while before ditching them for 416s.
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  #253  
Old 05-03-2012, 10:05 AM
Kodadek Kodadek is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fadedsun View Post
The m16 series, in my opinion, is light years ahead of the Ak. More comfortable to shoot. More accurate. More user-friendly. More accurate to longer distances. Better sight picture. Better magazine changes. More accurate round, too.

Years ago I was a big AK guy and had 3 AKs and parts kits. Now I own none. I had a horrible experience with a custom built AK which really sent me the other way. Kaboomed once requiring a 2 month rebuild. Rebuilt. Failure to feeds with anything but steel case FMJ or Soft points (Winchester brass did not shoot well), poor accuracy, bad sighting system, etc. My m4 beat it at everything. I sold it off at a loss at a gunshow and bought an LMT m4 and never looked back.

It was a very pretty gun but times have changed. This is 2012. I'm an American and I know how to use a rifle and not some illiterate conscript who must be told to not piss in the well where he draws drinking water from.



There's already quite a few pistols that don't have manual safeties and are used fairly commonly in the military. The Sig 228/226 and Glock 19,17, and 22 don't have external safeties of any kind yet are very commonly used in the SOF community. The HK P30 knocks the socks off the Glock and Sig. I'd hope if we were going to go with a polymer framed 9mm gun it would be that.



The Hk 416 isn't all it's cracked up to be. Yes, nice weapon. Yes, fairly reliable. But what does it do that a normal m16 or m4 doesn't? Shoot well suppressed....that's it.

The G36 is a mediocre gun and there's a reason the Germans push the 416 over the G36 now. The capitol police had theirs for a short while before ditching them for 416s.
The Sig is used by select parties like the SEALs, some pilots, criminal investigation units, so on, so forth. However for the rank and file the powers that be, the bereaucrats barely trust a grunt on a training exercise with blanks. The system as a whole is very safety centric on a whole.
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