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  #51  
Old 05-02-2012, 08:35 PM
LOU D LOU D is offline
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Sorry guys,but the Bullseye shooter might just as well shoot himself.Bullseye shooters start their strings gun in hand,pointed at the target,sights aligned with the Bullseye before the buzzer even sounds.Any IDPA,IPSC,USPSA,ETC,shooter practices over and over ONE thing..TARGET ACQUISITION.He'll get the gun up,have both hands on it,and do a triple tap on the BE guy before he even gets his sights aligned..Now,of course,that's based solely on the theoretical suposition that the shooter ONLY shoots BE,not that he's ex military,ETC,or shoots any other type of competition,since that voids the whole premis of "Bullseye VS. USPSA,since you're bringing other factors into the scenario...
There was an old BE guy in my club,who once told me I couldn't REALLY shoot,guys like me weren't accurate,just fast,called me an "area shooter"..Just happened to have my Gold Cup with me,threw down the gauntlet..We shot,we tied..I could shoot as good as him one handed slow,but he still can't shoot fast..In any action gun competition,we shoot two hands,one hand,strong hand,weak hand,fast,slow,long,short,sitting,standing,running ,ETC,how can a guy who shoots only one handed while standing perfectly still at set distances starting with his gun pointed at the BE possibly be faster? Truthfully? I'd bet I could start with the gun in the holster,and still win..
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Last edited by LOU D; 05-02-2012 at 08:38 PM.
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  #52  
Old 05-02-2012, 09:17 PM
Lovemea1911 Lovemea1911 is offline
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Originally Posted by LOU D View Post
but he still can't shoot fast..
I love to shoot BE, but this ^^^ is more important to me. If I can bust down a bunch of 8" targets ten meters out in a few of seconds, I feel I can sleep better at night.
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  #53  
Old 05-02-2012, 10:33 PM
LOU D LOU D is offline
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Exactly..But as you learn to shoot,first you need to learn how to be accurate,THEN you learn to put the spurs to it to get faster.Speed is just wasting lead if you ain't hitting anything..
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  #54  
Old 05-03-2012, 07:09 AM
LEO2B LEO2B is offline
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Neither of the wanna-bes will move an inch because there'll be nobody to sound the buzzer in this fantasy show-down!!
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  #55  
Old 05-03-2012, 08:15 AM
gunnut606 gunnut606 is offline
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Like I said those 2 guys, one says the other guy is sloppy shooter, and the other one says the other guy is a slow poke.

I just wanted to know which discipline I should practice. And I think I figured it out :

I should practice both, that way I will be a Slow and Sloppy shooter.
.
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  #56  
Old 05-03-2012, 09:03 AM
LOU D LOU D is offline
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Bullseye first,then speed..
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  #57  
Old 05-03-2012, 10:50 AM
simonsay simonsay is offline
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Originally Posted by gunnut606 View Post

I just wanted to know which discipline I should practice.


.
Understand that accuracy lends itself to speed in the practical games. Without going into the explanation... The more accurate you are, the faster you can go, and still get your hits.
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  #58  
Old 05-03-2012, 11:49 AM
Jessebolt Jessebolt is offline
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Bah, this is just one of those meaningless posts designed to get folks all riled up and such. Everything is just opinion here, no one knows. Just my opinion mind you.

However I did see this and just busted out laughing...

Quote:
In that case they'll both be shooting Colt SAA's and the contest could go on for hours as both contestants attempt to figure out where the thumb safety is located.
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  #59  
Old 05-03-2012, 11:53 AM
BillD BillD is offline
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0b0bNfNRLc

Specifically, start watching at about the 3 min mark.
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  #60  
Old 05-03-2012, 11:58 AM
1903 1903 is offline
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Which ever one that i s the clamest and most steady under pressure and high stress. That's who. doesn't matter who gets the first shot off, or who has the fastest draw. Whoever the calmest and most relaxed will win.
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  #61  
Old 05-03-2012, 01:05 PM
mikeg1005 mikeg1005 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillD View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0b0bNfNRLc

Specifically, start watching at about the 3 min mark.
wooh bro... that doesn't count. Hes a GM, not a master.

MIke.
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  #62  
Old 05-03-2012, 02:05 PM
gunnut606 gunnut606 is offline
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OK, Let's call it a DRAW.
.
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  #63  
Old 05-03-2012, 02:57 PM
Lovemea1911 Lovemea1911 is offline
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Originally Posted by Jessebolt View Post
Bah, this is just one of those meaningless posts designed to get folks all riled up and such.

Maybe, but for guys like me who just like to talk, it is right up our alley.
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  #64  
Old 05-03-2012, 03:20 PM
Busa Dave Busa Dave is offline
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Would have to go with Jim Clark Sr's son-in-law! Nope would not want to go up against him at 50 yards...
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  #65  
Old 05-03-2012, 07:42 PM
LOU D LOU D is offline
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Originally Posted by 1903 View Post
Which ever one that i s the clamest and most steady under pressure and high stress. That's who. doesn't matter who gets the first shot off, or who has the fastest draw. Whoever the calmest and most relaxed will win.
Wanna bet? Watch real comp shooters..They go off by themselves a few minutes before shooting..Why? To get cranked up,and get your adrenaline flowing,just like you'd be in a real life or death situation.Me? I think of every SOB that ever wronged me,every bad thing that ever happened,I get to the point where I could eat my own lip.When I walk up to the line,I'm READY to kill something,I'm so focused,nothing else matters,hit that buzzer,lets kick this pig.
No names mentioned,but at my now defunct club,we had more than a few top level names you'd recognize shoot there over the years,one now retired pro called our club home.One time,a pro got himself cranked up so much during a prep for an IDPA match,he had an Angina attack,hadda call the paramedics..Seen it happen to a few other guys over twenty some years,too..Calm? I don't think so..Don't mistake calm for focused..
Let's put it this way..Who would you rather go up against? A guy that just drank a nice,soothing cup of Chamomille,or the same guy right after he came out of a burning factory,crazy look in his eyes,half on fire,that was just fighting off Zombies for the last ten minutes?
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Last edited by LOU D; 05-03-2012 at 11:28 PM.
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  #66  
Old 05-03-2012, 11:16 PM
SG29736 SG29736 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SG29736
""I can tell you this, bullseye shooters are not idiots tied to dogma.""

I guess this is supposed to mean that action shooters are idiots tied to dogma.
Now you see this a lot. The USPSA/IDPA shooter in a real gunfight will revert to his training and get killed because the things they do in matches aren't tactically sound. But a bullseye shooter is somehow immune to this?


Even if they start with the gun in hand, the bullseye shooter isn't as used to getting they gun up quickly and getting a sight picture. So, I guess they'd both lose. The bullseye shooter will be waiting for that perfect sight picture, and the USPSA shooter will be standing there waiting for the beep. Mark


"How far the H@@@ out on left field are you standing?????? I said that because everybody seems to think the Bullseye shooter is going to take his stance, fit the gun in his hand, slowly raise it above the target, bring it back down and start a deliberate squeeze. PUH-LEEEEEZE!

If you look at most of the Master Class Bullseye Shooters, most are either Military or Ex-Military. They will not try to act like they're on the range."

I know the bullseye master wouldn't shoot like he does in a bullseye match. But still he is not as used to getting off a quick, accurate shot like a USPSA master would be. Master level bullseye shooters probably do have experience in other shooting disiplines or have military experience. Guess what. So might the Master level USPSA shooter. As far as someone reverting to their training in a defensive situation, I don't think either shooter is immune from it.

A master level USPSA shooter is perfectly capable of shooting an accurate shot at 50 yards. Of course a master level bullseye shooter can as well. But why would you give the edge to the bullseye shooter also being able to do it more quickly than the USPSA shooter, even starting with the gun in hand. The USPSA shooter shoots quickly match after match, the bullseye shooter doesn't.

The original premise was comparing a Master level bullseye shooter and a Master level USPSA shooter. Nothing about any other experience. If we want to assume that both shooters are highly trained in all other shooting disciplines and both have military experience and high level tactical training, essentially they would be the same and the question would be moot. Mark
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  #67  
Old 05-04-2012, 06:52 AM
Lovemea1911 Lovemea1911 is offline
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Originally Posted by BillD View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0b0bNfNRLc

Specifically, start watching at about the 3 min mark.
It's a good shot, but do you think he did it on the first shot? He is definitely capable of it, but even movie stars have bloopers at times.
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  #68  
Old 05-04-2012, 07:31 AM
BillD BillD is offline
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Originally Posted by LovemeanHK View Post
It's a good shot, but do you think he did it on the first shot? He is definitely capable of it, but even movie stars have bloopers at times.
1.5 million rounds down range. You learn a few things.
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  #69  
Old 05-04-2012, 08:29 AM
Ankeny Ankeny is offline
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I used to shoot BE...2600 club in fact. I have shot some USPSA...GM in Limited Division in fact. Next time I am at the range I'll put a target out at 50 yards and see which one of me hits it first.
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  #70  
Old 05-04-2012, 10:47 AM
Dave Waits Dave Waits is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SG29736 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SG29736
""I can tell you this, bullseye shooters are not idiots tied to dogma.""

I guess this is supposed to mean that action shooters are idiots tied to dogma.
Now you see this a lot. The USPSA/IDPA shooter in a real gunfight will revert to his training and get killed because the things they do in matches aren't tactically sound. But a bullseye shooter is somehow immune to this?


Even if they start with the gun in hand, the bullseye shooter isn't as used to getting they gun up quickly and getting a sight picture. So, I guess they'd both lose. The bullseye shooter will be waiting for that perfect sight picture, and the USPSA shooter will be standing there waiting for the beep. Mark


"How far the H@@@ out on left field are you standing?????? I said that because everybody seems to think the Bullseye shooter is going to take his stance, fit the gun in his hand, slowly raise it above the target, bring it back down and start a deliberate squeeze. PUH-LEEEEEZE!

If you look at most of the Master Class Bullseye Shooters, most are either Military or Ex-Military. They will not try to act like they're on the range."

I know the bullseye master wouldn't shoot like he does in a bullseye match. But still he is not as used to getting off a quick, accurate shot like a USPSA master would be. Master level bullseye shooters probably do have experience in other shooting disiplines or have military experience. Guess what. So might the Master level USPSA shooter. As far as someone reverting to their training in a defensive situation, I don't think either shooter is immune from it.

A master level USPSA shooter is perfectly capable of shooting an accurate shot at 50 yards. Of course a master level bullseye shooter can as well. But why would you give the edge to the bullseye shooter also being able to do it more quickly than the USPSA shooter, even starting with the gun in hand. The USPSA shooter shoots quickly match after match, the bullseye shooter doesn't.

The original premise was comparing a Master level bullseye shooter and a Master level USPSA shooter. Nothing about any other experience. If we want to assume that both shooters are highly trained in all other shooting disciplines and both have military experience and high level tactical training, essentially they would be the same and the question would be moot. Mark
SG, if you go back to my original post and read the entire post instead of stopping at the first point you can attack with, you'd see that I didn't pick either, I stated it was whoever got the first shot off. Neither is going to miss. What I did say and mean was that neither would resort to their original training. That is what I meant when I said "Bullseye Shooters are not idiots tied to dogma." I made no such reference to USPSA shooters. That was pulled out of a posterior to attack with.
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Last edited by Dave Waits; 05-04-2012 at 10:51 AM.
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  #71  
Old 05-04-2012, 07:30 PM
SG29736 SG29736 is offline
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DW. " SG, if you go back to my original post and read the entire post instead of stopping at the first point you can attack with, you'd see that I didn't pick either, I stated it was whoever got the first shot off. Neither is going to miss. What I did say and mean was that neither would resort to their original training. That is what I meant when I said "Bullseye Shooters are not idiots tied to dogma." I made no such reference to USPSA shooters. That was pulled out of a posterior to attack with."

I took the comment, "Bullseye shooters are not idiots tied to dogma.", to imply that shooters in other disciplines would be considered, "idiots tied to dogma." Can you understand how someone could take that comment to imply what I thought? It would probably be true that whoever got the first shot off would hit the target, I'm saying that I think the USPSA shooter would be the one to do it. Now, if you changed it to two C class shooters, I'd give the edge to the bullseye shooter. Mark
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  #72  
Old 05-04-2012, 09:22 PM
LEO2B LEO2B is offline
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJDo7KAC-sI
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  #73  
Old 05-04-2012, 09:26 PM
LOU D LOU D is offline
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If Clint Eastwood was dead,he'd be rolling over in his grave..And the point of this post was?
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  #74  
Old 05-05-2012, 07:45 AM
WobbleZone WobbleZone is offline
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Lucas McCain takes them both.
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