Force on Force and Close Range Combat.

[Itshak]

I am wondering who here has taken a FOF class and which gun have they used (I am talking about simunitions)?

Also who has been to a class where GOTX (getting of the X) was taught and also included close combat at distances of 1 to 5 feet in various light conditions.

Please give us your experiences and your deductions on what you learned and how important it was to learn that.

[Itshak]

OK it seems like nobody wants to answer or has a question.
Force on Force is probably the best way to find out how you will react under an extreme circumstance while someone is trying to shoot you and how accurate you will be when you return fire.

Also you will find out that your first instinct will be to take cover and you will shoot while you are moving towards cover or getting of the X or if you do not do those things you will find out that you got hit and your adversary if he does those things will survive.

This is as realistic a training as it comes, the next best one is to be in a real firefight.

This is where people find out the value of a gun with a hi cap mag and also a gun that is simple to operate.

Also you find out that with certain calibers your shot to shot time is much shorter and your ability to hit is also better.

You will also find out that people miss from very short distances or the hits are marginal at best. find a school that teaches that and it will be the best training you can get.

[scott 40s&w]

FInd a Suarez International 0-5ft gunfighting course you'll get plenty of force on force with airsoft and combatives. And we do shoot a little in the class as well.

[Itshak]

Originally Posted by scott 40s&w

FInd a Suarez International 0-5ft gunfighting course you'll get plenty of force on force with airsoft and combatives. And we do shoot a little in the class as well.

Scott that is where I was trying to get this conversation going. As much as I am out of WT I still think that the training methods of Gabe Suarez are the best and most realistic in all the training community.
I give credit where its due, you might know me as "Ike".

[ADKilla]

There's good FoF training and not so good FoF training. Good FoF training is where the student is forced to react to an unknown contact and respond to pre-attack cues. He might end up in a tangle which might be resolved by using a firearm or combatives or no fight at all. Not so good FoF training is where students are lined up at ever decreasing distances and you have a repeat of an Old West shoot out where students are running away from each other while wildly firing one-handed.

I have attended both types of training. I will never waste my money attending the latter again. As to the question of firearm it doesn't really make a huge difference with good FoF training as the focus is on managing unknown contacts and escalating your situational awareness. It absolutely matters in the OK Corral where you want a pistol with a high magazine capacity and no safety switches to slow you down.

[NETim]

Why yes, I've done some FOF training. Why do you ask?



Having the ability to draw smoothly, particularly one-handed, is vitally important. What works, and what doesn't work, for cover garments becomes readily apparent.

[Itshak]

Originally Posted by ADKilla

There's good FoF training and not so good FoF training. Good FoF training is where the student is forced to react to an unknown contact and respond to pre-attack cues. He might end up in a tangle which might be resolved by using a firearm or combatives or no fight at all. Not so good FoF training is where students are lined up at ever decreasing distances and you have a repeat of an Old West shoot out where students are running away from each other while wildly firing one-handed.

I have attended both types of training. I will never waste my money attending the latter again. As to the question of firearm it doesn't really make a huge difference with good FoF training as the focus is on managing unknown contacts and escalating your situational awareness. It absolutely matters in the OK Corral where you want a pistol with a high magazine capacity and no safety switches to slow you down.

Both methods are valid as real life confrontations happen in both ways you described FTM the second one is more like what happens, you don't have to be rolling on the ground before drawing your gun like it happened in the Zimmerman/Trayvon shooting.

The reason I asked the question is because Force on Force with guns shooting simunitions is as realistic a training as any body can have and that is where people realize which type of gun dominates the fight.

I also brought up the subject to start a conversation and to see if we can learn from each other.

[ADKilla]

I'm not discounting Simunition weapons as valid training tools. Nor am I discounting that sometimes the shoot out at the OK Corral occurs as you are increasing distance. However based upon my research I believe most attacks start out as a perp trying to get close utilizing some sort of ruse, e.g "spare change". For that scenario the Matt Dillon drill is not effective.

[Itshak]

Originally Posted by ADKilla

I'm not discounting Simunition weapons as valid training tools. Nor am I discounting that sometimes the shoot out at the OK Corral occurs as you are increasing distance. However based upon my research I believe most attacks start out as a perp trying to get close utilizing some sort of ruse, e.g "spare change". For that scenario the Matt Dillon drill is not effective.

I agree not all drills are good for all situations but it is good to practice everything because you never know which one will be the one you have to use to save your Tuches.

Also situational awarness used properly should keep some dirtbag from coming too close to you before you have to roll on the ground with him which in my case will never happen as unless taken by complete surprise I will never let it come to rolling on the ground.

Besides that we do practice CQC from distances of 0 to 3 yards so again perps do not in most cases attack and roll with you on the ground they strike and try to take you out with a sucker hit so the point is not to let them come too close.

Also maybe you can enrich us by telling us about your research so we understand where you are coming from .