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  #1  
Old 04-26-2012, 11:30 PM
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dsk dsk is offline
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68,000 US guns seized in Mexico since 2006




http://news.yahoo.com/us-mexico-seiz...183133319.html

As usual, they are continuing to blame the USA for their drug gang problem.
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Old 04-26-2012, 11:47 PM
JT1911 JT1911 is offline
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Not surprising. It's easier for their government to blame the "rich country" to the north than to actually deal with the problems and corruption in their own.
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  #3  
Old 04-27-2012, 04:49 AM
tmattimore tmattimore is offline
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If they don't like our guns they should build a fence to keep them out.
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Old 04-27-2012, 07:46 AM
Cannibul Cannibul is offline
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One very important piece of info missing from that article.

How many total guns were seized in Mexico during that time.

That would let us figure out what percentage came from the US.

Then we could subtract the "Fast and Furious" weapons from that.
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  #5  
Old 04-27-2012, 08:01 AM
boykinpup boykinpup is offline
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"The Government" ie. ATF.... a very reliable source.
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  #6  
Old 04-27-2012, 08:21 AM
edj0527 edj0527 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannibul View Post
One very important piece of info missing from that article.

How many total guns were seized in Mexico during that time.

That would let us figure out what percentage came from the US.

Then we could subtract the "Fast and Furious" weapons from that.
This is the Key, because as we have read from other news Sources, the Cartels are getting weapons from other countries besides the US. Nice thing about statistics is they can be slanted any way you want them to suit your need or purpose.....
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  #7  
Old 04-27-2012, 08:49 AM
Bill Mannatt Bill Mannatt is offline
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It's an election year for the gun control nazis.Gotta make hay with the bogus stats. I'm sure the BATFE will re-supply the cartels before the election.Still a lot of National Guard armories to be raided.
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  #8  
Old 04-27-2012, 08:59 AM
HT77 HT77 is offline
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Originally Posted by boykinpup View Post
"The Government" ie. ATF.... a very reliable source.
Bingo. Those of us who worked for the government understand how they generate numbers to further the agenda of the month. I would always question the numbers in a news release of that type. Although the writer of the article and Calderon are pro Obama, they unintentionally put him and the Democrats in a bad light regarding the 2A but I doubt the Democrat and Obama koolaiders will catch it. If Obama could overcome his "internal problems" does anyone doubt which side he would come down on.

Calderon credited President Barack Obama with making an effort to reduce the gun traffic, but said Obama faces "internal problems ... from a political point of view."

There is Republican opposition in Congress and broad opposition from Republicans and gun-rights advocates elsewhere to a new assault weapons ban or other curbs on gun sales. The Obama administration says it is working to tighten inspections of border checkpoints in the absence of an assault rifle ban that expired before Obama took office.
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  #9  
Old 04-27-2012, 09:03 AM
400cor-bon 400cor-bon is offline
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I love the CBS News picture of seized M4A1s with grenade launchers.
I suppose these must be readily available at Az gun dealers?

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-...in;contentBody
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  #10  
Old 04-27-2012, 09:05 AM
flyinrock flyinrock is offline
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My question is, where did those numbers come from? I sure as hell don't trust gov't sources anymore
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  #11  
Old 04-27-2012, 09:30 AM
Jake Card Jake Card is offline
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For those who like to scrutinize numbers, here is the data.

http://www.atf.gov/statistics/downlo...trace-data.pdf




Jake
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  #12  
Old 04-27-2012, 09:41 AM
kermitdog kermitdog is offline
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Think about it. Where else are they gonna come from? Germany? They have ocean on both sides and everything south is on the same thing as Mexico. Hell, everything south probably have weapons from the U. S. as well. That doesn't mean we're to blame. What are the Mexican border patrol doing? It's their job to keep that stuff from crossing. Mexico is a corrupt Country and I mean no disrespect. But the cartels are walking all over them and laughing while doing it. Half the police/military are owned by the cartel. If there's anyone to blame. They should be looking in the mirror. Mexico allowed the "drug lords" to run things however they wanted. And when the poop hit the fan. And the President of Mexico said "NO MAS"! We'll they should've known that mass violence was to be the outcome. The only way it's gonna slow down to a minimum is if another country steps in to help. Gee I wonder who that'll be if it happens?...

Last edited by kermitdog; 04-27-2012 at 09:44 AM.
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  #13  
Old 04-27-2012, 09:57 AM
wccountryboy wccountryboy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake Card View Post
For those who like to scrutinize numbers, here is the data.

http://www.atf.gov/statistics/downlo...trace-data.pdf




Jake
I just skimmed this document, but its interesting how they define a "US sourced" gun. If its MANUFACTURED in the US, its US sourced. So Colt makes a batch of M4s, sells them to the Mexican Army or police, a crooked soldier/cop tranfers them to a cartel.... the data is intentionaly skewed to produce the desired results and hystaria. They choose not to catagorize guns as 'illegaly tranfered from the US to Mexico'.
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  #14  
Old 04-27-2012, 10:11 AM
edj0527 edj0527 is offline
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Data Disclaimer Page 2

In the link provided to the Data used pay close attention to Paragraph 2 of the Data Disclaimer on Page 2....Pretty much says that this is a Sample and should not be considered the "Universe" (all inclusive) of Firearms...
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  #15  
Old 04-27-2012, 11:25 AM
dyeager535 dyeager535 is offline
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Originally Posted by 400cor-bon View Post
I love the CBS News picture of seized M4A1s with grenade launchers.
I suppose these must be readily available at Az gun dealers?

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-...in;contentBody
If you look REAL closely at that picture, you can make out "RESTRICTED MILITARY", "LAW ENFORCEMENT" then "ONLY". Obviously I can't make out some of the words, but it appears to me these are clearly marked for law enforcement/military only. What a (typical false) propaganda photo.
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  #16  
Old 04-27-2012, 11:26 AM
La Grenouille La Grenouille is offline
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USA Today is claiming it's 99,000
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  #17  
Old 04-27-2012, 12:05 PM
Nick A Nick A is offline
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Let's differentiate between 'Drug Problem" and "Gun Problem"

Quote:
dsk said: As usual, they are continuing to blame the USA for their drug gang problem.
Yes, we ARE the source of money for their drug gang problem.
Because the U.S. is the big market for illegal drugs. Plain and simple.
There are drug gangs on BOTH sides of the border
because there is a huge illegal market in the U.S. for the drugs from Mexico.




But, Mexico's gun problem is entirely of their making.
If the Mexican constitution had the same civil right as our 2nd Amendment
then they wouldn't have a problem, would they?
But they have a gun problem because they try to control guns too tightly
among people who deserve the same natural rights we have.
Plain and simple.
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  #18  
Old 04-27-2012, 12:27 PM
Neumann Neumann is offline
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The statistics are highly misleading. Mexico submits only those guns to the ATF it suspects of US origin. According to AP, they submitted 99,000 guns since 2006, of which 68,000 were confirmed.

However, Mexico confiscates nearly 300,000 a year according to other reports, which adds up to 1,800,000 in the same time frame. A whopping 3.8% come from the US, hardly the crisis described by Senator Feinstein. The cartels prefer fully automatic weapons, including light artillery, none of which come from the US. They come from further south, or from the Mexican army itself. That's what a history of corruption breeds.

Last edited by Neumann; 04-27-2012 at 12:33 PM.
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  #19  
Old 04-27-2012, 12:32 PM
HT77 HT77 is offline
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Originally Posted by Nick A View Post
Yes, we ARE the source of money for their drug gang problem.
Because the U.S. is the big market for illegal drugs. Plain and simple.
There are drug gangs on BOTH sides of the border
because there is a huge illegal market in the U.S. for the drugs from Mexico.
This isn't a popular view but its the economic reality. The popularity of recreational drugs here, which is destroying whole portions of our country, puts so much money on the table that drug sellers are killing each other in Mexico to control the markets. If people here suddenly came to their senses and stopped using recreational drugs, the violent drug wars in Mexico would disappear. But its easier for politicians to attack guns than to get stoners to stop being stoners.
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Old 04-27-2012, 12:40 PM
DArBad DArBad is offline
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Originally Posted by HT77 View Post
This isn't a popular view but its the economic reality. The popularity of recreational drugs here, which is destroying whole portions of our country, puts so much money on the table that drug sellers are killing each other in Mexico to control the markets. If people here suddenly came to their senses and stopped using recreational drugs, the violent drug wars in Mexico would disappear. But its easier for politicians to attack guns than to get stoners to stop being stoners.
Agree 100%!
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  #21  
Old 04-27-2012, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by HT77 View Post
This isn't a popular view but its the economic reality. The popularity of recreational drugs here, which is destroying whole portions of our country, puts so much money on the table that drug sellers are killing each other in Mexico to control the markets. If people here suddenly came to their senses and stopped using recreational drugs, the violent drug wars in Mexico would disappear. But its easier for politicians to attack guns than to get stoners to stop being stoners.
Politicians are the stoners. As regards statistics, in 1986 both the DEA and Coast Guard claimed credit for 10 tons of drugs stopped from enetering the US - both claimed through seperate channels and the result was 20 tons stopped!
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Old 04-28-2012, 08:23 PM
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I agree with Nick that we are the source of their gang/drug war problem. We are a small part of their gun problem, most of their illegal automatic (NOT semi-auto) weapons come from south of Mexico.

One of the problems is we trained the people that eventually formed Los Zetas. And we have long been a major supplier to Mexico's military, many of whom go on to sell our military grade weaponry to Los Zetas, either of their own free will (cash) or because they are coerced (threatened or family is threatened).

It's a mess all around, and innocent people are getting killed in the cross-fire. I'm personally in favor of legalizing and regulating drugs to take the cash away from the gangs. Better alternative to what we have, plus it worked once before with Prohibition.

Robert
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Old 04-28-2012, 09:04 PM
HT77 HT77 is offline
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I'm personally in favor of legalizing and regulating drugs to take the cash away from the gangs. Better alternative to what we have, plus it worked once before with Prohibition.

Robert
It probably won't produce the result you want. The black market will still supply dope users cheaper than government regulated drugs which government will want to tax thus driving the price up. Further, encouraging even more drug use will only escalate our social problems. There are a disproportionate number of people who use illegal drugs on welfare, disability, food stamps, unemployment, etc. People on drugs have a hard time holding a job so they commit crimes to get the money they need. The only way to crack down on drug use is to attack the end user with serious penalties which likely won't happen due to political realities. Sad to say, but due to a lack of moral will, we have allowed this problem to escalate to the point that drug users are now a political force and drug suppliers are rich and influential. Like a lot of our problems there really is no good solution now.
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Old 04-28-2012, 09:52 PM
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Oh, I agree it won't "fix" the problem, but it'll have to be part of the solution, in addition to other components. Yes, there will be bootleg drugs, but how much moonshine is out there today? The companies that would step in to "supply" would be able to use economies of scale to beat the gang's price point too, even with taxes and such. The trick is to make it too expensive to bother with it, so securing our border would be a necessary aspect of this as well.

Robert
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Old 04-28-2012, 09:59 PM
HT77 HT77 is offline
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Originally Posted by thearmedrebel View Post
Oh, I agree it won't "fix" the problem, but it'll have to be part of the solution, in addition to other components. Yes, there will be bootleg drugs, but how much moonshine is out there today? The companies that would step in to "supply" would be able to use economies of scale to beat the gang's price point too, even with taxes and such. The trick is to make it too expensive to bother with it, so securing our border would be a necessary aspect of this as well.

Robert
I hope you don't think a bunch of hillbilly moonshiners are the same as billionaire drug kings. Drugs are a much different situation than alcohol. And the demand is much, much different in terms of the addiction. The question is do we as a country and a culture have the fortitude to deal with this problem? My opinion is I doubt it unless there is an amazing and unforesable change in values and culture.
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