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  #1  
Old 04-14-2012, 06:56 AM
zork52 zork52 is offline
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What ever happened to quality control?




God, I've seen so many pics and post on 1911's and quality problems as I've been interested in buying a Smith.

I'm to understand also the S+W fired their CEO not long ago??

I talked with a dealer on the phone about the problems I've been seeing posted with parts scratching frame from normal use, FTF, FTE, and he said "Hey, for $1,000 that's how it is. They're production guns on an assembly line but together by assemblers, NOT gunsmiths".

I've been looking at them but frankly it's pretty discouraging. This was the pistol our soldiers lives depended on back in the day. What the heck happened to quality??
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  #2  
Old 04-14-2012, 07:53 AM
flyinrock flyinrock is offline
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Zork
This is nothing new. I bought a group (10) of brand new Colt 1911's back in the 70's and found half of them to require some extra cleaning and inspection before they were range ready. Debris like machine shavings in the slide rails? It was obvious they hadn't been inspected before shipment. The rest of it, and in the case of several mfg's, just got worse. Even the high dollar guns required a careful inspection before I'd put down my money and take it home.
Caveat emptor seems to be the key word anymore.
Semper Fi
Rocky
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  #3  
Old 04-14-2012, 09:56 AM
Redhat Redhat is offline
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My 2006ish 1911PD Commander doesn't have the scratch problem at all. I am starting to wonder if this started to crop up when production moved to the Maine facility?
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  #4  
Old 04-14-2012, 01:48 PM
rbert0005 rbert0005 is offline
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You are only seeing one side of the coin on the internet.

I would say that the vast majority of owners are more than happy with thier purchases.

Besides, when you look close at the complaints you will find that a good portion of them are pure BS coming from the squeeky few.

Bob
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  #5  
Old 04-14-2012, 03:07 PM
Bosco Rivera Bosco Rivera is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyinrock View Post
This is nothing new.
I agree. Look up Ed Brown, Les Baer, Kimber, Dan Wesson, and other mid-to-high-end 1911's and you will see that people have problems with them as well (machine marks, FTF, FTE, FTLB, etc.). You should always give any gun a good once over before agreeing to a firearm transfer.
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  #6  
Old 04-14-2012, 04:40 PM
82nd 82nd is offline
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When I bought my first 1911 and read horrible stories on that specific model after I bought it,and to this day is one of my favorite shooters. You can find sad stories someone has to say about any gun. Long guns included.

That why I like shooting IDPA, thats were I have seen specific models that I wouldn't buy because of performance.
I too like to spend a grand and not have a scratch but it has happened to me. But as long as it is reliable, I'm happy.
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  #7  
Old 04-14-2012, 06:06 PM
BlueOvalBandit BlueOvalBandit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbert0005 View Post
You are only seeing one side of the coin on the internet.

I would say that the vast majority of owners are more than happy with thier purchases.

Besides, when you look close at the complaints you will find that a good portion of them are pure BS coming from the squeeky few.

Bob
x2 the bitching is far louder then the happy one's, like me. A slide stop or safety scratching the frame is also not a qc deal to me, it happens.
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  #8  
Old 04-16-2012, 02:22 PM
Oldsalt65 Oldsalt65 is offline
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Unfortunately, these days, ANY firearms Manufacturer's quality control is only as good as the last gun they sold you; they ALL let the occasional turd slip through inspection, out the factory door, and into the customers' hands.

It's a sad fact of life that after market customer service is of supreme importance because it's no substitute for initial quality, but that's how it is.

The Smith & Wesson "lifetime service policy" is IMO, the best in the industry and, unlike others, including some prestige "name" manufacturers, they pay for shipping to and from their plant as well.

In the unlikely event you wind up with a gun that isn't up to snuff; Smith & Wesson will make it right.
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  #9  
Old 04-16-2012, 09:37 PM
Janie117 Janie117 is offline
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Originally Posted by 82nd View Post
When I bought my first 1911 and read horrible stories on that specific model after I bought it,and to this day is one of my favorite shooters. You can find sad stories someone has to say about any gun. Long guns included.

That why I like shooting IDPA, thats were I have seen specific models that I wouldn't buy because of performance.
I too like to spend a grand and not have a scratch but it has happened to me. But as long as it is reliable, I'm happy.
So do share...which brands have the best performance in IDPA? That's what I'm going to use mine for.
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  #10  
Old 04-16-2012, 09:53 PM
Horoscope Fish Horoscope Fish is offline
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Originally Posted by zork52 View Post
What the heck happened to quality??
Nothing.

It's just that, now, we have the Intarwebs where everyone has a global "stage" to vent their frustrations no matter how trivial, inconsequential, valid or invalid. It doesn't help, IMO, that the stories tend to be completely one-sided, either.

Perception can be a very funny thing.
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Last edited by Horoscope Fish; 04-16-2012 at 09:55 PM.
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  #11  
Old 04-16-2012, 10:12 PM
old cop old cop is offline
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My favorite analogy for the information superhighway: "disinformation cowpath"
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  #12  
Old 04-17-2012, 07:12 AM
Oldsalt65 Oldsalt65 is offline
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Originally Posted by old cop View Post
My favorite analogy for the information superhighway: "disinformation cowpath"
That's where I learned that only certain plastic pistols are worth owning anymore; are you going to tell me that the Glock Fanboys are actually wrong?

Among other important things, I also learned that all SIGs are garbage, Kimbers are crap, and that a couple of additional foot pounds of energy developed by a pistol round are significant.

There's plenty of great information to be found on the internet these days; you simply need to be willing to absorb it.

And then pass it on.


Last edited by Oldsalt65; 04-17-2012 at 07:17 AM.
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  #13  
Old 04-17-2012, 07:24 AM
flyinrock flyinrock is offline
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The original question can be interpreted many ways, and so can responses. I have had problems with nearly every new gun I ever bought from back to the 50's. Some was quality control, some was the trigger nut (me?). However, over 60 years of shooting I did learn to "interview" the gun I was about to purchase regardless of who made it or its history. QC seemed to slip sometime about the 70's across the board. I recall when I bought a SW M29, I interviewed at least 10 before I found one that met my requirements. If I buy a Colt, it will go thru the same process as will any gun I plan to buy. My observations on Kimbers and sights falling off under recoil were based on personal observations and not internet rants. So, 2 out of 2 sights falling off, under recoil, what should my opinion be? In current days, I would be just as critical of any new gun, or used for that matter, before I'd plunk down my money. This opinion is mine and I'll defend it with years of experience and hundreds of thousands of rounds down range.
Semper Fi
Rocky
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  #14  
Old 04-17-2012, 09:03 AM
Redhat Redhat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyinrock View Post
The original question can be interpreted many ways, and so can responses. I have had problems with nearly every new gun I ever bought from back to the 50's. Some was quality control, some was the trigger nut (me?). However, over 60 years of shooting I did learn to "interview" the gun I was about to purchase regardless of who made it or its history. QC seemed to slip sometime about the 70's across the board. I recall when I bought a SW M29, I interviewed at least 10 before I found one that met my requirements. If I buy a Colt, it will go thru the same process as will any gun I plan to buy. My observations on Kimbers and sights falling off under recoil were based on personal observations and not internet rants. So, 2 out of 2 sights falling off, under recoil, what should my opinion be? In current days, I would be just as critical of any new gun, or used for that matter, before I'd plunk down my money. This opinion is mine and I'll defend it with years of experience and hundreds of thousands of rounds down range.
Semper Fi
Rocky
Unfortunately, everyone is not a gunsmith or armorer so they may not know what to look for during inspection...which is darn helpful information by the way
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  #15  
Old 04-23-2012, 05:51 PM
xwray xwray is offline
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Originally Posted by old cop View Post
My favorite analogy for the information superhighway: "disinformation cowpath"
Based on the ratio of information to disinformation, I'd say the road description was reversed...
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  #16  
Old 04-24-2012, 06:24 PM
zork52 zork52 is offline
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Thanks to all responders and yes, I've gained some valuable info. I appreciate the wisdom and even sarcasm as long as it's a bit funny.

I got a Glock G30SF but like all other Glocks I've owned, I'm all over the place with it and have hit targets much better with Sigs, and some prior limited experience with 1911's. I see others do SOOOO well with the Glocks and they are super reliable.

I'm thinking about going back to a 1911 for the way they fit my hand and how well I've done with them. I'm considering S+W, but also I might have a shot at a Kimber. But I would hope the sites don't fall off. LOL

I'm going to rent a 3" as I've held the Pro 3" and it looks a good carry size and fits my hand great and a 4" at the S+W range here in the PROM as I've not shot a 1911 in years.

I also want to try a Steel framed 3 or 4 to see the difference in recoil vs the aluminum framed pieces.

As far as your responses, in this day and age, there seems to be QC problems with everything made as we now live in the make it, ship it, and we'll fix it in the field if something goes wrong. Craftsmanship off the assembly line went out along when gas went over $1.00 per gallon or if you find it, chances are you're paying a premium for it and even then................

I do value the forums though as there is a lot of very useful info on accessories and mods that you guys have already done.
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  #17  
Old 05-02-2012, 08:06 PM
OldBoldPilot OldBoldPilot is offline
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Originally Posted by BlueOvalBandit View Post
x2 the bitching is far louder then the happy one's, like me. A slide stop or safety scratching the frame is also not a qc deal to me, it happens.
It's all about perception, isn't it? Personally, I don't think it's okay if a pistol scratches itself up in the course of the normal operation of its controls. It indicates (to me) a lack of quality and a blatant disregard of standards. But then, I'm also a stickler for proper spelling and punctuation. There you have it.
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  #18  
Old 05-10-2012, 01:34 PM
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dsk dsk is offline
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Originally Posted by zork52 View Post
I talked with a dealer on the phone about the problems I've been seeing posted with parts scratching frame from normal use, FTF, FTE, and he said "Hey, for $1,000 that's how it is. They're production guns on an assembly line but together by assemblers, NOT gunsmiths".

I've been looking at them but frankly it's pretty discouraging. This was the pistol our soldiers lives depended on back in the day. What the heck happened to quality??
The 1911 pistols our soldiers carried got scratched up quite easily in normal use. The thing was, nobody cared because they were killing tools, nothing more. The idea that a 1911 has to be assembled like a Lexus and have an absolute perfect fit between the moving parts is a recent phenomenon. My dad's old 1966 Colt Government has scuff marks along the slide where it rubs the frame and scratches around the slide stop and thumb and grip safeties, yet it has never malfunctioned. That's all that mattered back in the day. If you want a 1911 pistol that's assembled with all the precision of a Swiss watch then yes, you're going to have to pay for it.
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  #19  
Old 05-10-2012, 01:41 PM
BillD BillD is online now
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Originally Posted by rbert0005 View Post
You are only seeing one side of the coin on the internet.

I would say that the vast majority of owners are more than happy with thier purchases.

Besides, when you look close at the complaints you will find that a good portion of them are pure BS coming from the squeeky few.

Bob
I'd also say the the vast majority of owners shoot less than 300 rounds per year.

You don't find problems with cars that sit in the garage...
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  #20  
Old 05-11-2012, 07:29 PM
BruceM BruceM is offline
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You don't find problems with cars that sit in the garage...
Depends on what the problem. I can assure you that once enough units of any product are in circulation, issues do pop up, even in those which have had limited usage.

Bruce
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  #21  
Old 05-14-2012, 09:32 PM
Outdoorworks Outdoorworks is offline
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I just bought a 1911 sc e the other day and went to shoot today for the first time. I never shot a 1911 before and was excited. First seven rounds were great. I was in love. Poped out the clip and slid in the next. I racked the slide back let go and the damb slide slid foward and flew right off the frame. The slide stop broke on me. The slide landed on the concrete and burgerd up the rear sight. The guy at the shop put a new slide stop on so I could shoot. The new slide stop scrached up the frame and it had problems with the ammo (factory reloads). The gun is now on it's way back to S&W. S&W rep said it will take three weeks. I hope I didn't just lay down $1150 on a pos. When I get it back I will shoot new factory ammo through it and hope that solvels the jaming proublem. Right now I am VERY disappointed.
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