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  #1  
Old 04-23-2012, 04:47 PM
johnhunter44 johnhunter44 is offline
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I was told by a gun dealer that Kimber has changed their...




...manufacturing methods by switching to a more "assembly line" method. He said these new methods are why lots of Kimbers are being sent back to the factory after they are sold, because quality control has slipped. I have never owned a Kimber, but want to purchase an Ultra 1911 model of a high quality maker. I am a retired LEO and presently have two glock .40s, but want a small .45 for personal defense, so I am really not looking for a range pistol for 1000's of rounds of shooting. This would be a carry gun that I would want to conceal and carry comfortably. I would probably only put about 500 rounds a year through it. I really do love how the Kimber Super Carry Ultra and the Ultra Crimson Carry II look and feel, but have never shot either. I also like the look of the Sig 1911 Ultra two tone, but can't find one, except online. I have, however, found both of these Kimbers and I am getting the itch to get one. Reliability would be my number one priority in this weapon, as I imagine that both would be similar in accuracy, but could be mistaken. To those that have either of these brands, can anyone advise which would suit me best? By reading lots of Kimber posts, there seem to be issues with FTF and FTE on the Kimbers, at lease more so that some of the other brands. I just don't want to make a mistake on such a large purchase. Thanks in advance....
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Old 04-23-2012, 04:56 PM
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Kruzr Kruzr is offline
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I think he has no clue what he is saying. If he believes Kimber's were hand fit at some point, you can be assured that he is clueless and you should probably find someone else to do business with.
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Old 04-23-2012, 05:06 PM
johnhunter44 johnhunter44 is offline
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So are Kimbers being manufactured the same way they always have? I really haven't bought anything from this particular dealer, so I don't know if anything he has said has any accuracy to it, which is why I am coming here. I do love how the Kimbers look and feel...
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Old 04-23-2012, 05:08 PM
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custom2 custom2 is offline
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Sounds like more Gunstore Fokelore to me. When you sell as many guns as Kimber does, I'm sure that they have been running the assembly line for quite some time with very minimal hand fitting. You would have to produce them this way to get the numbers they do.

Since Kimber sells a zillion guns a year, you will get more guns going back to the factory for repair. Since you hear more about people complaing about a product than you do praising it, this is where you get this internet hype about Kimber quality going down hill. Most of the time you don't hear from people who are happy with their products because they are just too busy enjoying using them to complain on the web or aren't active on forums.

I have had 3 Kimber 1911's over the years. All of them were top quality guns. All of my friends Kimbers are top quality guns.

So, put simply, don't believe the hype. Chances are, if you buy a Kimber, you will get a great gun.
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Old 04-23-2012, 05:09 PM
DArBad DArBad is offline
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Your dealer gave you some erroneous information. Not only Kimbers but most other mainstream 1911s you can think of are built up in an " assembly line " process.

Very, very few brands are actually built up one at a time " custom style "--and those few cost an arm and leg. An example that is not assembly line style would be those custom ordered pieces from say Heirloom Precision or a one of a kind special ordered 1911 from Cylinder & Slide.

As a production gun, Kimbers are some of the best you can buy. This is borne by the fact that for so many years now, Kimber is the BIGGEST seller of 1911s on the planet, bar none. Lots of Kimber owners own more than one, which will not be the case if Kimbers are not quality pieces.

Forget the errornet bashers, buy a Kimber and tell us what you think.

Hope this helps.

Last edited by DArBad; 04-23-2012 at 05:11 PM.
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  #6  
Old 04-23-2012, 05:10 PM
DirtyRod DirtyRod is offline
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If you keep reading you will find folks that say that Kimbers are good while others say they are crap. Others will talk about how quality has slipped while others say it's improving. Some have direct experience while others are parroting what they have heard or read. When I bought my first the sales goon told me it was total crap but was more than happy to sell it to me. 10k rounds later he suggested that I just happen to have one of the "good" ones.

What is probably more accurate to say is that the shorter 1911s like the Ultras, and SA Micros,etc can be a little more picky and temperamental than the longer guns so they sometimes need some "tuning" to get them to run reliably. That said, my wife's 3" EMP eats everything. As long as I clean it every 1k rounds or so it's as reliable as any of my 5" guns. My Kimbers, both of which are less than 5 years old, have been golden although both have less than 11k rounds through them.

Everyone's mileage will vary.
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Last edited by DirtyRod; 04-23-2012 at 05:13 PM.
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  #7  
Old 04-23-2012, 05:11 PM
john45 john45 is offline
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I just bought an Ultra TLE II and it is great. It shoots well and my main reason for it is Concealed carry in the warmer months. I see no defects in workmanship.

I shot it yesterday and some FTE's that are definitely shooter related , I have never owned a 3" so I am still breaking it in and getting used to it. I have 400 rounds through it. First time out 175 rounds and no failures. I think the dealer is misinformed.
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  #8  
Old 04-23-2012, 05:12 PM
400cor-bon 400cor-bon is offline
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you hear all kinds of mindless cr@p in gunstores
take it with a # of salt
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  #9  
Old 04-23-2012, 05:17 PM
SSmokin99 SSmokin99 is offline
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It really gets me sometimes how there's so much Kimber bashing. I have the TLE/RL II and I have not had a single problem with it. I know of 3 other people personally that have Kimbers and there's have also been 100%
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  #10  
Old 04-23-2012, 05:22 PM
johnhunter44 johnhunter44 is offline
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Guys, thanks for all of this input and please keep providing all of the input you can, I can feel my wallet getting lighter.....
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  #11  
Old 04-23-2012, 05:25 PM
smolck smolck is online now
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At the 2012 Shot show in Vegas the Kimber rep there says they have expanded their factory and added some new machines which are IMPROVING the quality of their brand.

You can skip to around 5:15 in this video to hear it direct from a Kimber rep.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxOKbHKoY2A
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  #12  
Old 04-23-2012, 05:34 PM
bubbasuwannee bubbasuwannee is offline
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My recently purchased CDP Ultra II shot through 350 rounds of various types with not the first hiccup.

It is a Custom Shop gun, which I've heard are hand fitted, but like others above have said, the smaller Ultra sized 1911's are more finicky and can have more problems out the gate.

A perfect example of this is my co-workers newly purchased Sig 3" 1911 which had feeding/slide stop problems and had to go back to Sig to be repaired.

The icing on the cake is that he was/is a Kimber basher, claiming Sigs to be the best 1911 for the money. Now he wants to shoot my CDP since he's had problems, but mine has been flawless.
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  #13  
Old 04-23-2012, 05:41 PM
BYJO4 BYJO4 is offline
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Kimber makes a fine 1911 and has an excellent customer service dept that will correct problems that may exist. While "Custom Shop" appears on most of their guns, they are still production pistols. Since Kimber sells far more than other manufactures, it only stands to reason that they will a larger number of guns that will need adjustment. However, on a percentage basis, I'm confident they have no more or even fewer service issues than any other production made 1911. People are also more prone to post problems far more often than those who post how great their Kimber is.
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Old 04-23-2012, 05:57 PM
supervel supervel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnhunter44 View Post
...manufacturing methods by switching to a more "assembly line" method. He said these new methods are why lots of Kimbers are being sent back to the factory after they are sold, because quality control has slipped. I have never owned a Kimber, but want to purchase an Ultra 1911 model of a high quality maker. I am a retired LEO and presently have two glock .40s, but want a small .45 for personal defense, so I am really not looking for a range pistol for 1000's of rounds of shooting. This would be a carry gun that I would want to conceal and carry comfortably. I would probably only put about 500 rounds a year through it. I really do love how the Kimber Super Carry Ultra and the Ultra Crimson Carry II look and feel, but have never shot either. I also like the look of the Sig 1911 Ultra two tone, but can't find one, except online. I have, however, found both of these Kimbers and I am getting the itch to get one. Reliability would be my number one priority in this weapon, as I imagine that both would be similar in accuracy, but could be mistaken. To those that have either of these brands, can anyone advise which would suit me best? By reading lots of Kimber posts, there seem to be issues with FTF and FTE on the Kimbers, at lease more so that some of the other brands. I just don't want to make a mistake on such a large purchase. Thanks in advance....
Both Kimber and Sig have had noted reliabilty probems that have been widely reported.Both involve external extractors and FPSafety issues.Sig did away with the manhole cover and went with a sawed off internal extractor to retain the FPS.I believe Kimber has gone back to internal extractors,and S&W has gone to a wider external one.As to the choices mentioned and the two brands mentioned,I would go with a CCO 4.25" barrel lenght,which rules out Kimber.That leaves Sig,which had two Variations in that model.The new ones are made with Sig parts that are not outsourced and the problems have suposedly gone down.They are all made on an assembly line.Only full out custom type one off pistols are not,sometimes.
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Old 04-23-2012, 06:02 PM
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Kruzr Kruzr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supervel View Post
Both Kimber and Sig have had noted reliabilty probems that have been widely reported.Both involve external extractors and FPSafety issues.Sig did away with the manhole cover and went with a sawed off internal extractor to retain the FPS.I believe Kimber has gone back to internal extractors,and S&W has gone to a wider external one.As to the choices mentioned and the two brands mentioned,I would go with a CCO 4.25" barrel lenght,which rules out Kimber.That leaves Sig,which had two Variations in that model.The new ones are made with Sig parts that are not outsourced and the problems have suposedly gone down.They are all made on an assembly line.Only full out custom type one off pistols are not,sometimes.
Are you aware that Kimber hasn't made an external extractor gun since the end of 2005? I bet you also didn't know that Kimber Compact models are Officer frames with 4" barrels.
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Old 04-23-2012, 06:04 PM
Onegoodshot Onegoodshot is offline
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[QUOTE=supervel;3832987]Both Kimber and Sig have had noted reliabilty probems that have been widely reported.



By internet experts.
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  #17  
Old 04-23-2012, 06:20 PM
mikeg1005 mikeg1005 is offline
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By internet experts.
Thats all that matters brahhh! I mean, why would anyone type something on the internet that they didn't personal/first hand experience? That would just be spreading lies throughout the interweb.

MIke.
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  #18  
Old 04-23-2012, 06:20 PM
Redneckhuntr Redneckhuntr is offline
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I would like to know how many of the Kimber bashers have had first hand experience. A lot of the bashing is a friend of a friend said. That is the way it was for me. I asked everyone I knew if they had one or knew anything about them. None of my friends had one but was willing to tell me how they are over priced and problematic, or how they were the best thing since sliced bread. It was a about a 50/50 split with no first hand experiences. I think that most of the bashing is done by people, that believe that there should be no break in period on a $1000 handgun. Or it is there first handgun and they do not know how to properly hold the firearm(limp wristing). I am not saying all of the bashing is by inexperienced people just some of it. When you make as many handguns a Kimber does you are bound to get some genuine problems from a few. I am happy I went with a Kimber.
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Old 04-23-2012, 06:37 PM
Z7 MATT Z7 MATT is offline
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Originally Posted by Redneckhuntr View Post
I would like to know how many of the Kimber bashers have had first hand experience. A lot of the bashing is a friend of a friend said. That is the way it was for me. I asked everyone I knew if they had one or knew anything about them. None of my friends had one but was willing to tell me how they are over priced and problematic, or how they were the best thing since sliced bread. It was a about a 50/50 split with no first hand experiences. I think that most of the bashing is done by people, that believe that there should be no break in period on a $1000 handgun. Or it is there first handgun and they do not know how to properly hold the firearm(limp wristing). I am not saying all of the bashing is by inexperienced people just some of it. When you make as many handguns a Kimber does you are bound to get some genuine problems from a few. I am happy I went with a Kimber.
I agree with what you are saying. I am not a "basher" per say buy I do have a bad taste in my mouth with my Kimber. After purchasing my springfield I expected a bit more from them. I had to send it back after e first range trip. I'll give them recognition, they did fix it, but they patched the problem instead of repairing the problem. Once I got all of the kinks worked out I started to like the gun more every range trip!
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Old 04-23-2012, 06:46 PM
supervel supervel is offline
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Are you aware that Kimber hasn't made an external extractor gun since the end of 2005? I bet you also didn't know that Kimber Compact models are Officer frames with 4" barrels.
Yes I know Kimber switched extractors and I said 4.25"not 4.00"Is the date of when they switched that important to the point I was trying to make?
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Old 04-23-2012, 06:50 PM
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Kruzr Kruzr is offline
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Yes I know Kimber switched extractors and I said 4.25"not 4.00"Is the date of when they switched that important to the point I was trying to make?
Yes it is since you spoke of reliability and the OP couldn't buy a new external extractor Kimber anyway.

Do you find that 1/4" makes a big difference? Which Kimbers do you or have you owned?

I find my Pro CDP to shoot just about as well as my Kobra Carry and that's shooting round small targets. For SD and COM shooting, I don't find any difference other than better night sights on the Kimber.
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Old 04-23-2012, 06:52 PM
beerguy214 beerguy214 is offline
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Yeah i cannot believe how much people believe what is on the internet on Kimbers.When i bought mine a few months back i was like you hear these people bashing Kimber and i looked at videos on youtube and they all loved there Kimbers.So with my nib Kimber TLE II i went to the range and wow it shot 100 rounds fmj 230 and no ftf,fte . worked great.In fact i love the weapon it is just awsome as far as i am concerned.The fit the finish everything about it.Yeah you are gonna get some that don't work the way mine does but that is like the big 3 sometimes they have to have recalls but hey chances are you are going to get a good one.I love Kimbers but i wanted to change it up and just bought a Colt Combat Commmander in stainless but i wanted it and bought it but i am not going to bash Kimber because i love my TLEII.And my Kimber will always be with me.lol
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Old 04-23-2012, 06:53 PM
supervel supervel is offline
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[QUOTE=Onegoodshot;3832997]
Quote:
Originally Posted by supervel View Post
Both Kimber and Sig have had noted reliabilty probems that have been widely reported.



By internet experts.
They did get away from the manhole covers,and they did change the slide on the CCO.I know because I was going to buy one and noticed the differences.I did not claim to be an expert,I was relaying this information,and it is correct.I will not bash any brand of firearm.I will mention if they have had alot of reported problems and a design change came in the same time frame.So what is your point again?
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  #24  
Old 04-23-2012, 06:55 PM
mortum mortum is offline
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Originally Posted by DArBad View Post
As a production gun, Kimbers are some of the best you can buy.
I concur and here is my testimony http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=363544 - I told you, I am gonna join you Kimber Endorsement Club, DArBad!
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Old 04-23-2012, 06:59 PM
supervel supervel is offline
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Originally Posted by Kruzr View Post
Yes it is since you spoke of reliability and the OP couldn't buy a new external extractor Kimber anyway.

Do you find that 1/4" makes a big difference? Which Kimbers do you or have you owned?

I find my Pro CDP to shoot just about as well as my Kobra Carry and that's shooting round small targets. For SD and COM shooting, I don't find any difference other than better night sights on the Kimber.
You are incorrect,I do not see where I said he could not buy a Kimber without an internal extractor,I just mentioned that they had changed extractor.I was recomeding the 4.25"I never said the 4" was not reliable.Most of the other Manufacters Are going to 4.25" CCO's now.Kimber will probably have one soon to.Re read the post.

Last edited by supervel; 04-23-2012 at 07:09 PM.
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