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  #1  
Old 04-22-2012, 08:55 PM
UNBROKEN UNBROKEN is offline
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Why is PayPal "gift" requirement allowed in the classifieds?




If someone is selling something they should add in the 3%...selling something and requiring funds to be sent as a gift is not only against PayPal's TOS it also removes any and all protection for the buyer through PayPal.
I've seen quite a few things I was considering until I saw the "PayPal gift only" requirement.
Sorry....I'm not sending money to a stranger as a gift and have no recourse if I get nothing in return.
IMHO it's a bad deal for the site to allow this to continue.
  #2  
Old 04-22-2012, 09:42 PM
SuHu SuHu is offline
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It's not this website's job to enforce an unrelated company's policies.

You're also the first person in 12 years I've seen that actually wants to pay Paypal fees. I've sold hundreds of things via forums using Paypal (actually since it was X.com), and I've never encountered someone who demanded to pay the fee.

The whole buyer protection crap is a double edged sword. There has been a spectacular explosion of filthy scammers that make payments with Paypal, then make Paypal claims. More often than not, Paypal WILL side with the scammer, even when provided with evidence suggesting fraud. In short, Paypal sucks, and I only ever offer it as a service to the buyer. I'm perfectly happy with USPS money orders. I even created a Google Checkout merchant account to try and avoid using Paypal.
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Last edited by SuHu; 04-22-2012 at 09:46 PM.
  #3  
Old 04-22-2012, 09:56 PM
H-D H-D is offline
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I've seen plenty of posts where they state "add 3 percent" if you do not want to gift it then add 3 percent even if its a hundred bucks the fee is 3 bucks, big deal
  #4  
Old 04-22-2012, 09:57 PM
UNBROKEN UNBROKEN is offline
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I'm not "demanding" to pay anything. It's the sellers job to set his price at a place where he's comfortable having the fees removed.
I don't know you from Adam and vice versa....why am I gonna send you a "gift" on the hopes that you're a good guy and will deliver what I paid for?
The simple fact that so many scammers use these forums is the sole reason I bring it up.

I bought a holster from here last week. The seller requested a Postal MOney Order which I happily agreed to. I have no problem making a transaction in a way that provides both of us with some protection...I have a huge problem entering into a transaction that removes ALL of my protections.

This site is all about rules...I just find it amusing they the owners allow this one to be sidestepped.
  #5  
Old 04-22-2012, 09:58 PM
UNBROKEN UNBROKEN is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H-D View Post
I've seen plenty of posts where they state "add 3 percent" if you do not want to gift it then add 3 percent even if its a hundred bucks the fee is 3 bucks, big deal
Also against PayPal's TOS...
If we're all about what's right and being honest...why is it OK to screw PayPal out of there fees?
  #6  
Old 04-22-2012, 10:09 PM
SuHu SuHu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UNBROKEN View Post
Also against PayPal's TOS...
If we're all about what's right and being honest...why is it OK to screw PayPal out of there fees?
Regardless of how we feel about Paypal, HOW is it this website's responsibility to enforce another company's policy?? Should these forums start enforcing Milt Sparks holster policy as well?
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“It is not a crime to be here illegally,” -B. Loewe, Spokesman for the National Day Laborers Organizing Network.
"I do believe that it’s the first time in history that fire has ever melted steel.... It is physically impossible." — Rosie O’Donnell
  #7  
Old 04-22-2012, 10:12 PM
UNBROKEN UNBROKEN is offline
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I guess you and I will have to agree to disagree on doing what's right just because it's right. You obviously think it's ok to screw someone else because they're not associated with this website. I'm fine with that....you'll have to be fine with my disagreement.
  #8  
Old 04-22-2012, 10:13 PM
JT1911 JT1911 is offline
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Unbroken- a couple questions

1) is 1911forum.com the same as paypal.com?
2) is 1911forum.com in anyway associated with paypal.com?
3) are the (applicable) paypal TOS a legally binding requirement punishable by a law enforcement agency?
4) regardless of (3) is 1911forum.com such an aforementioned agency?
5) do you want not only our esteemed governmental agencies but also random corporations or enterprises empowered with Police authority?
6) Are you still confused as to the potential reason why this practice is allowed?

---
*Edit*
Unbroken I dont believe anyone is making a value judgement regarding "screwing someone" out of anything. What posters are saying is that while some may feel morally obligated to abide the TOS (something with which I agree with you on) individuals entities cannot be held accountable for the policies of other organizations. For instance- if the owners of 1911forum.com are to enforce paypal policy they would (in order to be fair) have to enforce every other companies policies whose product or serve is bought, sold, or advertised across this medium. Such a requirement is unrealistic as their is no way that the owners of this fine forum can possible know and thus hold the many members here accountable to the countless rules of numberless companies.


Cheers.
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G.K. Chesterton ~ "The Christian life has not been tried and found wanting. It has been found difficult and left untried."
Dave Waits ~ "Stopping power is a 12ga. Load of Buckshot to the center torso at five feet, anything else is supposition."

Last edited by JT1911; 04-22-2012 at 10:20 PM. Reason: Saw a new post.
  #9  
Old 04-22-2012, 10:17 PM
SuHu SuHu is offline
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Don't put words into my mouth simply because you're angry that you've had trouble buying what you want. My disagreement also serves the purpose to let the powers that be that there is disagreement with your suggestion.
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“It is not a crime to be here illegally,” -B. Loewe, Spokesman for the National Day Laborers Organizing Network.
"I do believe that it’s the first time in history that fire has ever melted steel.... It is physically impossible." — Rosie O’Donnell
  #10  
Old 04-22-2012, 10:17 PM
UNBROKEN UNBROKEN is offline
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LOL....it's essentially stealing which I don't think any of us are fans of.

Nice Christian quote in your sig while your post essentially advocates theft just because the two entities aren't interconnected.
  #11  
Old 04-22-2012, 10:19 PM
UNBROKEN UNBROKEN is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuHu View Post
Don't put words into my mouth simply because you're angry that you've had trouble buying what you want. My disagreement also serves the purpose to let the powers that be that there is disagreement with your suggestion.
I believe the intent of your post was quite clear. I can assure you I'm not angry and have not had any issues buying what I wanted. I simply chose to not do business with people That conduct THEIR business in a manner I disagree with because it eliminates my protections.
As I said...we'll have to agree to disagree.
  #12  
Old 04-22-2012, 10:20 PM
SuHu SuHu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UNBROKEN View Post
LOL....it's essentially stealing which I don't think any of us are fans of.

Nice Christian quote in your sig while your post essentially advocates theft just because the two entities aren't interconnected.
Enough with the character insults. Can you comprehend the fact that perhaps some of us would prefer the moderators to focus on other things rather than multi company policy? They have a hard enough time even with the new mods trying to control the flame wars and insult fests that happen here.
__________________
“It is not a crime to be here illegally,” -B. Loewe, Spokesman for the National Day Laborers Organizing Network.
"I do believe that it’s the first time in history that fire has ever melted steel.... It is physically impossible." — Rosie O’Donnell
  #13  
Old 04-22-2012, 10:21 PM
US1911 US1911 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UNBROKEN View Post
Also against PayPal's TOS...If we're all about what's right and being honest...why is it OK to screw PayPal out of there fees?
But is it really against PayPal's TOS to use their service as a gift. Many members here consider fellow members as friends and want to give them the option of exchanging gifts. So, whether the transaction includes a PayPal fee or uses PayPal as a pass through for a gift, they're both considered to be in conformance of the TOS, right?

I have no horse in this race, as I've never used our Classified section; but it just seems to be a bold accusation that this forum condones screwing any business.
  #14  
Old 04-22-2012, 10:24 PM
UNBROKEN UNBROKEN is offline
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Yet here you are trying to start one of those wars.
I made my statements...I stand by them. I didn't state anything derogatory, just my opinion with a question as to why it's allowed.
I also wasn't talking about you in the post you just quoted.

It's just something that's not allowed on every other forum I'm either a member of, work on(there are several) or own.
I find it interesting that it's allowed here of all places, this being the most highly moderated and strict of all my daily stops on the web.
  #15  
Old 04-22-2012, 10:29 PM
JT1911 JT1911 is offline
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Unbroken- your intent to insult aside- you will note that I mentioned I agree with abiding company policies...

However, it is not practical to expect an organization (especially a forum type organization) to know the rules of every entity which may be mentioned across their medium and thus enforce.

I hope that if you disagree with this that you are able to know every rule of any enterprise and to know how every member of your forum (builtwithblood?) is interacting with those rules.

Also I feel I should tell you my statement was made from my background as having written the TOS for several companies (law-school) the actual documents are usually hundreds of pages long and include thousands of individual terms and agreements. I have assisted in the writing of two TOS, and I nor anyone else on the team could list every line on those documents as such it is my professional opinion that it is an unreasonable requirement that this forum should be responsible for the tens of thousands of lines of agreements across the many companies which are mentioned on this medium.

cheers
__________________
G.K. Chesterton ~ "The Christian life has not been tried and found wanting. It has been found difficult and left untried."
Dave Waits ~ "Stopping power is a 12ga. Load of Buckshot to the center torso at five feet, anything else is supposition."
  #16  
Old 04-22-2012, 10:34 PM
UNBROKEN UNBROKEN is offline
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Consider this thread then a reminder to those that may not know they're giving up their rights as buyers when they use the gift option.
Many people don't understand how PayPal works...I'd rather bring it to their attention now than hear about a bad transaction later.

If you think I'm off base a 10 second Google search will find you tons of websites with sale forums that have put a stop to this practice.
  #17  
Old 04-22-2012, 10:37 PM
Dbltapster Dbltapster is offline
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The "gift" requirement isn't really a requirement of the seller. He/She is just saying, "I don't want to eat the 3% Paypal fee.

If you want to buy from one of these sellersl, just send the amount plus the 3%. That way, Paypal will be happy because they get their money...The seller will be happy because he won't have to cover the fee...and you will be happy with your buyer protection. -- If you don't want to cover the sellers 3% fee, DONT BUY HIS STUFF! End of story.

It ain't rocket science! Gee Wiz!
  #18  
Old 04-23-2012, 12:51 AM
New_World New_World is offline
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paypal is already rich. lol
  #19  
Old 04-23-2012, 06:06 AM
T Cro T Cro is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UNBROKEN View Post
.... If you think I'm off base a 10 second Google search will find you tons of websites with sale forums that have put a stop to this practice.
I'm sure that if you look one can Google up the fact that Pink Elephants roam wild in the streets; but your comment is the absolute first that I've heard of internet forums stipulating how payments must be handled and I'm currently active in at least 7 motorcycle and gun forums.
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  #20  
Old 04-23-2012, 06:21 AM
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If you have a beef with Paypal, I would suggest that you take it up with them. The owners have no say in what policies are in place for financial transactions and all financial matters are the sole responsibility of the seller and the buyer. This includes the risk associated with exchanging goods and currencies with complete strangers on the Internet.

This is a privately owned forum and the owner pays the bills for the operation of this forum. He is under no obligation to allow you to sell or buy anything here. So, if this becomes a big headache for the owner because some of you want to come here and attempt to make it his problem, it would not come as a surprise to see the Market threads go away.

End of discussion.

Fin
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Last edited by Staff; 04-23-2012 at 08:42 AM.
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