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  #1  
Old 12-19-2011, 08:20 PM
KCurtisJr KCurtisJr is offline
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Pistol Targets




I just picked up a 1911 .45 and also shoot a .44 rem mag. After going to the range and shooting paper shilouetes. I wanted to know what everyone else is shooting. Any good home made steel targets?


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Last edited by KCurtisJr; 12-19-2011 at 09:30 PM.
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  #2  
Old 12-19-2011, 09:34 PM
Bazzle22 Bazzle22 is offline
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1 inch round stickers will suck through perfectly and dissapear if you hit them right in the middle with a 45 caliber round. You can get them at walmart in large quantities for almost nothing. Challenging, fun and very rewarding feeling after you start knocking them through more consistantly.
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  #3  
Old 12-20-2011, 05:37 AM
richpetrone richpetrone is offline
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Targets

IMHO, using small one inch targets is not conducive to good pistol shooting training. The idea of using a small target is great for rifle shooting, but goes against the prescribed "area aiming" method of shooting a handgun.
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Old 12-20-2011, 08:53 AM
Horoscope Fish Horoscope Fish is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richpetrone View Post
IMHO, using small one inch targets is not conducive to good pistol shooting training. The idea of using a small target is great for rifle shooting, but goes against the prescribed "area aiming" method of shooting a handgun.
I've not heard of the "area aiming method" for pistol shooting; would you explain that in more detail for me? Personally I find the "disappearing" target-dot idea pretty clever. I mean, who doesn't enjoy a reactive target? And I don't see how developing precision shooting skill is contrary to ANY kind of shooting discipline.

As for myself, I shoot a lot of paper targets (freebies I download online and then copy at work for free or take to Kinko's for mass copying). I like shooting different shaped targets at differing distances just for the mental aspect of changing things up a bit. For speed drills I shoot a lot of paper plates, the smaller dessert or "pie plates" as I call them. MOPP, Minute of Pie Plate is my minimum accuracy standard, even at full speed (e.g. Bill Drills) which for me, really, is not all that speedy but hey, I'm working on it.
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  #5  
Old 12-20-2011, 08:59 AM
mikeg1005 mikeg1005 is offline
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Plate rack or USPSA targets for practice.

If I'm shooting groups, I'll either grab a B-2 target at the club, or put some pasters on a USPSA target.

Mike.
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  #6  
Old 12-20-2011, 10:21 AM
richpetrone richpetrone is offline
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Area aiming when shooting a hand gun

The Army teaches the "area aiming method" for precision shooting for NRA Outdoor Bullseye competition. This means that it is best to accept your "wobble zone" in an area of the target (not an aiming point) and apply continuous pressure on the trigger pad so the shot breaks with perfect sight alignment and the control of the trigger does not disturb the sight alignment before, during, and after the shot breaks. The following is a training aid I developed an use when teaching new shooters marksmanship.

Accurate Shooting: Aiming Area and Sight Alignment

One of the most difficult concepts for a new shooter to understand is controlling the sights and trigger pull in an "aiming area" rather than only pulling the trigger when the sights are in perfect alignment with the target bullseye.
Every shooter of a handgun has a "wobble area." The more experienced shooter has a much smaller wobble area, and some can almost hold the gun virtually still for short time periods. If a person is shooting for accuracy, the most important factor to eliminate is "angular shift." Angular shift means the sights were not properly aligned in the rear notch when the shot breaks. When the sights are not correctly aligned, the angle of the bullet path is not proper with the target, and the amount of error is compounded with distance. The Army Marksmanship Blue Book states that 1/100th" of sight alignment (about the width of a human hair) error at 50 yards, will change the point of impact 3".
The greatest challenge for new shooters is to keep the sights properly aligned as they break the shot regardless of the wobble area. Too many shooters get preoccupied with only pressing on the trigger when the sights are in the bullseye. This leads to trigger jerking and an angular shift of the sights so the shot usually hits low and left for a right handed shooter. I emphasize pressing the trigger straight to the rear when the sights are properly aligned regardless of the wobble area and the illusion of the sights “not” being dead center on the target. If a person has a 2" wobble area, it gives the illusion that the sights may not even be on target at 25 yards. However, if the sights are properly aligned and the shot breaks without disturbing that alignment, the shot on the target will be within a two inch area. To counter act the effect of only pressing the trigger when the sights are within the bullseye of a target, I use a blank target. I will demonstrate by putting up a blank cardboard target at 15 yards, and shoot a group. I emphasize my focus on sight alignment before, during, and after the shot. I also mention that I am simply placing the sights within the middle of the blank target, and will squeeze the trigger straight back as long as the sights are aligned, regardless of my movement of wobble area. New shooters are rather amazed at the results when they try shooting on a blank target with total focus on keeping the sights in proper alignment as they break the shot.
Another difficult concept for some new shooters is the proper grip tension and trigger control. Some new shooters do not have the muscle training to use a firm grip, yet have a relaxed trigger finger. When they tighten up their grip to take hold of the gun, they automatically tighten their trigger finger, which is not conducive to good trigger control. The ability to use a firm grip with a relaxed trigger finger must be practiced and learned for some shooters, since they initially can not isolate the muscles that control their trigger finger. I always recommend dry fire practice for these folks, and let them know this lack of muscle control for the trigger finger is quite common and can be learned with practice.
One of the most important concepts to learn in Action Shooting events is how much sight alignment may be needed for the distance and target presentation. At close distances of 5 - 7 yards, the "angular shift" of sight alignment is not a great factor compared to the distance. On a full target, the gun can be indexed without the sights and usually get a good hit in the center of the target with proper trigger control. If you move the target to a 10 - 15 yard head shot, then it would be more important to get a better sight alignment to ensure a hit. The greater the distance to the target, or the smaller the target, the importance of proper sight alignment is magnified due to the effects of angular shift. Don't fear a long distance shot, practice them using proper sight alignment and an aiming area opposed to an aiming point.
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  #7  
Old 12-20-2011, 10:25 AM
69charger 69charger is offline
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  #8  
Old 12-20-2011, 10:37 AM
chris288 chris288 is offline
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nice explanation...

Last edited by chris288; 12-20-2011 at 10:51 AM.
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  #9  
Old 12-20-2011, 12:07 PM
hunts4food hunts4food is offline
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I made my targets from 1/4" steel. They take a beating. Mine have taken several thousand rounds from 9mm, .40S&W and 45acp. This is my range in my back yard. We shoot every weekend and are in the process of adding a couple more silhoettes.
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  #10  
Old 12-20-2011, 12:26 PM
1-DAB 1-DAB is online now
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never liked the idea of shooting at steel targets. was taught many moons ago to never shoot at steel, water, or rocks due to the danger of ricochets.

paper targets work just fine.
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  #11  
Old 12-20-2011, 01:02 PM
Rod38um Rod38um is offline
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Thats a nice set up Hunts4food........ I'd like to have my stuff set permanently like that. I love shooting steel.......... nothing quite like it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fWBY...el_video_title
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  #12  
Old 12-20-2011, 01:21 PM
chris288 chris288 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1-DAB View Post
never liked the idea of shooting at steel targets. was taught many moons ago to never shoot at steel, water, or rocks due to the danger of ricochets.

paper targets work just fine.
Theres always frangible ammo
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  #13  
Old 12-20-2011, 01:41 PM
pmclaine pmclaine is offline
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Rpetrone,

Great post. Headed to the range with a K-22 to give it a try. Thanks for the effort or cut and paste.

Phil M

1515 hours update

From 10 yards double action S&W K-22 revolver, 50 rounds on 50 ft NRA Timed and Rapid Fire Pistol Target

1 - 6 ring
1 - 7
5 - 8
43 - 9 ring or better with a nice knot at 2200 in 10 ring/X ring

This is a good shoot for me! I've never adjusted the sights because I have never had a tight enough group to do so. 1 right, 1 down will get me there. Thank you Obie Wan! Ignore the target, focus on sight alignment only. I hope this works on big guns too.

Last edited by pmclaine; 12-20-2011 at 02:27 PM.
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  #14  
Old 12-20-2011, 01:51 PM
hunts4food hunts4food is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod38um View Post
Thats a nice set up Hunts4food........ I'd like to have my stuff set permanently like that. I love shooting steel.......... nothing quite like it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fWBY...el_video_title
I just subscribed to your videos so I can check out the Les Baer more....been thinking about one myself.
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  #15  
Old 12-20-2011, 01:58 PM
mikeg1005 mikeg1005 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1-DAB View Post
never liked the idea of shooting at steel targets. was taught many moons ago to never shoot at steel, water, or rocks due to the danger of ricochets.

paper targets work just fine.
Targets made of the correct grade of steel and shaped correctly are very unlikely to return richocets.... 1000s of us do it every weekend at pistol matches(not trying to change your mind... just saying it can be safely done)

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris288 View Post
Theres always frangible ammo
Just gotta make sure its good steel/the right shape... theres guys throwing 125gr fmj 9mm rounds at 1350+fps at them.

MIke.
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  #16  
Old 12-20-2011, 03:13 PM
Hardbawl Hardbawl is offline
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Sink a double bitted axe into a large log butt. Put a clay bird on either side of the axe blade. The first guy to break both clay birds [with one shot] by splitting the bullet on the axe blade wins. Lots of fun. Little tip: use a 45, this is real tough with a 9.
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  #17  
Old 12-20-2011, 04:56 PM
richpetrone richpetrone is offline
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Area Aiming with a handgun

Quote:
Thanks for the effort or cut and paste.
I kind of paraphrased the Army Marksmanship manual's insights on "area aiming" and added my own insights and experience on shooting. Feel free to cut and paste my work to anyone that wishes to improve their marksmanship.

I was at our club/outdoor range the other day, checking out a gun I had been "tweaking." I didn't feel like setting up cardboard targets, and used one of the club's plate racks. There had been an IDPA classifier that day, and I didn't shoot it since I shot one in October. I had to wait until the guys cleared the shooting bay so I could test my gun. I began with some one shot draws at 12 yds, and gradually worked into shooting all plates as fast as possible. I then practiced some reloads, while shooting the rack. I then decided to move back to roughly 35 yards to shoot the plates. A couple of my shooting friends were still hanging around and when they saw me move to the 35 yard line, one of the guys said, "This I gotta see...." I drew the gun, took a bit slower aim concentrating on pure sight alignment, and proceeded to knock down each plate with one shot. One of the guys made a comment...."very impressive!"

At 35 yds, I had to slow down enough to get full and near perfect sight alignment to break the shot. I used "area aiming" and a controlled trigger press straight to the rear.
Too many shooters try to only press the trigger when the sights are in perfect alignment with the center of the target....this stopping and starting on the trigger, often called "milking the trigger" is not conducive to good trigger control and causes "snatching" the trigger what is commonly referred to as "jerking the trigger." More often than not, when a person "snatches" the trigger, they lose the ability to keep the sights in alignment, and "angular shift" changes the POI so the shot misses the target. Area aiming is the preferred techique for long distance and/or precise shooting when needed.

Last edited by richpetrone; 12-20-2011 at 05:19 PM.
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  #18  
Old 12-20-2011, 05:18 PM
compact45 compact45 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeg1005 View Post
Targets made of the correct grade of steel and shaped correctly are very unlikely to return richocets.... 1000s of us do it every weekend at pistol matches(not trying to change your mind... just saying it can be safely done)



Just gotta make sure its good steel/the right shape... theres guys throwing 125gr fmj 9mm rounds at 1350+fps at them.

MIke.
+1 .... Been shooting steel with pistol and rifle (HV Steel Targets) for many years at my own back yard range and had no problemos. Paper targets have its place but gets boring after a while.
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Last edited by compact45; 12-20-2011 at 05:21 PM.
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Old 12-20-2011, 06:22 PM
pmclaine pmclaine is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richpetrone View Post
Too many shooters try to only press the trigger when the sights are in perfect alignment with the center of the target....this stopping and starting on the trigger, often called "milking the trigger" is not conducive to good trigger control and causes "snatching" the trigger what is commonly referred to as "jerking the trigger." More often than not, when a person "snatches" the trigger, they lose the ability to keep the sights in alignment, and "angular shift" changes the POI so the shot misses the target. Area aiming is the preferred techique for long distance and/or precise shooting when needed.
I've been trying to practice weekly for the last two years. My routine is 50 rounds one week through a work gun and 50 rounds the next week with an off duty gun. Every week I shoot 50 rounds from the K-22. Its what I can afford time and money wise.

Two years ago my targets looked like teenagers with acne. Overtime the acne became more concentrated on the edge of the black at 7 O'clock. I know this is a technique issue. I am snatching the trigger trying to make the shot when my sights are in the center of the target (right hand shooter).

Lately my hits have been grouping well at 9 O'Clock. I like the gain in elevation but I think I'm pushing the gun left and still snatching at the trigger trying to make it go bang when the sights are centered in the bull.

I've heard of the wobble zone and working with letting the gun dance and concentrating solely on the perfect sight alignment but never really applied it like today. Having read your post as I was on my way to the range allowed me to get it in my mind "This is how I will do it today." and it worked well. I have confidence that the group I made today is one I can adjust my sights off of and bring my shots into the target if I use the same proper techniques.

I just bought a Smith and Wesson 52-2. I've shot it twice and it is such a fine gun it groups regardless of the operator. I look forward to hugging my wobble when using that gun.

Thanks again.
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Old 12-20-2011, 06:43 PM
Tenringx2 Tenringx2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeg1005 View Post
Targets made of the correct grade of steel and shaped correctly are very unlikely to return richocets.... 1000s of us do it every weekend at pistol matches(not trying to change your mind... just saying it can be safely done)



Just gotta make sure its good steel/the right shape... theres guys throwing 125gr fmj 9mm rounds at 1350+fps at them.

MIke.
AR500 steel, otherwise known as bullet proof armor, not so much the shape but, how it is set up matters.......top slightly tipped forward (towards you) splatter is sent at the ground. One thing to be careful of when shooting steel is to be perpendicular to the target (not at an angle). Too much angle and a ricochet can happen.

How did you know how hot my 9mm rounds were
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Last edited by Tenringx2; 12-20-2011 at 06:46 PM.
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Old 12-21-2011, 12:40 AM
jfwest jfwest is offline
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Other than on the silhouette range, we cannot use steel targets where I regularly shoot. For fun shooting I use paper plates with a 2" circle made with a black marker pen.
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  #22  
Old 12-21-2011, 10:09 AM
WalterGC WalterGC is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richpetrone View Post
IMHO, using small one inch targets is not conducive to good pistol shooting training. The idea of using a small target is great for rifle shooting, but goes against the prescribed "area aiming" method of shooting a handgun.
So, Rich, what you're saying is that all handgun shooting has the same "area aiming" methodology prescribed???
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Old 12-24-2011, 06:15 AM
richpetrone richpetrone is offline
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Area aiming

Quote:
So, Rich, what you're saying is that all handgun shooting has the same "area aiming" methodology prescribed???
I am not saying that at all.... The area aiming methodolgy is taught by the Army Marksmanship unit for precision shooting. If a person wants to shoot for small groups, which means very precise shooting, area aiming is best for most shooters.

The amount of sight alignment required for any shot to properly hit what is being "aimed at" is a function of 1) the distance to the target and 2) the size of the target provided you have an accurate and properly sighted gun.

Single action fast draw revolver sharpshooters (like Bob Munsden) shoot from the hip with amazing results and don't use the sights. I don't think they would have much success hip shooting at a 50 yard target with a 3" Bullseye.

One of the most difficult things I had to learn in action pistol shooting is how fast and how much sight alignment time I needed for various distances and target presentations. For targets at 5 yds, I could index the gun without using the sights and get a good COM hit. For 10-15 yds, I would use "flash sight picture." For twenty yards and out, or a tight head shot at closer distance, I would have to slow down to get a good sight picture to get a hit.

For shots of 30 yds or more, I have to slow down to get a very good sight focus and use proper follow through.

Years ago, when I was shooting IPSC and working on my draw from the holster, I was shooting at a steel target shaped like an IPSC target ten yards away. I would draw the weapon to chest high then extend the gun to my normal isosceles shooting stance and break the shot. I kept pushing for faster and faster sight acquisition, until I would barely see the sight, and was pretty much point shooting. My one shot draws were in the .72 - .78 second range, but my hits were not always in the COM. A shooting buddy used my range timer set on "random" so I wouldn't anticipate the buzzer. Anticipating the buzzer would improve my speed to the first shot. I finally determined for a 10 yd target, and to ensure a good "A" zone hit, I needed to slow down just enough to have flash sight picture and break the shot in .98 to 1 second. The greater the distance or the smaller the size of the target requires better sight focus so I have to make adjustments to slow down for better sight alignment to ensure a hit.

Last edited by richpetrone; 12-24-2011 at 06:30 AM.
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  #24  
Old 12-24-2011, 11:31 AM
patton63 patton63 is offline
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I started my son eight-year old shooting bowling pin matches this year. The season is over for the winter, but I picked up a number of paper bowling pin targets that I hang in two rows of two. He shoots either a Browning Buckmark or my GSG.22. We load eight rounds and he works the targets in varying patterns (e.g., clockwise, counterclockwise; alternating corners; up/down). This allows him to continue working on target acquisition, while he works on trigger control. It isn't the same as knocking the pins down, but for an indoor range, it is proving to be a good option.
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  #25  
Old 12-24-2011, 01:10 PM
Kimura Kimura is offline
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http://pistol-training.com Todd does a drill of the week. Different targets for different drills. Some for speed. Last week was 25 yards bullseye shooting with a B8 target. Very interesting stuff. I highly recommend it, but you'll need a good holster and a timer to do many of them.

I live by the Vickers motto of "Speed is fine, Accuracy is final". I try to run every drill for 100% hit ratio and I try to push my speed, but not to the point of getting several misses. Just what works for me. And yet, I still get misses. Imagine that.
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