Factory spring weights

[SD1911dude]

How do variable spring weights affect functionality/timing?

[mer]

Originally Posted by SD1911dude

How do variable spring weights affect functionality/timing?

It varies.

Sorry couldn't resist.

Variable rate springs do not have a linear response to the force applied. Basically a spring is often rated by how many pounds it takes to compress it one inch. If you have a spring whose rate is 5 lbs per inch (assume the overall length is sufficient) put 5 lbs on it, it compresses 1 inch. 10 lbs, 2 inches, 20 lbs, 4 inches. A variable rate spring is designed to not be uniform over the entire distance; springs in a motorcycle shock are typically variable rate. They are designed so the first bit of travel requires less force, say 1 lb for the first inch, then as compress the spring it takes more than 1 additional pound for the next inch. In a motorcycle, this means you soak up little bumps without effort, but you take more effort to bottom the spring out.

In a recoil spring, I'd guess that a variable rate spring would let the slide move back rather easily for the first bit, which probably speeds unlocking, but the further the slide moves back the harder it gets, slowing the slide down drastically. If it's tuned correctly it probably doesn't affect the overall timing of the feed cycle that much. As the slide comes back forward (spring uncompressing) it may start fast, but then the rate of return slows down so it doesn't stop as hard against the slide stop.

Keep in mind these are just guesses on my part, I'm not a gunsmith, I haven't played with variable rate springs in anything. Someone with more hands on experience may tell you I'm completely FOS with my guess; so be it.

[DeafJeff]

Originally Posted by Keith DW

Please make this a sticky.

All Wolff springs

Full sized .45 18.5 lb
Full sized 10mm 20.0 lb
Full sized .40 S&W 16.0 lb
Full sized 9mm 10.0 lb

Commander .45 20.0 lb
Commander 10mm 22.0 lb

These are all standard springs. No variable springs.

Full sized mainsprings 18.5 lb

Bobtail mainsprings 23 lb

Firing pin springs
Extra power or Extra, Extra power

Keith,

What I (and surely many others) would greatly appreciate is if you could augment your great information post with recommended spring replacement intervals.
I just shot my 1000th round out of my CBOB and wonder if it's time to change the recoil spring.

Thanks!
DJ.

[CSIMIAMI]

Originally Posted by Keith DW

Please make this a sticky.

All Wolff springs

Full sized .45 18.5 lb
Full sized 10mm 20.0 lb
Full sized .40 S&W 16.0 lb
Full sized 9mm 10.0 lb

Commander .45 20.0 lb
Commander 10mm 22.0 lb
Commander 9mm 12.0 lb

These are all standard springs. No variable springs.

Full sized mainsprings 18.5 lb

Bobtail mainsprings 23 lb

Firing pin springs
Extra power or Extra, Extra power

My DW CBOB is 110% reliable after 1,500 rounds with a Wolff Commander 18# regular...not variable... spring. A 20# spring causes brass to fly to mars and back and an occasional jam here and there. Why..?... only a mad scientist might wager a guess. 18# spring and brass goes about say 15 feet out....perfect.

I had to replace the Checkmate magazine springs with Wolff +10% springs or the slide on occasion would not stay locked back and feeding issues were one in a 300 chance...not good enough for me. It does not like Wilson mags...nor Mc Cormick mags...nor Metalform mags...it has to be 110% or it gets sold...it's 110%...now.

It's been throated and polished by the Keithmeister (Keith can do anything and everything that KnightHawk or Brown can do...just do not tell him...imagine what his ego would be like..) and shoots groups at 25 yards of 1/8"-1/4"...it's tighter.. but perfectly fitted.

I have a $ 3,000.00 Springfield Professional which as you may know.. is the 1911 that beat out the rest in FBI tests for the gun the FBI adopted as the Hostage/Swat Rescue 1911. DW CBOB is as reliable and accurate and shiny too!

The DW CBOB can shoot...S&B/WWB/Magtech/Remington/Federal and Winclean ball and it has been tested with Winchester SXT/PDX1/Ranger Bonded & Hornady Hollowpoints. 110% reliability and accuracy.

Light TW25B on the rails and FP-10 elsewhere...a tad bit better than just FP-10 alone..ask the folks at Sig.... smack...right? No. I tested it both ways. Hates Wilson lube..too heavy. FP-10 is better than CLP.

Okay...I am preaching to the choir...

Keith Rocks!

Mike

[bluelineman]

Originally Posted by Dave Severns

NOTE: Many shooters find the factory mainspring weights in their CBOB are inadequate for reliable ignition. I personally recommend using only the Wolff 23# sping in the CBOB platform carry pistol. Same goes for the CCO pistol, when used for carry.

Just bought a CBOB with approx 700 rounds through it. Took it to the range & noticed some things. First, there is slide stop notch peening. What could be causing this? The mags that came with it are a Wilson 47D & a Wilson 7 rounder. The 7 rounder has weak springs, not allowing the slide to stay locked back after the last round is fired about half the time.

Also, I am having rounds hit me in the face. I have a nice burn mark on my right temple where a round got caught between my head & shooting glasses. I have been told (I am a 1911 noob) that this is likely the ejector.

Do I need to get the ejector tweaked a bit? Do I need a new recoil spring to stop the slide stop notch peening? What do you recommend for a recoil spring weight?

[BeaverJack]

Good info.

[ryanSTi]

We use a bunch of different springs at my work and I just wanted to chime in here and say that wire OD is not the only thing that determines the weight at a certain compressed height of a spring.

Wire material, how it is wound, spacing between coils, and coils per distance all effect the poundage at x height.

If you notice the progressive springs you mention in one spring with one OD, it can vary.

Also, for example, a 18lb spring will only take 18lbs at a given compression. It can be more or less at different compressed lengths.

Originally Posted by Star4Ever

Question on springs:

Is there any relationship between the spring wire diameter and the pound rating of the spring itself?

I ordered back about 10 years ago a nice Wilson spring kit that came in a blue roll up bag that had a variety of springs included. I noticed that when i mic'ed the springs the pound rating was related to the wire diameter. The higher the poundage rating the larger the wire diameter.

Now this observation is limited only to that kit. But then, can we somehow extrapolate a measured wire diameter of a "unknown" spring and then "estimate" its poundage rating? I suspect we can.

Your thoughts on this?

I measured the "standard" springs in my kit and here are the results:

8# = .0380
10# = .0395
11# = .0405
12# = .0425
17# = .0450
18.5# = .0455

Now some oddball springs in my kit ....

10# = .0355 this is a SPARCO Progressive Spring with tight winds near the base and looser near the tip
14# = .0420 this is a SPARCO Progressive Spring with tight winds near the base and looser near the tip

lastly... a spare original Dan Wesson Pointman - Major spring measuring .0435 so I recon it to be about 13#
based on the standard springs above.

[whenmonkeysfly]

So the Recoil Spring for DW Razorback Sportsman & Limited Edition 10mm are here:

http://www.gunsprings.com/Semi-Auto%...D1/mID16/dID91

this one:

53820 CZ75/85/97B Models, XP Recoil Spring 20LB ?

and this one if shooting hotter loads:

53822 CZ75/85/97B Models, XP Recoil Spring 22LB ?

Any recommendations? Thanks in advance!

WMF (Jay)

[nickE10mm]

Originally Posted by whenmonkeysfly

So the Recoil Spring for DW Razorback Sportsman & Limited Edition 10mm are here:

http://www.gunsprings.com/Semi-Auto%...D1/mID16/dID91

this one:

53820 CZ75/85/97B Models, XP Recoil Spring 20LB ?

and this one if shooting hotter loads:

53822 CZ75/85/97B Models, XP Recoil Spring 22LB ?

Any recommendations? Thanks in advance!

WMF (Jay)

No... actually, the location for the Razorback springs would be located here:

http://www.gunsprings.com/Semi-Auto%...ID1/mID1/dID64

You want to refer to the location of Colt Delta Elite springs. Keep in mind that the spring names are a bit misleading since the 18, 20 and 22lb springs show as being "RP" or "Reduced Power". They are labeled this way because the ORIGINAL FACTORY Delta springs were 23lb.

For the record, 20lb is THE WEIGHT to use for a 10mm in 90% of cases. For the other 10% of the time, 22-24lb springs could be used (ie, consistent firing of heavier loads). Make sure you install the XP Firing Pin Springs that come with the Wolff recoil springs for safety.

[whenmonkeysfly]

Thanks for the info NickE. I will be consistently shooting full power 10mm loads, e.g., 180 grain Montana Gold CMJ, New Starline Brass, CCI 350 Primers and 9.2 grains of Longshot Powder ~ 1350fps.

What spring weight would you recommend in my Sportsman and/or Limited?

Side Note: I built a G20LS with a 6" KKM Precision Barrel/Wolff non-captured guide rod and 24lb spring and the above loads (and down to 8.4 grains of Longshot ~1250fps) were bending and/or breaking the locking block pins after 500~800 rounds. My slide is a full length/solid slide which I think was/is too heavy. Anyway still trying to figure that one out.

Invested in the Dan Wessons with the idea they will handle full throttle 10mm loads. Plus I like the 1911 10mm platform.

Looking for any advice. I'm a huge fan of the 10mm and pretty much roll all my own. Primarily target shooting, some hunting and load development.

[nickE10mm]

[QUOTE=whenmonkeysfly;3242859]Thanks for the info NickE. I will be consistently shooting full power 10mm loads, e.g., 180 grain Montana Gold CMJ, New Starline Brass, CCI 350 Primers and 9.2 grains of Longshot Powder ~ 1350fps.

What spring weight would you recommend in my Sportsman and/or Limited?
[/QUOTE)

20-22lb if you have a flat bottomed FPS. Purely preferential if you ask me.

I'm surprised you bent a locking block pin on the Glock. Wow!

[whenmonkeysfly]

[QUOTE=nickE10mm;3242929]

Originally Posted by whenmonkeysfly

Thanks for the info NickE. I will be consistently shooting full power 10mm loads, e.g., 180 grain Montana Gold CMJ, New Starline Brass, CCI 350 Primers and 9.2 grains of Longshot Powder ~ 1350fps.

What spring weight would you recommend in my Sportsman and/or Limited?
[/QUOTE)

20-22lb if you have a flat bottomed FPS. Purely preferential if you ask me.

I'm surprised you bent a locking block pin on the Glock. Wow!

Yeah, I broke a titanium locking block pin in two places and bent two stock steel pins (significant bends). It's a nice looking/ great shooting Glock 20LS, but having some issues with locking block pins. That's another project....

Thanks for the tip!

-Jay (WMF)

[whenmonkeysfly]

I've been to the range the past couple of days with both my DW's and must say they are fine shootin' guns! My loads consisted of 9.3 grains of Longshot, CCI 350's, 180 grain Montana Gold CMJ's, Starline Brass and an OAL of 1.250. Chrono'ed and got right at 1250~1300fps. (My 1350fps mentioned in previous posts appears to have been overly optimistic with 9.2 grains of Longshot.)

I did have several FTF's and brass was getting flung a good 20-25 feet over my right shoulder. (A few pieces whacked me in the forehead.) I suspect part of the reason for the FTF's is both guns are new. But, I am also wondering if I changed the recoil spring to a 23# that the brass would not travel as far and I'd possibly have fewer or no FTF's.

Any thoughts, ideas, suggestions would be appreciated.

-Jay (WMF)

[pcrh]

Where do you guys actually buy your springs? I have checked Wolff's site, and Brownell's, and am having a hard time finding the springs I need--commander length 9mm 1911 recoil spring (12 lb standard spring).

Any guidance? Thanks...

[whenmonkeysfly]

I've bought from Brownell's, Wolff's and Wilson Combat. Wolff's has pretty decent support/technical staff. Maybe call them and explain to them what you are looking for - their website can be a little confusing IMO.

-Jay

[pcrh]

That's what I was thinking I'd have to do--pick up the phone. Thanks Jay.

[whippoorwill]

Regarding the above question as to where to buy springs... I suggest someplace other than the Dan Wesson website. I called in and ordered two recoil springs. The shipping and handling was $9.00... for two springs! Additionally, they were sent via FedEx and required a signature.

From now on, I'll probably go with Midway. At least there I can combine the shipping with other items.