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  #1  
Old 01-25-2006, 06:08 PM
Sheldonj Sheldonj is offline
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.45 120 Sharps




The boy almost has me talked into buying a modern Sharps in .45 120 this is a modern gun and only black power rounds are avilable off the shelf at a very high price per 20, so I am going to home brew my own smokeless. Uberti says the gun is good to go for smokeless, and I can get dies, bullets (.459) N brass for my RCBS rock crusher. Now have any of you out there ever cooked up any rounds for this rather exotic beast if so what.
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  #2  
Old 01-25-2006, 06:56 PM
Jim Watson Jim Watson is offline
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No I haven't, and don't want to. By all accounts, the .45 x 3 1/4" is a hard cartridge to load with smokeless powder. Accurate Arms has some data if you just must. I have read on the Shiloh board of good shooting being done with 106 grains of Fg black and a 525 gr or heavier bullet, properly lubed. But serious big gun black powder shooters usually stop at the .45 x 2 7/8", sometimes called .45-110.

Ordinary old .45-70 is much more versatile, will equal the .45 x 3 1/4" with smokeless at the pressure limits of a reproduction 19th century rifle, and will do well with black out to say 800 yards without special tricks.

Try to talk the boy down.
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  #3  
Old 01-25-2006, 07:16 PM
steveno steveno is offline
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I think I would at least start with a 45-70 as it is much more forgiving with smokeless powder
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  #4  
Old 01-26-2006, 07:50 PM
Sheldonj Sheldonj is offline
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Thanks these are some good arguments to save me $$$$$, the boys friend bought a .458 Lott and I think he is in the Jones senario, and every since he saw "Quigley Down Under" he likes the gun, I do have to admit it is a nice looking rifle.
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"The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century

"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" Sigmund Freud.
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  #5  
Old 01-26-2006, 08:32 PM
moredes15 moredes15 is offline
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long story....

but I was once looking for a 34" Sharps in 45-X. I was completely "open-minded" about the cartridge size, but had narrowed the choices down to the "most popular" factory chambers--45-70, 45-90, or 45-120.

Shot a friend's Pedersoli 1874 Sharps and got hooked; he had had to answer numerous questions for himself--bestq load (lead or copper), which sight for 100-300yd, etc. In his wanderings across the internet to find answers, he got the email address of the regional sales manager and corresponded several times with him. He became very comfortable with this man, and passed his email address on to me with a 'letter of introduction''.

Having no knowledge whatsoever about the differences between chamber sizes, and being completely ignorant about the qualities that black powder offers vs. smokeless, I asked this rep several questions--the most important to me, being, this one: is it detrimental to the rifle to shoot shorter calibers through a -120 chamber? Secondly, I asked about the advantages/disadvantages of black powder versus smokeless.

I'll tackle the second question first, because his answer was clear and succinct. For 45-70, good results can be achieved with smokeless, rivalling black powder. He tended to prefer BP, but he thought that his use of it for the last 15-odd years might prejudice his opinion. He said that the -90 and especially the -120 cartridges were so long that smokeless really couldn't perform well; they burn too fast and their burn is not generally uniform enough for dependable accuracy. This is where the BP really comes into its' own, though, in his estimation--the longer cases really allowed for excellent predictable long-range accuracy (700 yards and out) because BP allowed for the case be near full-capacity; at least, much more than the 30%-full smokeless long cases. He made a point, that if I was going to shoot < 6-700yd consistently, 45-70 smokeless would do fine once I found the correct load. I've not been past 500yd, but so far, he's right.

As to the other question--45-70, or -90, -110, in a 45-120 chamber....I could never get a straight answer out of him. I tried approaching the question in 3 different emails; he would never commit to contradicting an "old wive's tale" I'd read on the 'net. (Some folks have said that the procedure I contemplated was no problem. Others said I'd ring the chamber.) He would *never* contradict what I claimed to have found on the 'net (that 'ringing' the chamber was possible, and by some writers' accounts, probable) , but he'd never say it was right either. In this matter, he was about as squirrelly as a used car salesman, and at that point I thanked him for his help and advice and ceased correspondence. For the life of me, I can't remember his name, though I could probably get it if I wanted it again. In any case, I settled on an 1875 CSharps 45-70. The 1874 has double triggers, mine has a single trigger. I'm used to a Rem700 and an AR10. The 1875 doesn't seem much of a change from that feel.

Lastly, I've been told by folks who seem to know what they're talking about that the 32" barrel is as long as I want for a Sharps if I wanna shoot SASS or BP matches, because the 34" will violate the weight limit. Doesn't much matter to me, but you might have to consider that.

Last edited by moredes15; 01-26-2006 at 08:39 PM.
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  #6  
Old 01-26-2006, 10:02 PM
Jim Watson Jim Watson is offline
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Hard facts:
The Quigley rifle is a movie prop made up to look impressive.
It (they) are .45x2 7/8", which is authentic, Sharps never made a .45x3 1/4".
It has a military buttstock which will accentuate recoil if you are not shooting blanks.
It has a 34" barrel which increases the difficulty of managing black powder fouling.

There are better guns for actual shooting.

Add per Moredes

You can physically shoot a shorter .45x? in a longer chamber. It will not "erode" the chamber any more than it will erode the throat of its proper barrel. Accuracy is probably another question entirely.

Weight limits: BPCR silhouette weight limit is 12 lb 2 oz. Probably converted from 5.5 kilograms. You have to be careful with your shopping there, Shiloh will help you on their rifles and likely Dick Trenck with Pedersoli. Long Range weight limit is 15 lbs, not hard to make.

Last edited by Jim Watson; 01-26-2006 at 10:08 PM.
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  #7  
Old 01-30-2006, 05:49 PM
Sheldonj Sheldonj is offline
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went to Cabellas

The 120 we looked at was a little primitive looking for the K it cost, the action was smooth, the "Quigley" on the ohter hand was refined lots of nice embelishments, the guy in the gun library said 777 was what he uses in his 120, but a very bad choice for a gun for dangerous game. Mutiple reasons, too heavy to carry for very long, too long to target, and if you scratched it in the bush he would feel real bad about it, so I talked the boy into the last Whinchester, an model 70 super sarfari in .416 rem mag, still a expensive round but we can still cook our own which is plan A. As to the "Quigley" that is still on the roster but just not for now.
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"The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century

"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" Sigmund Freud.
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  #8  
Old 02-01-2006, 10:32 AM
Jim Watson Jim Watson is offline
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Triple 7 is a hotter powder than real black; a .45x3.25" loaded with it will be a real handful but I don't guess a serious problem to somebody otherwise looking at .458 Lott and .416.

I agree that a Sharps repro is not the best for dangerous game for the reasons given. The buffalo hunters commonly shot from about 300 yards, far enough not to spook the rest of the herd with muzzle blast, near enough for good hits on a big animal. I don't worry about scratches on a hunting rifle, though.
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  #9  
Old 02-01-2006, 11:15 AM
dekalf dekalf is offline
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Scratches on a hunting rifle only add character.
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