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  #1  
Old 05-03-2012, 07:42 AM
Ellington Ellington is offline
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Should she have just shot him?




http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...f=black-voices

Does this make any sense to anyone? I guess she should have just taken a beating? Florida's handling of Stand Your Ground doesn't seem consistent. This is a perfect example of my belief in the quote that is attached to my profile... I'd bet that she'd have been better off to just shoot the guy.
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  #2  
Old 05-03-2012, 09:27 AM
SRJim SRJim is offline
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Should go here http://forums.1911forum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=75


BTW, I think this SYG law blitz is insane. Next, speeding ticket defense will use SYG if you're in Florida. Maybe jay walking.
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  #3  
Old 05-03-2012, 09:52 AM
HT77 HT77 is online now
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Just like with the Zimmerman/Martin situation I refused to accept the original news media representations and my reaction has proven to be completely justified since what we now know fact-wise in that case is 100% different from the original news stories. This is the same thing. I would bet the ranch that there are so many relevant facts being excluded because I know how the Huffington Post operates with their agenda. It took a jury 12 minutes to convict her. There is much more to this story than what they have presented but they are so desperate to find a comparison to the Martin shooting even if it means that they exclude most of the facts. Everything you read in the media has to be analyzed in this way because they are so dishonest.
  #4  
Old 05-03-2012, 10:08 AM
BillD BillD is online now
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Originally Posted by HT77 View Post
Just like with the Zimmerman/Martin situation I refused to accept the original news media representations and my reaction has proven to be completely justified since what we now know fact-wise in that case is 100% different from the original news stories. This is the same thing. I would bet the ranch that there are so many relevant facts being excluded because I know how the Huffington Post operates with their agenda. It took a jury 12 minutes to convict her. There is much more to this story than what they have presented but they are so desperate to find a comparison to the Martin shooting even if it means that they exclude most of the facts. Everything you read in the media has to be analyzed in this way because they are so dishonest.
I agree. NBC left out some pretty relevant stuff in the 911 tapes. Of course, it played better from their viewpoint.
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  #5  
Old 05-03-2012, 10:16 AM
HT77 HT77 is online now
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I agree. NBC left out some pretty relevant stuff in the 911 tapes. Of course, it played better from their viewpoint.
Goes further than that Bill. Remember the misleading photos they used at the beginning of the story? Also, the stories focused completely on the "racism" issue they tried to stir up. The media is a joke and if more facts about this incident come out we will see that this story is completely misleading too. The Huffington Post, which did this story. was actually one of the worst media offenders in the Zimmerman/Martin media fraud.
  #6  
Old 05-03-2012, 11:12 AM
Ellington Ellington is offline
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I hear what you guys are saying, but are you only questioning her so much because of the media source? Conservative media outlets are just as biased as liberal ones. If this was posted on Fox News would you be so quick to question the story? I don't know and I don't wanna open that can of worms again, but this story just seems unfair to me. Understanding that none of us were there and will never know the "facts," based upon what I've read, I can't see how she should be locked up for even one year. Quite frankly, I'm starting to question these Stand Your Ground laws too. The laws seem right on paper, but when I see how they can play out, I get uncomfortable. If an unarmed person physically attacks me, do I have the right to shoot them if I "THINK" they're armed or could harm me? If I'm about to get beat up, can I pull out a gun? What about fighting back and maybe risk taking an ass whipping? There are so many grey areas between size, sex, and weight difference that it's hard to say when a person is truly in grave danger. IDK... Surely, my comments will get me labeled as a Judas to the gun community, but these are my thoughts and concerns. I don't know if the lady provoked the dude or what. The fact that the guy has a history of beating women and seemed to be going after her leads me to believe that she has a right to do something before he got his hands on her. What should she have done? Run? Girls are slow. Fought him off? Girls are generally weak. Again, like ANY story, none of us were there to get the whole picture. Nonetheless, this story doesn't sit right with me. If you're cool with her being locked up... ok... I guess...
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  #7  
Old 05-03-2012, 09:45 AM
joedel joedel is offline
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This will probably morph into another Zimmerman thread but I'll just say the facts in this case are very different and it appears the Judge in the SYG hearing and the trial Jury didn't buy her version of the event and convicted her. The 20 year mandatory sentence is crazy (as are almost all mandatory minimum laws).
  #8  
Old 05-03-2012, 10:13 AM
joedel joedel is offline
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I would think if this woman had a broken nose, a bruised and bloody head and there was an eye witness who saw the man on top of her bashing her head into the floor just before she discharged the weapon she very likely would have been acquitted (or not even charged).

Every case has a unique set of facts.
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Old 05-03-2012, 11:20 AM
joedel joedel is offline
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To me, the biggest red flag in the story is that the jury took 12 minutes to convict her? I find it hard to believe that a FL jury would convict a woman who was a supposed victim of repeated domestic abuse of felony assault (with a mandatory 20 year sentence) against the alleged abuser.

It just doesn't seem credible to me that 12 people would agree that quickly that she was definitely guilty if the facts portrayed in the article were the true facts presented at trial.
  #10  
Old 05-03-2012, 11:27 AM
joedel joedel is offline
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If those are the true facts then yes, Judge and jury should be ashamed, but it's just hard to believe a jury convicted her that quickly on those facts.

I'd reserve judgement until I read her initial statement to the police and a transcript of her trial testimony (assuming she testified because if she didn't she guaranteed a conviction). I'd like to read the husband's statement and trial testimony as well.
  #11  
Old 05-03-2012, 11:34 AM
6285108 6285108 is offline
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I'd reserve judgement until I read her initial statement to the police and a transcript of her trial testimony (assuming she testified because if she didn't she guaranteed a conviction).
The words you have in quotation marks are chilling, the jury is to not infer one thing by the lack of testimony by the defendant...if that's the general public view I am for professional jurors because apparently regular jury pool folk are too damn stupid or do not understand their job.
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  #12  
Old 05-03-2012, 11:39 AM
joedel joedel is offline
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The words you have in quotation marks are chilling, the jury is to not infer one thing by the lack of testimony by the defendant...if that's the general public view I am for professional jurors because apparently regular jury pool folk are too damn stupid or do not understand their job.
In a self defense case where there are no witnesses (other than the two parties involved) remaining silent allows the prosecution and the other party to completely define the situation. Not a wise legal strategy at all. Self defense cases are unique in this aspect.
  #13  
Old 05-04-2012, 11:34 AM
darthkevin darthkevin is offline
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This is a big pile of crap. This guy is a real piece of work to begin with, but she didn't have to stay with him. It's a lose lose situation, so its better to just leave the guy IMHO.
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  #14  
Old 05-05-2012, 11:21 AM
Ellington Ellington is offline
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What's your point? Are you making this a racial issue or are you saying that the guy at Taco Bell was justified? Either way, you're kind of helping my whole point... The Stand Your Ground laws have too much grey area and I still don't recommend shooting unarmed people if you're aren't in obvious imminent danger... Peace out, kid.
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  #15  
Old 05-05-2012, 11:25 AM
6285108 6285108 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellington View Post
What's your point? Are you making this a racial issue or are you saying that the guy at Taco Bell was justified? Either way, you're kind of helping my whole point... The Stand Your Ground laws have too much grey area and I still don't recommend shooting unarmed people if you're aren't in obvious imminent danger... Peace out, kid.
On April 3rd, Daniel Adkins, a 29-year-old unarmed Hispanic, was killed by Cordell Jude while he was walking his dog by a Taco Bell in Arizona in "self-defence." Adkins was almost struck while walking by the drive thru. The police report states that "the driver slammed on the brakes, just missing Adkins. The two men exchanged words." Daniel and Cordell had an angry exchange, which led the 22-year-old black man to shoot Adkins, killing him


Not one hand was laid upon Cordell Jude and he is uncharged...make of it what you will Evidently some people are not having it as "hard" as GZ
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  #16  
Old 05-05-2012, 12:59 PM
BDA45 BDA45 is offline
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Originally Posted by 6285108 View Post
On April 3rd, Daniel Adkins, a 29-year-old unarmed Hispanic, was killed by Cordell Jude while he was walking his dog by a Taco Bell in Arizona in "self-defence." Adkins was almost struck while walking by the drive thru. The police report states that "the driver slammed on the brakes, just missing Adkins. The two men exchanged words." Daniel and Cordell had an angry exchange, which led the 22-year-old black man to shoot Adkins, killing him


Not one hand was laid upon Cordell Jude and he is uncharged...make of it what you will Evidently some people are not having it as "hard" as GZ
Not yet anyway. It is interesting that the Adkins incident isn't up for discussion though.

There is a story in L&P on the story related to SYG with a link. That CNN link states,

"He told police he had no choice but to shoot. He said he couldn't drive away from Adkins because the dog was in the way and he "thought he had no other options," according to the police report."

"While the shooter said he did not believe Adkins would have killed him and his fiancée had he not fired, he also said he feared Adkins was trying to hurt him."


As no other media I have seen includes this language, it is suspect, but if these statements have any truth to them - I can't imagine charges won't arise.
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  #17  
Old 05-10-2012, 06:23 AM
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stillwater stillwater is offline
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He said he couldn't drive away from Adkins because the dog was in the way and he "thought he had no other options," according to the police report."
I see. A dog lover. That explains everything! Better to perforate a person than risk injuring a dog with your car. I can see his point....
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  #18  
Old 05-11-2012, 05:00 PM
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dsk dsk is offline
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This is not really Armed Citizen content since it deals with a controversial shooting and ruling. Please continue the discussion in the newer thread here.
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  #19  
Old 05-05-2012, 04:29 PM
pleasant1911 pleasant1911 is offline
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He should be in charged just like the other shooting case in fl Regular people should not be capping each other it's bs. does he have a ccw permit? Did he flee? Its crazy. Anyone capping each other in other than very grave situation
  #20  
Old 05-06-2012, 11:11 AM
6285108 6285108 is offline
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HT77 just because the guy was allegedly begging for his life doesn't mean he didn't have a plan of attack when the gun was lowered or when his wife turned to run. His wife may well have known what the possibilities were if she let her guard down, who knows you better than your wife?

The Zimmerman case and Cordell Jude case are better for comparison...but Cordell Jude shot Adkins from about 7-10 feet away, but since Adkins is retarded nobody gives a damn about him...evidently
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  #21  
Old 05-06-2012, 11:24 AM
HT77 HT77 is online now
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Originally Posted by 6285108 View Post
HT77 just because the guy was allegedly begging for his life doesn't mean he didn't have a plan of attack when the gun was lowered or when his wife turned to run. His wife may well have known what the possibilities were if she let her guard down, who knows you better than your wife?
I'm not saying the woman should have disarmed herself or let her guard down, but when the person that was the aggressor has given up (at least for the moment) you cannot fire shots. If she had maintained her defensive position against him without firing she would have been fine but she fired and therefore the arrest was appropriate.
  #22  
Old 05-06-2012, 01:54 PM
heathbar_tx heathbar_tx is offline
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Originally Posted by 6285108 View Post
HT77 just because the guy was allegedly begging for his life doesn't mean he didn't have a plan of attack when the gun was lowered or when his wife turned to run. His wife may well have known what the possibilities were if she let her guard down, who knows you better than your wife?

The Zimmerman case and Cordell Jude case are better for comparison...but Cordell Jude shot Adkins from about 7-10 feet away, but since Adkins is retarded nobody gives a damn about him...evidently
Before jumping to her defense you should read some of the comments at the bottmom. One guy has a link to why the prosecutor filed these charges. It not only states she could have left the house from several exits that werent blocked but she went to the garage, got her gun and re-entered the house. Not only that after posting bail she went to his house which she did not live at and attacked him again. Her bail was revoked and had new charges tacked on.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/89763383/S...n-for-Immunity
  #23  
Old 05-06-2012, 02:34 PM
HT77 HT77 is online now
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Before jumping to her defense you should read some of the comments at the bottmom. One guy has a link to why the prosecutor filed these charges. It not only states she could have left the house from several exits that werent blocked but she went to the garage, got her gun and re-entered the house. Not only that after posting bail she went to his house which she did not live at and attacked him again. Her bail was revoked and had new charges tacked on.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/89763383/S...n-for-Immunity
I know I sound like a broken record but the bottom line is if you are going to read propaganda media like the Huffington Post as your source for news, you are only going to get an agenda driven story that has little to do with what actually happened. You wonder why so many people are misinformed today? Most of the people that read that story are never going to see or hear what actually happened so they will forever believe that this woman was treated unfairly. They did the same thing with Zimmerman which is one reason most people are not really aware of the actual facts of that incident either. And that is just one story. People who religiously read the Huffington Post are completely misinformed about everything they read there because its just propaganda.
  #24  
Old 05-06-2012, 04:24 PM
6285108 6285108 is offline
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Originally Posted by heathbar_tx View Post
Before jumping to her defense you should read some of the comments at the bottmom. One guy has a link to why the prosecutor filed these charges. It not only states she could have left the house from several exits that werent blocked but she went to the garage, got her gun and re-entered the house. Not only that after posting bail she went to his house which she did not live at and attacked him again. Her bail was revoked and had new charges tacked on.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/89763383/S...n-for-Immunity
Wonder how they "got" the facts on her leaving the house to go out to the garage and retrieve her firearm...If she told the police that she's an idiot..I'll stand by my statement ...maintain your right to shut the heck up...and if the husband is the witness to the facts I wouldn't put much faith in his testimony. If that information is correct in the probable cause statement then she is guilty and if she opened her mouth and told the police the information contained within she's guilty and dumb
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  #25  
Old 05-09-2012, 12:54 PM
dillehayd dillehayd is offline
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RE the thread title, she "should" have left the first time he "put a hand" on her.
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