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  #1  
Old 01-14-2011, 09:24 AM
Ticeman Ticeman is offline
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Iowa...in an uproar!




Holy smokes, this state is goin crazy. There are letters to the editor in the Des Moines paper daily regarding gun control, front page articles, it's all over the news about the new gun laws. Permit classes are overflowing, I was in one the other day that had a 100+ people, and the next class was about the same.

Our new Gov. stated last night that he will not touch the gun law issue because he is a big gun proponent, he stated "It just seems too me that if there are more people carrying guns, a bad guy will be less likely to commit a crime" bravo! finally, a a governor that gets it!

From the front page this morning...


http://www.desmoinesregister.com/art...t?-Not-so-fast


A local grocery store chain, Dahls's, has put up signs that ban guns on the premises, wonder how many will follow suit.
  #2  
Old 01-14-2011, 09:37 AM
BillD BillD is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ticeman View Post
Holy smokes, this state is goin crazy. There are letters to the editor in the Des Moines paper daily regarding gun control, front page articles, it's all over the news about the new gun laws. Permit classes are overflowing, I was in one the other day that had a 100+ people, and the next class was about the same.

Our new Gov. stated last night that he will not touch the gun law issue because he is a big gun proponent, he stated "It just seems too me that if there are more people carrying guns, a bad guy will be less likely to commit a crime" bravo! finally, a a governor that gets it!

From the front page this morning...


http://www.desmoinesregister.com/art...t?-Not-so-fast


A local grocery store chain, Dahls's, has put up signs that ban guns on the premises, wonder how many will follow suit.

Can they legally do that?

And if they can, remember, it's only a trespassing issue. If they see a gun, they can tell you to leave. If you refuse, you can be arrested for trespassing, assuming you are legally carrying the gun in the first place.
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  #3  
Old 01-14-2011, 09:46 AM
Ticeman Ticeman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillD View Post
Can they legally do that?

And if they can, remember, it's only a trespassing issue. If they see a gun, they can tell you to leave. If you refuse, you can be arrested for trespassing, assuming you are legally carrying the gun in the first place.
they can do that, the private property right trumps the right to carry in their stores, solution? shop somewhere else.
  #4  
Old 01-14-2011, 09:51 AM
HungrySeagull HungrySeagull is offline
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Arkansas had a similar panic after a well known reporter was brutally attacked in her bed early in the morning.

If a grocery store put up a sign saying no guns, I am concealed carry and if I failed to properly conceal and they detect it, they will ask me to leave. And that is that and I will shop somewhere else such as walmart. I generally follow my state law restricting where I can and cannot carry. However I make minor changes to accommodate Federal Installations and the VA which is strictly anti gun under title 18 section 930 (Correct me please if I have that wrong.) that provides for fines and imprisonment among other things.

I have auto drafted my city water bill so that I no longer have to physically go downtown to write a check and place myself in danger without a gun.

However many businesses in my State don't "Properly" sign specifically excluding CHL holders. There are SOME business that EMBRACE CHL holders including certain banks in Texas that boldly sign that CHL's are more than welcome while armed inside Texas Banks.

As far as the overflowing CHL classes, that is a good thing we all need. Training. That and knowledge that comes with it. The more we get the Nation trained, the better off we will be for it.

I think there are tens of thousands of CHL holders already in Arkansas and dozens each week go to class. And quite a few of those like myself return regularly to refresh and train to maintain the edge.

Last edited by HungrySeagull; 01-14-2011 at 09:54 AM.
  #5  
Old 01-14-2011, 11:48 AM
FLSTFI Dave FLSTFI Dave is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ticeman View Post
A local grocery store chain, Dahls's, has put up signs that ban guns on the premises, wonder how many will follow suit.
Then, my answer is I do not use that store.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillD View Post
Can they legally do that?

And if they can, remember, it's only a trespassing issue. If they see a gun, they can tell you to leave. If you refuse, you can be arrested for trespassing, assuming you are legally carrying the gun in the first place.
I think it depends on State Law. I know in TN any place of business can put up a sign at the front door banning guns. There is a size requirement for the sign. If you are in there with you're gun and get caught it could be ugly. For staters you will loose your carry permit, you will most likely loose your firearm. You will be fined, I believe 1K, it is a felony if I remember correctly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ticeman View Post
they can do that, the private property right trumps the right to carry in their stores, solution? shop somewhere else.
Exactly. We have a gun store I refuse to use, as he has a no loaded gun signs on the door.

Marina near me when TN opened restaurants to carry put up signs all over his place, no guns. This included his fuel dock, his marina slips, his ships store and restaurant / bar. I quit using him for anything as did several others. Owner asked me why I was closing my account four weeks later. Told him I do not do business where I can't carry my gun. I told him I understood his restaurant as most people just go to drink.

A week later I got a letter from him as did many of my friends. Carry was fine except in the restaurant / Bar. So now I still use him for my boat fuel, boat needs and such.
  #6  
Old 01-14-2011, 11:55 AM
Ticeman Ticeman is offline
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What I sent the Dahl's management....


"Let me say that I will never support your stores again. Your position to ban guns from your stores is indeed your decision, but it's also my right not to support it and take my business elsewhere, like Hy Vee. Sorry your management team is so shortsighted and uneducated on gun safety."

A Former customer
Mike
Des Moines
  #7  
Old 01-14-2011, 02:21 PM
Kokopelli Kokopelli is offline
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I believe carrying on posted property is a $500 misdemeanor in Tennessee.. Ron

39-17-1359,
**********
(1) It is an offense to possess a weapon in a building or on property that is properly posted in accordance with this section.
(2) Possession of a weapon on posted property in violation of this section is a Class B misdemeanor punishable by fine only of five hundred dollars ($500).

Quote:
Originally Posted by FLSTFI Dave View Post
Then, my answer is I do not use that store.



I think it depends on State Law. I know in TN any place of business can put up a sign at the front door banning guns. There is a size requirement for the sign. If you are in there with you're gun and get caught it could be ugly. For staters you will loose your carry permit, you will most likely loose your firearm. You will be fined, I believe 1K, it is a felony if I remember correctly.



Exactly. We have a gun store I refuse to use, as he has a no loaded gun signs on the door.

Marina near me when TN opened restaurants to carry put up signs all over his place, no guns. This included his fuel dock, his marina slips, his ships store and restaurant / bar. I quit using him for anything as did several others. Owner asked me why I was closing my account four weeks later. Told him I do not do business where I can't carry my gun. I told him I understood his restaurant as most people just go to drink.

A week later I got a letter from him as did many of my friends. Carry was fine except in the restaurant / Bar. So now I still use him for my boat fuel, boat needs and such.
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  #8  
Old 01-14-2011, 02:40 PM
Ticeman Ticeman is offline
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Yep, if it's posted, i ain't carrying in there, why chance a fine or losing your permit? that's dumb. I'll just hit them where it counts, in the wallet.
  #9  
Old 01-14-2011, 08:30 PM
Jammer Six Jammer Six is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLSTFI Dave View Post
I know in TN any place of business can put up a sign at the front door banning guns. There is a size requirement for the sign. If you are in there with you're gun and get caught it could be ugly. For staters you will loose your carry permit, you will most likely loose your firearm. You will be fined, I believe 1K, it is a felony if I remember correctly.
I'd like a citation for this claim, please.

Here in Washington, you don't get to write your own laws.

I'm betting you won't be able to provide a cite for this.
  #10  
Old 01-15-2011, 06:07 AM
FLSTFI Dave FLSTFI Dave is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLSTFI Dave
I know in TN any place of business can put up a sign at the front door banning guns. There is a size requirement for the sign. If you are in there with you're gun and get caught it could be ugly. For staters you will loose your carry permit, you will most likely loose your firearm. You will be fined, I believe 1K, it is a felony if I remember correctly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jammer Six View Post
I'd like a citation for this claim, please.

Here in Washington, you don't get to write your own laws.

I'm betting you won't be able to provide a cite for this.
1. I stated I believe 1k fine and believe felony, so I clearly did not state it as fact. Well I have yet to find it on the state web site, but it is 500 fine and a misdemeanor, this is from Roane county Sharifs office, and Kingston Police department, I called and asked.

Quote:
39-17-1315. Written directive and permit to carry handguns.

(b) (1) An individual, corporation or business entity is authorized to prohibit the possession of weapons by employees otherwise authorized by this subsection (b) on premises owned, operated or managed by the individual, corporation or business entity. Notice of the prohibition shall be posted or otherwise noticed to all affected employees.

(2) An individual, corporation, business entity or governmental entity or agent thereof is authorized to prohibit possession of weapons by any person otherwise authorized by this subsection (b), at meetings conducted by, or on premises owned, operated, managed or under control of the individual, corporation, business entity or governmental entity. Notice of the prohibition shall be posted or announced.

[Acts 1989, ch. 591, 1; 1990, ch. 1029, 10; 1993, ch. 471, 2, 4; 1994, ch. 943, 2-9, 11-13; 1995, ch. 434, 1; 1996, ch. 905, 1; 1999, ch. 498, 1; 2003, ch. 144, 1; 2007, ch. 318, 1; 2007, ch. 586, 3.]
http://www.michie.com/tennessee/lpex...templates&2.0#

The above links and information form TN Gov web site.
  #11  
Old 01-14-2011, 04:43 PM
M4finny M4finny is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ticeman View Post
they can do that, the private property right trumps the right to carry in their stores, solution? shop somewhere else.
Yep. Happened in my State too. One anti-gun Department store chain went under and, our local anti-gun Aldi's Market (German owned grocery chain) has a parking lot that resembles a ........ well a parking lot but without cars!

Funny thing, that same Aldi's was robbed at knife-point and the manager had to open the safe and give up the money in broad daylight. I don't go in the place. But, apparently the knife wielding thief failed to adhere to Aldi's sign promoting a "safe shopping atmosphere for all it's customers".

Go figure!

I predict they will go out of business soon.
  #12  
Old 01-14-2011, 06:33 PM
230therapy 230therapy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ticeman View Post
they can do that, the private property right trumps the right to carry in their stores, solution? shop somewhere else.
I'm still trying to figure out how mere property outweighs my life.

No life, no property.
  #13  
Old 01-14-2011, 07:48 PM
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AndyC AndyC is offline
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Dropping off a business-card like this may hammer home the point:



It's one example of many out there, but if it helps, I found it here
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  #14  
Old 01-14-2011, 08:31 PM
Jammer Six Jammer Six is offline
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I'm still trying to figure out how mere property outweighs my life.

No life, no property.
Don't know the answer to that, but maybe a Texan will chime in. In Texas, you can kill to protect your property.
  #15  
Old 01-14-2011, 08:55 PM
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AndyC AndyC is offline
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Texas statute:

Quote:
Sec. 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:

(1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and

(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:

(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or

(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and

(3) he reasonably believes that:

(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or

(B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.u...E/htm/PE.9.htm
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  #16  
Old 01-14-2011, 11:25 PM
M203Sniper M203Sniper is offline
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Originally Posted by 230therapy View Post
I'm still trying to figure out how mere property outweighs my life.

No life, no property.
It does not. We have had this out before. I suggest a search to aviod thread hijacking and the eventual/inevitable lock.
  #17  
Old 01-15-2011, 08:35 AM
CTI1USNRET CTI1USNRET is offline
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NO FIREARMS ALLOWED in Dahl's Foods. "Criminals: the employees and patrons of this establishment have been disarmed for your convenience."
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  #18  
Old 01-15-2011, 12:11 PM
Jammer Six Jammer Six is offline
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Every time I read one of these threads, where everyone gets their panties in a knot over someplace they can no longer get caught breaking concealment, I think "what are the chances I'll be attacked in here?" and the answer is usually just above zero.

Then I think "when was the last time someone caught me breaking concealment? Oh, wait! I've never been caught breaking concealment!"

I carry almost all the time. But if I can't carry somewhere I want to go, I take my weapon off, and go on in.

My weapon serves me, I don't serve my weapon.

Carry on.
  #19  
Old 01-14-2011, 01:22 PM
Stella's Fella Stella's Fella is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillD View Post
Can they legally do that?

And if they can, remember, it's only a trespassing issue. If they see a gun, they can tell you to leave. If you refuse, you can be arrested for trespassing, assuming you are legally carrying the gun in the first place.
Yes, absolutely they can. It's their property, they can do as they want. It would be the same if you had a sign on your front door banning crack pipes. If someone with a crack pipe shows up, you tell 'em to beat feat.
  #20  
Old 01-14-2011, 01:58 PM
Paulee Paulee is offline
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Ticeman, we saw the same thing in Texas when we passed our CHL laws. Dire predictions of "blood in the streets" from the Brady crowd, which never came true, and businesses putting up their "no gun" signs. After a while, those signs started disappearing, as the businesses started realizing that permit holders are not a threat. Wait a bit, things will probably settle down before long.

Last edited by Paulee; 01-14-2011 at 02:01 PM.
  #21  
Old 01-14-2011, 05:50 PM
dsf dsf is offline
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Originally Posted by Stella's Fella View Post
Yes, absolutely they can. It's their property, they can do as they want. It would be the same if you had a sign on your front door banning crack pipes. If someone with a crack pipe shows up, you tell 'em to beat feat.
Crack pipe, illegal drug paraphernalia, may not be the best comparison although I agree with your conclusion. "No shoes - no service" might be a better way of making the case for a business owner determining who is allowed on private property open to the public.
  #22  
Old 01-14-2011, 09:53 AM
mnyshrpknvs mnyshrpknvs is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ticeman View Post
Holy smokes, this state is goin crazy. There are letters to the editor in the Des Moines paper daily regarding gun control, front page articles, it's all over the news about the new gun laws. Permit classes are overflowing, I was in one the other day that had a 100+ people, and the next class was about the same.

Our new Gov. stated last night that he will not touch the gun law issue because he is a big gun proponent, he stated "It just seems too me that if there are more people carrying guns, a bad guy will be less likely to commit a crime" bravo! finally, a a governor that gets it!

From the front page this morning...


http://www.desmoinesregister.com/art...t?-Not-so-fast


A local grocery store chain, Dahls's, has put up signs that ban guns on the premises, wonder how many will follow suit.


Hopefully, people will show their disapproval of Dahl's by not shopping there at all or at least not as much. I am all for local business support, but obviously in this case locally owned business is not for the support of the law, and the rights of local citizens. I just can't support a business like that.
  #23  
Old 01-14-2011, 11:43 AM
Gunner-08 Gunner-08 is offline
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Ticeman........put together something like this to pass out to store managers whenever you see one of those 'signs'. Then explain to them why you're going shopping elsewhere.

http://misc.eeaston.com/ngnm-mn/no-guns-mn.pdf
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