1911Forum banner

.380 ammo for defense..

23K views 70 replies 38 participants last post by  DeltaKilo 
#1 ·
what is the most potent or best to use ?
 
#2 ·
I'd frame it as what's the most powerful and reliable ammo you can shoot, while hitting what you want to hit--it's first and foremost about bullet placement.

I like the Winchester Ranger most. It feeds reliably and it's consistent from shot to shot. The exact model is: RA380T Winchester Ranger .380 95gr T-Series. It comes in a box of 50.
 
#3 · (Edited)
After reviewing the Winchester Ranger and its limited penetration characteristics (like 8", which is far from the desired 12"), I personally wouldn't recommend it.

Although I'm not a fan in other calibers, the Hornady Critical Defense load, Gold Dot, or the Federal Hydra-shok are about as good as it gets in .380. The Hornady loads don't expand very wide, though.

If you want to save money, many consider flatnosed FMJ to be the best choice in .380 because they penetrate well and are low-recoil. If I had a tiny .380, I'd probably go the flatnose route too. They overpenetrate, but bone would probably cause that not to happen the same.

Critical Defense in .380:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-H9M6cZGd18

Federal Hydra-shok in .380:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQ6PgHhNYg0&feature=relmfu


Winchester Ranger-T in .380 (High velocity and widest expansion, but poor penetration - PDX1 is almost identical, btw):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxpHOB132ak&feature=relmfu

Speer Gold Dot .380:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTTuXpFChsA&feature=relmfu

FMJ and flatnosed from Federal and Winchester:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkscBbMGp5k&feature=relmfu
 
#7 ·
I have shot Hornady CD thru my LCP and have found that in my firearm and with me the Speer GDHP was the most accurate. As a note I have not had a malfunction in my LCP with either of those rounds or the WWB FMJ I have put thru it.
 
#13 ·
Cor Bon 90gr JHP(1050fps/220ftlb) and Buffalo Bore 95gr (1125fps/267ftlbs) are both good SD rounds for a .380. but as above a .380 is minimal for SD. Most of the little .380's barrels are short and may not give you the speed advertizes. As will they hold up to the higher power rounds, I would say yes, as long as you are not runnning 1000's of rounds of it thur you gun.
I think the .380 has a place in SD and own one but it is not my primary carry weapon. Remember hand guns are not the best choice to stop a bad guy. With that in mind carry the biggest you can safely shoot and control :) IMHO
 
#14 ·
.380

Many people trade down in caliber to get a small, pocket size pistol, and the .380 has gained in popularity.

I have a Colt Government .380, which is not a blow back, but a short recoil system (barrel links down like a BHP) and shoots hot loads very well. If I was forced to carry this weapon for SD, I too, would go for penetration and use either a FMJ or a good hard cast bullet.

Even so, if I need to carry in my pocket, I have a pocket holster and my Kel Tec PF-9 is my preferred choice with 125 gr. JHP +P rounds.
 
#17 ·
..........^ ^ ^ ^ ^ what he said ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ .........
 
#16 ·
Now I'm old enough to know what a junk yard is. And junk yards contained washers, old cars, sinks, wood, refrigerators, old doors, etc., etc. As a kid we shot every caliber imaginable (of course some like the .40 & 10MM were not placed into commerce yet) at every thing we could find. Can you tell I'm a penetration kind of guy? No controlled laboratory experiments. In the .380 I too prefer the FMJ as this caliber needs a good copper jacket to achieve sufficient penetration.
 
#20 ·
The FMJ is still the best way to go. The Barnes SCHP and Hornady XTP seem to do well in .380, and, grudgingly, Critical Defense seems to work OK for .380.

For absolute penetration and effectiveness, however, like I said, FMJ is the best choice for .380.
 
#25 ·
Thanks, that's what I saw. Still not enough for me. When you throw bone into the equation there just isn't enough inertia in an 80 gr bullet, especially when a lot of that kinetic energy is lost during expansion. I have to admit, for a little bullet those hard cast flat nose rounds LOOK pretty capable of deep penetration through tough media. I should have a chance to try them by weeks end.
 
#29 ·
Hornady XTP

Hey DK,

I recently purchased a P238. Love the way it shoots, low recoil, very accurate. LuckyGunner had a sale on the XTP load. I bought 10 boxes and have fired 4 down range with excellent accuracy and zero failures. I was glad to see you support this load (happy medium between expansion & penetration). I always find your advice to be outstanding.

Jim
 
#32 ·
Curious ... how many total rounds have you shot through your Kahr? Mine doesn't have more than maybe 350 rounds through it and I've had no problems with either of the BB flat points. I did have some issues with feeding during the first couple hundred rounds fired (various brands), more with some ammo than others. I also realized that my Kahr was pretty dry and after I lubed it liberally and continued my break in, it cleared up quickly. You probably do not have this problem, but these little guns require a good firm grip so that part of the recoil energy is not absorbed by a limp wrist. I have not fired as many rounds of the BB through the gun as I intend to do before my final acceptance of it. I only ordered a small amount to begin with to see how it functioned. I have more expected to arrive any day now.

I was also a bit concerned to see how the slightly higher pressure loading would be handled by the Kahr, but I had no issues with that either. I do feel that, like most +P type loads, a steady diet of the stuff will accelerate wear and tear. Then again, I don't anticipate firing a huge number of rounds through this pistol ... just enough to validate function and keep the cobwebs blown out. I have no suggestions, other than perhaps to fire a few more and see what happens. Exactly what sort of feeding issues do you have with the BB?
 
#34 ·
Buffalo Bore is really expensive ammo. I have about 300 rounds on hand that I bought from Midway when they had a coupon sale deal going on. I'm glad I did, they sometimes have runs on them and they become difficult to find.

My Kahr has about 1100 rounds (assortment) through it. It wasn't broken in until 800 rounds. Right now it eats everything, except perhaps Golden Sabre 102 gr load. I have only about 80 rounds of Buffalo Bore through it. About 40 rounds of the Hardcast 100 gr and about another 40 of the 90 gr HP.

The Buffalo Bore has never failed in any gun I shot with it. I've used in my NAA Guardian 380 (about 3 magazine loads), in my Walther's PK380 (also 3 mags)and in my Sig Sauer P238 (about 5 mags). The only gun I won't shoot with it is my Seecamp and the LCP because they are not warranted for +P loads.

But I swear by the Buffalo Bore either in the Hardcast or the 90 gr HP. The Ballistics on it are as good as a .38 spl out of a snubby, and in a gun like the Kahr P380, with 7 rounds and flat profile that weighs in around 12 oz, you can't beat a deadly concealable package like that. Accurate as well. Nevertheless, I still try to carry a larger caliber when I can.
 
#33 ·
I don't have a Kahr. It's a Sig p238. I've got around 2000 rounds through it. The problem with the BB jacketed flat points was FTF but not every round. I suspect that bullet profile has a lot to do with reliable feeding in these mouseguns with steep ramps and short actions. Round profile flat pt bullets like in BB lead hard cast work fine.
 
#36 ·
Igun,

Sorry ... my mistake ... not sure why I thought Kahr when I should have known better! I agree with you that the small semi autos are probably more prone to feeding problems. Could be that a gently polishing of the feed ramp in your Sig would make a difference ... but be gentle!!

P-man,

Yes, it's expensive, but no more so than most 'premium' rounds these days. I bought this stuff for carry loading, not range use, but I always want to fire enough rounds to make sure they feed reliably before carry. I am in agreement with your opinion of the Bufflalo Bore ammo. I also purchased some of their hard cast wadcutters for short barrel .38 specials, and some of the same in .45 Auto Rim for my S&W 325 Night Guard revolver. I believe those full wadcutters at premium ammo velocity are really good stuff for serious social encounters!
 
#37 ·
No worries kthom. I agree--polishing can help but my 238 still chokes on certain types of ammo. So does my EMP .40.
 
#38 ·
I've been doing quite a bit of testing over the last two months. I do the Youtube video thing because people expect it, but the real meat is in the blog posts referenced in the video comments.

http://www.youtube.com/user/ljutic1?feature=mhee

After testing 11 loads, I've found that about .500" expansion is optimal if you want penetration inches in the double digits. I've probably got another 10 to 15 HP loads to test before I start in on the flat nose FMJ stuff. I don't get into the recommendation business, I just try to convey what I observe. With that said, I've personally changed my .380 carry ammo choice after reviewing these first 11 tests.
 
#39 ·
Nice reviews, Agent47. Thanks for your hard work. Any chance you'll get to testing some BB +p lead hard cast? It would be very interesting to see a comparison with the JHPs, and maybe with a 9mm or two.
 
#40 ·
My first generation Sig P238 did not like the BB +P, which really rips out of the little Sig. Haven't shot it out of my second generation P238 and probably won't. I use Speer Gold Dot in all my carry weapons, most of the tests I have seen with this bullet are pretty impressive and I trust it.

My Dad's Bersa .380 liked the BB +P and recoil was more manageable. BB's hollow points come with a Gold Dot bullet.

Those test video seemed to conclude that the Gold Dot bullet was a good penetrator, expanded nicely, and retained weight..............good enough for me.

Out!
 
#42 ·
I carry the Corbon DPX (all copper hollowpoint) in all of my carry guns. That being said, in my Keltec P3AT, I alernate every other round between the DPX and an FMJ load. At first I was hesitant that it might not feed reliably, but so far after several magazines full, it seems to work fine in my .380. My thinking is that I get the best of both worlds that way (expansion and penetration). Of course, my biggest hope is that my theory remains un-tested and remains just a theory . . .
 
#43 ·
Years back I did a lot of informal testing firing HP's into wet newspaper. The .380 Rem Golden Sabers would expand to a larger diameter than Hydrashoks would out of a .357 mag every time.

Mean anything? Possibly not, but my 380's carry Sabers everywhere they go.

YMMV.
 
#44 ·
The problem with this is that in .380, you want the opposit of what you want in major calibers.

Remember, like a parachute, the larger the hollowpoint expands, the more energy it takes for it to penetrate through tissue because it meets greater resistance.

So, with a .380 and its limited penetration with fmj ball already, larger expanding hollowpoints only further reduce its penetration capabilities. Dpx and wadcutters are the better choice because they tend to penetrate more deeply while still maintaining good effect on tissue.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top