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1911 45 acp Super info

10K views 49 replies 15 participants last post by  Bearbait in NM 
#1 ·
I have searched. Somewhat connected to hunting with a 1911 45 acp. and improving the 45 acp's preforance (wish I could write a spell!!)
Many Thanks K.T.
 
#4 ·
Thanks SRJim & DeltaKilo,

The "45 Super" just seems like a great idea! Gives the 1911 more of a range for me, 22lr mini mag, target load semi wadcutter, getty-up mid weight bullet, and a hunting load. And I can learn one pistol well, like second nature, no having to think quickly.

Also, I do not want to blow up my Baer's. Besides, it may take me quite a while to learning to shoot them well.

Thanks guys, K.T.
 
#6 ·
A true .45 Super utilizes cases made from the .45 Win-Mag,which allows the higher pressures that cartridge generates.There is considerable data available in the Gun Digest Book of the 1911,and other loading data on the websites of the powder manufacturers.Be my LAST choice for a hunting handgun,or a defensive one.
 
#7 ·
A true .45 Super utilizes cases made from the .45 Win-Mag,which allows the higher pressures that cartridge generates.There is considerable data available in the Gun Digest Book of the 1911,and other loading data on the websites of the powder manufacturers.Be my LAST choice for a hunting handgun,or a defensive one.
What would, Bill?
 
#11 ·
Long story short, I considered setting up a 1911 to run .45 Super, thinking it would take nothing more than stiffer springs. After looking at the wiki and some other resources, even the .460 Rowland seemed to be more work than I wanted to put in, so I invested in a good magnum revolver.
 
#20 ·
2 years ago,north of Kalispel,Mt.,I had a face to face encounter with mature silverback boar grizzly.He had scented my 3 pointers,and was sneaking out of cover to avoid them,when he ran straight into me.At 60 feet,a 700 pound bear is one imposing SOB.I drew a 629,2 in. barrel,S&W Trail Boss,loaded with Buffalo Bore 340 gr. solids.THAT is a proper gun for a life or death encounter with a large,potentially deadly,animal at close range.He stood up,woofed nervously a few times,then dropped down on all four and quietly padded off.Had I been armed with some pipsqueak load in a 1911,I would have had zero chance of surviving an attack.Knowing I was adequately armed,I stayed calm,avoided direct eye contact,and we both lived to see another day.A 1911 is a defensive handgun,and having been in on the kills of over 150 wild boar,and the spectacular failures of numerous heavy caliber magnum handguns,that platform would never even make the list of handguns I would choose for the job.
 
#18 ·
DK and SRjim (and the OP) interesting thread, thank you for posting. I too am considering the 45 Super and learning what it may take to upgrade my pistol. I like the 460 Rowland much better but here is my dilemma... I have a Commander size pistol (EB-SFC).

I am looking into Springco and the spring upgrades for either this 45 Super or atleast the 255gr +P HC round. I do not intend to "hunt" with it, but want something a little stronger on my side for the Texas woods and the Hogs specifically - more protection than hunting. This SFC is a dedicated field gun and will not get "alot" or a steady diet, but will be used for this purpose. So no real need to convert back & forth to 45 acp.

So thoughts please on a 45 Super conversion on a Commander?

To the OP - assume you have a 5" Government model? If so, I too suggest the 460 Rowland. A buddy of mine (and Forum member) converted his 5" 1911 with the Rowland kit and simply loves it - really easy to go back & forth with a field strip type exchange.
 
#21 ·
Hello Mr. Pistol Fan,

Yes it does help! What is "the heavy flanged barrel"? I have a Kimber Carry Pro II (SS heavy frame), first 1911 45 acp I ever owned. A pistolsmith told me to get a 5" 1911 and what did I do! Just like the Combat Commander type. This now has a 22 lr conversion unit, good for learning (and wearing-in the trigger and action). Also learning how to clear jams.

I did head the pistolsmith's advice and now own three more 1911's; one Kimber Super Match (this pistol made this newbe look like a ringer at the range, would group great for me, just jammed-up way to often), two Les Baer's (PII & CC).


Would like to set-up one for the 45 Super (this also includes warmer 45 acp and +P loads). No intension of ever hunting a bear (understand they look alot like a person under the coat), now wild pigs and boar I could do that! I would also love to shoot a bowling pins. Guess I need to learn about reloading.


This fourm is a great way to enjoy the "Sport" and be safe. Safe for the shooter and those around us. Many Many thanks. Thanks Baerhunter
 
#23 ·
Hello Mr. Bill Manatt,

I was worried reading the beginning of your post, kinda hollow inside, then I read more and was pleasently surprised. I read many post about backcountry hiking and some people just seem to want to have a pistol to kill a bear. I hope "my God" gives me the strength to as you have, I thank you.


My Dad was a tought guy and the only fun he had, that I know of, was hunting. I'm a meat eater but do not like the idea of killing an animal just for the fun of it. My Dad did serve-up what he shot.

Out camping and/or hunting the two legged kind might think twice.
 
#28 · (Edited)
A lifetime outdoors,countless days in grizzly and wolf country,many up close encounters,and I have never had to fire a shot.Drawn my gun many times. There are a lot of people who turn into arrogant fools when they strap on a handgun,or carry any gun.They open fire without ever being in danger.You'll read their "exploits" here,from time to time,pathetic accounts of animals killed when they presented no danger at all.Your dad sounds like a stand up dude.You be one,too.Enjoy whatever gun/cartridge combo you decide on.
 
#31 ·
Yes,BB does not recommend that load in the 629,but I don't carry it as an everyday plinking load.It works in my gun,and would serve it's purpose as a last ditch stopping load in the encounter I described.No 1911 round would,period.It's easy to armchair quarterback field scenarios,and claim this or that is adequate,in this or that scenario.Having been there,I can tell you that the one or 2 shots that a person MIGHT be able to get off in that kind of deal.......would be a crap shoot,at best."Adequate" hunting loads in a handgun,presuppose an ideal shot placement,indeed,PERFECT shot placement is a mandatory requirement.They fall far short when you need a true stopping load,and an animal that size,in the half light of heavy timber,who is going to be on you in 2 seconds or so.........sorry ma' man,a semi auto plinker ain't gonna' work.And there's no guarantee that ANY round would be adequate.But a 340 grain slug at,1475 fps,is a damn sight more promising than a 255 gr. pill at 900 fps. Then you have to be able to stay calm and shoot straight enough to make that power work for you.We're not talking about some pissant pig here,the mass of one of those big bears,in your face,is something that will give you religion,and a new perspective on the word "adequate".
 
#32 ·
I guess there’s no changing your mind about the “1911 pissant semi auto plinker”, however, there might be a couple of us on this board who have used revolvers and pistols to actually hunt with and maybe have taken a head of game or two over the years. I think a young lady in Northern Alaska a few years ago killed a Polar Bear with a 22rf rifle – probably not the best caliber for that scenario but she got the job done and there’s been an elk or two harvested with both the 1911 and a Glock 21 using the correct bullet.

I think the ole Colt SAA using a 250 grain lead bullet behind a dose of black powder just might have “stopped” a large animal or two bent on doing the SAA’s owner a little harm – and I think the ole 1911 in a faraway land many years ago, just might have dropped a water buffalo or two in a rice paddy.

So, I’ll just take my chances and bring the ole 1911 with me this summer to Alaska and when fishing, I’ll do my best to avoid any bear encounters but if everything goes to hell in a hand-basket and I find myself in a bad way with either a moose or bear – I’ll handle the situation with the 1911 and if by chance I don’t even get a chance to unholster the “puissant semi auto plinker” before getting flatten – I’ll have my affairs in order and the grandkids will enjoy the rifles & handguns left behind (especially the 475 & 500 Linebaughs).:D
 
#34 ·
I sent NewGuy1911 some of my 45Super loads.
 
#35 ·
Don't want to start a peeing contest but: Buffalo Bore 340 Grn. at 1478 f.p.s. is out of a 7.5" Ruger RedHawk, 1401 f.p.s out of a 5.5", which would make a 3.5" at about 1324 f.p.s. Now my calculations would put a 2" at around 1250-1275 f.p.s. If I am correct, a 2" barreled 44 mag. would be around the 832 foot pounds of muzzle energy level. I can make a 230 grn. .45 super have over 1000 foot pounds of muzzle energy. So I think I will stick with my pip squeek of a caliber.
 
#36 ·
tsp45acp, Many Thanks. starting to think about reloading the 45 acp, your a big help.

Looking for a Dillon RL-550b ($1200, ouch) and may buy 45 Super brass and/or 460 Roland brass. Would like to settle in on just a couple of 45 acp loads. Power factor 200 gr lead SWC (LSWC, H & G #68 ??) for action type sports, and a 250/255gr bullet for bowling pins and Boar hunting.

The 185 gr bullets does not get my attention
 
#37 ·
tsp45acp, Many Thanks. starting to think about reloading the 45 acp, your a big help.

.

The 185 gr bullets does not get my attention



But 155's and 300's are a blast for different reasons.:D Tracy
 
#38 ·
tsp45acp, just ordered some 460 Roland brass. When I've learned a bit these will be for mild 45 Super loads. Used to have a Ruger 44 mag. shooting it was no problem at all just did not like the cheap pistol. If it had been a S & W I still would have it. Would be shooting 44 Special rounds. Also have a 357 Colt Python that's not to shabby at 100 yds.


What's a good Steel round and what fun do you have with the 155/185 gr loads?
 
#39 ·
460Rowland is a longer case than 45acp. It wont work in a 45acp bbl unless you have the bbl re-chambered (reamed) to accept the longer case. It has the same OAL as 45acp, but it was intentionally designed not to work in non-re-worked bbls.

Never had much use for the 185's, looking thru my old notes, I don't even have any load recipes written down....shows how many I tried if I didn't save the data LOL.

Didn't realize it had been that many yrs since I played with the 152's. My old notes show an OAL of 1.255 and load recipe's as follows:

10.1 HS-6 accurate good for pins
6.8 231 accurate good for pins
8.6 Power Pistol Hot accurate
6.8 Unique lite lite accurate
7.4 Unique nice load accurate
7.8 Unique

This is what I have written down....as always use discretion when using others loads and check with other reloading manuals to compare, but this is all I have. I do remember that with them being a lite wgt bullet, hot loads didn't have a big recoil, but had a great "blast out the front. I vaguely remember buying the 152's as an experiment with my just acquired comped longslide bbl. Figured that with a lite bullet and BIG slow powder charges, I could get my comp to work like those with 38 super bbls. The Power Pistol and HS-6 loads looked promising, but don't remember much about it any more. The short bearing surface of the 152's made it very easy to set the bullet in slightly crooked.

Steel loads. Basically they're below starting loads in most reload manuals and at times require a lower wgt recoil spring in my 5" gun.

these are all with 230rnl at 1.245oal:
3.45 Trail Boss
3.37 American Select
4.97 WAP/Silhouette
4.45 Universal Clays
3.6-3.9 Unique
3.1 Clays
4.0 231
3.4 TiteGroup


Hope these help. Tracy
 
#40 ·
Tracy, please don't laugh, the idea was there is an unsupported part of the 45 acp brass in some 1911 45 acp barrels. To my knowledge the 45 Super and your 45-8 brass is to re en force that weakness. The 460 Roland brass (tell me if I'm wrong) is also somewhat stronger. In stead of redoing 308 I'm trimming down 460 Roland brass.

Might experiment with 200... 225.230... 255 gr bullets. Not going to try your real hot loads just very warm 45 acp to light 45 Super. I also will check with you before I load anything close to factory +P. I can try a 22-24 lb spring and the flat firing pin stop.
Might even try the 460 Roland re-coil system.

I've learn the 460 Roland is the way to go for larger game. Pigs probably are the only animal I might hunt.

Tracy, thank you for your support
 
#41 ·
Trimming down would be the only way it would work. Sonds like a decent idea. It might actually be better to trim down the Rowland brass because if you were to trim down 308 brass, you'd still have to ream the inside of the case to accept the .451/.452 dia, bullets. Nope, sounds like you got it figured out so far. Let me know how it works. Tracy
 
#42 ·
I understand I am a little late to the game here, but I just started a couple of months ago playing with the 45 Super. Long time 460 Rowland shooter.

You can absolutly trim Rowland brass for the Super, and you can buy Starline 45 Super brass. I have seen no difference in case head expansion, nor any signs of bulging interchanging either. I worked up loads properly for each type, and ended up with the same velocities for powder charge with each, but I still would not work up with one, and assume it safe to go to a max charge with the other.

You can absolutley do the Super in a non-ramped barrel, as if you look at the Clark 460 you will find a traditional throated barrel. Lots of unsupported area, but the brass is designed to help mitigate this possible issue. I am currently working with low to mid 45 Super loads in a Brown barrel (very much throated), with zero issues. But, and it is a big but, a traditional throated barrel offers zero margin for rounds that might get setback when chambering, so you need to have your reloading skills up to snuff, and you need to know that your choice of bullet and magazine are working precisely.

And in any of those articles that talk of really insane recoil/action spring rates, please toss that notion. There are other things to do first. I am currently running my Super with a 20lb spring with a Springco Corbon/Rowland guide rod.

It's kinda nice having one gun set up for acp, super or Rowland.

Craig
 
#43 ·
And in any of those articles that talk of really insane recoil/action spring rates, please toss that notion. There are other things to do first. I am currently running my Super with a 20lb spring with a Springco Corbon/Rowland guide rod.

It's kinda nice having one gun set up for acp, super or Rowland.

Craig


Another thing to think about (and I've set all of my guns to shoot +P loads mainly), is to up your mainspring from stock #23 to a #25 or #26 (my new to me Delta has a MUCH heavier mainspring than any of my 45's...I'm thinking it's prob a #30), and an EGW flat bottom firing pin stop to help delay the bbl from unlocking. EGW is out of stock on the blued Flat bottom's right now, waiting for confirmation of when they'll be in.
 
#44 ·
Tracy,

Thanks. Those are the other mods I was alluding to. As my gun was first set up for the Rowland, the FPS and mainspring were my first mods. I have one of the lighter C&S hammer and sear sets, which came with a 19 mainspring. I am running it now at 25, and due to the hammer and sear being very good quality, it does not affect my trigger in any adverse way.

I do not know if it was one of your post's that pointed me to the Sprinco, but so far I am really liking it. In doing my research, most of the threads ended mostly in the usual "a FLGR is not need in a 1911", and not much positive about the Sprinco, but so far so good. I am seeing zero excessive wear on my spring tunnel, frame rails and the Sprinco guide rod head, so I almost ready to order a second for a spare.

I would love to know what Colt is using for a mainspring in a Delta, if indeed it is that high. I kinda half decided that if the Sprinco did not work out, I would next try a delta recoil assembly, if it would fit. I think the idea of a disposable guide rod that aids in hammering is a reasonably sound idea.

Craig
 
#45 ·
I would love to know what Colt is using for a mainspring in a Delta, if indeed it is that high. I kinda half decided that if the Sprinco did not work out, I would next try a delta recoil assembly, if it would fit. I think the idea of a disposable guide rod that aids in hammering is a reasonably sound idea.

Craig


Not sure what mainspring Colt uses, but I'm leaning toward this NOT being stock, though I could be wrong. Other than I use Sprinco's in almost all of my guns, the main reason the Delta has one is that the dual spring set-up that comes stock in the Delta was shedding plastic chunks inside the gun......NOT a good thing in my opinion. Also, most of the "Delta" threads I've read always advise to get rid of the stock dual spring set-up as one of the first things to do.

My "other" 2 Sprinco's are both of the 2-piece flgr style, while the one I got for the Delta is the standard "short" guide rod style. Other than being able to "hear" the spring compress (when cycled by hand), I am liking the short version better.

After what I've seen with the stock unit, I'm not sure I'd go with it if the Sprinco doesn't fly. I'd more look to a similar version from STI the "RecoilMaster" if memory serves right.
 
#46 ·
Tracy,

I was a little confused by Sprinco, after I spoke with them and got my unt. I was told I would have to drill the rod for a paperclip type take down tool, but found when I ordered the Corbon unit from Brownells that my bushing turns just fine with the recessed one piece rod. No tools needed. I guess the Rowland version is identical to the Corbon, with the addition of the paper clip hole. It would be nice to not have to turn my bushing with the slide fully forward, but I'll give up a little wear there for no more two piece rods. Maybe on the next one I'll do the Rowland version and have the option to go "tool-less" or paperclip. I really started to dislike the Clark two piece.

So, how many rounds of 10mm before the Colt rod started to go to pieces? I assumed it would at some point, but it has to be better than Wilson or CP buffs that do not last for beans. Besides the other issues they bring to the table.

Craig
 
#47 · (Edited)
Tracy,



So, how many rounds of 10mm before the Colt rod started to go to pieces? I assumed it would at some point, but it has to be better than Wilson or CP buffs that do not last for beans. Besides the other issues they bring to the table.

Craig


I honestly have no idea. I bought it used approx 2 months ago. I currently have only put about 20 rds thru it....mainly for feed/reliability testing with the mags. Only loaded 3 rds in each of the 3 mags I have for it. Checked for feed/fire/ejection issues, and to see which of the 2 JHP's I liked better (GA 165's or Hornady 180's). It was after this testing that I discovered the plastic chunks inside the slide around the bbl and recoil springs (also during shooting, the brass was flying WELL over 25' in the air...so I knew that a new recoil spring was needed). Ordered the Sprinco and a couple of new springs (a #18 & #20) for it. Also discovered during this cleaning session that the top left grip screw bushing unscrewed when I attempted to remove the grip screws. Got the wraparound grips off without tearing them up. Bushing was not stripped, just loose with the screw stuck in it. Had to ruin the bushing to get the grips off. New bushings arrived Fri along with the special order bbl bushing (stock was loose on the slide and looser around the bbl). New bbl bushing is "snug" on the bbl and a little too large to fit into the slide. I'll have to do some "sandpaper" work on the OD of the bbl bushing until it's "Les Baer" bushing tight. All are from EGW. Flat bottom firing pin stops are out of stock right now....waiting for Karen to shoot me an e-mail for when they will be ready. I need a 80 series for the Delta and an 80 series and a 70 series for other 45acp's I have. Tracy
 
#49 ·
Never shot/handled/or personally seen a CZ 97B.....

No idea what it would take, or even if it's possible.

I know some 45 makers specifically state NOT to shoot super's out of them.

Call CZ. They will have your answers.
 
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