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Reloading the 22TCM

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#1 ·
Anyone else out there Reloading the 22TCM?

I just loaded a few up with H110 and am going to go out and give them a whirl but was wondering if there were others? This may belong in the reloading section but I figured I'd ask here since the TCM was an RIA thing as of now...

 
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#2 ·
This seems to be the hotbed of TCM fanatics right here! If I may ask, what bullet did you use and at what weight? There has been a lot of speculation around the LGS about performance with a heavier or more frangible bullet. Enquiring Minds Want to Know (as they say)!
 
#3 ·
I am actually using the exact same 40gr bullet that is loaded from the factory, I get them from Fred Craig and they are actually pretty darn cheap... I am staying with his prescription so I don't blow my TCM (and hand) up! lol. Here is some of the info:


22 TCM Reloading Component Pricing and Specs
LEE 22 TCM 3 Die set = $ 75.00
22 TCM New Brass Per 100pcs = $ 18.00
22 TCM 40gr. Soft Point HP Per 100 pcs = $ 6.50
TCM 18rd. Magazines = $ 35.00
Standard Shipping (One box of components) = $ 11.00
We only recommend (1) commercial powder for the 22 TCM
Winchester 296 or H110 (same powder)
STARTING LOAD 9.0 grains
MAX LOAD 10.0 grains
Recommended Primer: Tula/Wolf Small Pistol Primers
( Tula Primers are Available from Powder Valley 1-800-227-4299, or you can use any Small Pistol or Small rifle Primers….. NO MAGNUM PRIMERS!!!)
The LEE 22TCM Die set is a three die set which includes a non-carbide sizer/decapper, Powder dropper die, and a Bullet seater/crimp die. The Powder dropper is designed to work with Lee progressive presses but can be altered to work with a manual dropper or with other progressive presses. You may want to purchase a universal expander die from Lee in order to flare the case mouth before bullet seating. Lee does not include this die in the standard set.
WARNING - The 22TCM is a very high pressure cartridge and should only be loaded by an experienced reloader. Failure to follow the given loading data could cause serious damage to your pistol and even you or a bystander. Never exceed the maximum load as indicated on this sheet. Understand that the Rock Island Armory TCM pistol is only warrantied with the use of Factory Ammo, and use of reloads can affect certain warranty related issues.
By purchasing reloading dies and components, the customer acknowledges the risks involved in reloading, and takes full responsibility for any issues that may arise from the use of 22 TCM handloads.
Please send in your order with a Personal Check or Money Order payable to Fred Craig. I’m sorry, but I do not accept credit cards.

Please Mail Check To:
Fred Craig
460 Intrepid St.
Pahrump NV 89048
775-513-3962
 
#4 ·
Also, Fred did mention to me that there are other bullets you can use (I believe like the V-Max, etc) but they (Armscor and Fred himself) are hesitant with the reloading of this cartridge in general because people might get a little bit too creative and blow some stuff up... for now I'm sticking with keeping it as close to factory as possible but I'm sure there are some "Interesting" things you could do if you had the urge (and courage) to do so :)
 
#5 · (Edited)
Thank you for the information as it may serve to calm down some of the "What if...?" crowd who seem to be speculating stuff they may never do (I hope!). I'm not a reloader myself but this seems like a cartridge that (as you said) should be reloaded by experienced practitioners only. I enjoy shooting TCM and was very impressed at the accuracy of the round in the 1911 platform. I was amazed at the difference between the holes TCM put in target paper versus that left by a good .22LR at the same distance. The TCM made an even, smooth-edged hole that looked like a punch had been used while the LR left a slightly ragged perforation; very noticeable! My usual indoor range has responded to my use of the TCM by banning the cartridge, so I've been getting some time in with the (admittedly cheaper) 9mm configuration. But there are other ranges in the area...
Also, has anyone to your knowledge gathered any data on velocity/energy drop at various distances or anything on maximum effective range for the TCM? I'm curious about how far the beaten ground extends when using this round outside. Again, thank you for the information.
 
#8 ·
I have heard of being banned from some indoor ranges that the backstops are not able to redirect the energy and it causing damage, I think this is kind of a "badge of honor" :biglaugh: Once I dial in a load that I'm confortable with shooting through my chrono at a long distance I would be interested to see what its velocity drop is at far distances. I' would rather not shoot one through (Literally) my chrono and blow it's guts out quite yet though, ha.

Love the caliber though and will be working on it until I can match the factory round since it acts like a little paper puncher as you mentioned... burning perfect clean holes, and as long as I can mimic the accuracy for practice I will be happy:)
 
#6 ·
9 grains of h110 with the factory bullet would'nt cycle my tcm , always left the spent case in the action .
9.0 grains of h110 only chrono'd at 1500 fps or slower
10.0 grains got things working again but still only hits about 1700 fps
I am at 11 grains now and my tcm behaves the same as factory rounds now and chronos at or around 1900
BTW the factory round comes in at 1950 on my chrono and has quite a bit of spread between rounds like 1900-2050
 
#7 ·
Thanks for the info, I just loaded some up with 9.4 Grains of H110 to give it a middle of the road test but haven't got out to try them, Unfortunately where I live we don't have much access to indoor ranges (and the ones we have are old and would probably damage their backstops!) I am loading at the factory depth OAL to try that first, I am also curious to see if different primers make a difference as well.

Once I get to some testing and data I will let you know how mine works out, with the factory loads it would push out 1950fps (39Degrees F @ just barely over sea level) on a chrono but did notice a fairly wide spread in velocity as well.

Also I am shooting it out of what right now is a "special" gun and might have slightly different experiences as mine is a 4.26" Barrel: http://www.keystoneweapon.com/Keystoneweapon/Firearm_Reviews/Entries/2012/11/4_Custom_RIA_22TCM_9_Commander.html
 
#9 ·
Rockyracoon, are you shooting the traditional OAL and the factory bullet or are you trying something else?

Also Anybody... BRASS... I am a Brass hoarder and try to not lose any.... If any of you want to trade your 22 TCM brass I have lots and lots of brass among other stuff to trade, I'm also always looking for 38 SUPER.

If you have been hoarding your TCM brass and have no desire to reload, I would be interested in trading or bartering... I have lots of brass/nickel... especially in .40 etc...
 
#11 ·
Rockyracoon, are you shooting the traditional OAL and the factory bullet or are you trying something else?
factory bullets with oal the same as the armscor rounds . I think Fred errs on the side of caution with the load recommendations .

1450-1500 fps won't vaporize a water bottle like 1950 will :biglaugh:

also sucked to have to cycle the action every time because it wouldn't fully cycle the slide or eject the spent case . Maybe it's just my tcm with 5 inch barrel.

Things didn't start to work right until I went to 10 grains , but chrono still showed low fps compared to the armscor rounds .

everything was chrono'd at 5ft or so from muzzle

my pistol is happy camper with 11 grains and I would pretty much assume that to be a max charge. I can vaporize melons like the factory rounds do .:)
 
#10 ·
Also Anybody... BRASS... I am a Brass hoarder and try to not lose any.... If any of you want to trade your 22 TCM brass I have lots and lots of brass among other stuff to trade, I'm also always looking for 38 SUPER.

If you have been hoarding your TCM brass and have no desire to reload, I would be interested in trading or bartering... I have lots of brass/nickel... especially in .40 etc...[/QUOTE]

I only was able to fire 50 rounds before the banning at my local range and seven empties bounced off the station sidewall and beyond the firing line so they were irretrievable. I still have the other 43 and will have more after I can get to another range to run the gun in TCM configuration. I don't reload so I'll probably donate my brass to whoever can use it. I've heard the factory will also take brass in on trade for new ammo but haven't confirmed that. I'll keep checking this thread for any of your updates.
 
#15 ·
tried the Tula/Wolfs and they have far too many duds in the pkg maybe it's just the lot of them I have ..........

I use CCI's pretty religiously in everything I reload . and just an FYI there is absolutely no difference in fps on the chrono using the Tula or CCI primers in the 22 TCM cases
 
#16 ·
Thanks Rocky,

It's interesting because I have never tried Tul in Sm Pistol or Sm Rifle but have used them in Large Pistol... out of the 5000 Large pistol I've shot I only ever had two not go off...

It's too bad there is all that silly HAZMAT fee stuff or else I would tell you to sell me a few so I can experiment with them!
 
#18 · (Edited)
see that phone # at the bottom of his address .......call him .......talk to him .....he's a nice guy ...............;)

but yep send him a letter with what you want for supplies , a money order always gets me my stuff in just shy of two weeks from the time I mail it . Don't forget to add 11 bucks for shipping charges .
 
#20 ·
Hey Rocky, I got to go out and put some handloads to the test, You were right about them being a little under powered, I didn't have a chrono but I also didn't need one to see that 9.4gr of H110 wasn't going to cut it because they didn't always want to extract, some dribbled out of the gun but many didn't eject and just went like 90% back into battery. The good news is that I've got room for more powder and will be doing so.

On to the next charge in mind, the only nice thing is that the brass was right at my feet and I didn't have to go hunting for it :)
 
#24 ·
Nice Rocky, sounds good, I was wondering are you using your fired brass or using new brass, the reason I ask is because after resizing/depriming my once fired seems to grow from 1.026" to 1.028" and didn't know if you've got any input on this since youve got a head start on this? If you're trimming I didn't know if you knew an appropriate rate to trim, I was going to take like .002" off of them but wondered what you were up to on this.
 
#25 · (Edited)
re-using fired brass

these cases have been shot 4 times total since new
have trimmed nothing
out of 500 cases 95% of them are at 1.025/1.026 "
a few come in at 1.020/1.021"
and have found one case at 1.030"

To be honest I think they vary that much even when new .
some of the new cases I measured from pulling the bullets on factory rounds are 1.025/1.026
I have also found a couple of cases that the rim was so big in diameter it would'nt fit in the shell holder .

I'm not too concerned about it as long as nothing goes over 1.030 as they head space off the taper and not the case mouth .

Now for some results ...........

11.0 to 11.1 grains H110 with the 40 grain Craig Bullets
45 degree F no wind
1. 2008 fps
2. 1960
3. 1959
4. 1967
5. 1926
6. 1923
7. 1922
8. 1893
9. 1912

High velocity 2008 low velocity 1893
average velocity 1941
extreme spread 115 fps
std. deviation 35 fps

by the numbers it's right there with the "FACTORY ROUND"

heres a pic of the target with 30 holes in it
18 of them are in the center two rings

this was off hand with NO REST at 25-30 yards , it's an 8 inch target
 
#26 ·
Nice report Rocky, thanks for the leg work.

Since you made no mention, may we deduct there were no signs of overpressure on the cases?

I have about 250 rounds loaded at 9 grains to shoot or unload before bumping to 11.
Sure wish you had written this a couple weeks sooner. ;)

I have noticed a bit of case stretch and trimmed mine at 1.023. No other sizing needed.
I'm using the Lee dies from Fred, a Rock Chucker and W296.

More to follow. (wish I had a crono)
 
#29 ·
Great data rocky, I'm firing my 10.2gr test tomorrow and likely a few test ones up another notch.... @old draftsmen, when I did mine at 9.4 they would rarely eject, you might have a long range session ahead of you by cycling the action by hand a lot... Thanks gents, and rocky, great shooting!
 
#30 ·
I need to correct this statement, the 9.4gr would eject fine after some die tweaking (bumping the shoulder back .001"ish more) but they do dribble out of the gun which is super convenient that they land so close but they don't eject with enough uumph for my liking and don't seem to eject quite far enough for my liking as far as reliability in my particular setup (Keep in mind I am using a one-off 4"TCM commander that was tuned by Arnel @ Armscor including some extractor customization that may differ in the 5" variants)

Tested: (H110 and WSR Primers) *For entertainment purposes only :)
9.4gr - I mentioned above the soft ejection above and I feel it needs more power

10.2gr - I really liked this one, the brass didn't fly a half mile away and it was accurate enough to be a good practice load but is a little less powerful.

11.1gr - This basically feels to me like a factory TCM round and by using my brass "fling o meter" I would say it is very similar to factory load.



Notes:

As far as accuracy, they all seemed pretty good, but as far as "power" they go the obvious direction of more powder, more power... my chrono was lent out so all I had was my intuition: how far the brass went and a 1/4 steel plate, they all hurt it :biglaugh:... but 11.1 hurts it about the same as factory.

I have resized and trimmed my brass back a tad (trimmed, chamfered, deburred) I have a few different lots of ammo that were purchased at different locations and at different times and now they are the same.

Either way, enjoying testing and it looks like my tests are lining up for the most part with others on here that have been in this phase before, thanks!
 
#32 ·
rockyraccoon said:
everything was chrono'd at 5ft or so from muzzle
That's interesting. Every chrono that I have tried recommends . . ten . . feet minimum.
Especially since the TCM has such a pronounced muzzle blast,
I would think the additional distance would be helpful. :scratch:
 
#35 · (Edited)
my chrono instructions suggest 10 feet for rifles and says specifically you can move closer for handguns .

I start at 5 ft and move it out until it no longer gives errors from the muzzle blast .

It gives me the most accurate MUZZLE VELOCITY'S that way (you think maybe that is why it's called muzzle velocity ).........YMMV

works for me :)
 
#39 ·
I reloaded 15 the other day, 5 each of three different loads, to try. Using the Lee auto disk I used the 9.3gr, 10.1gr. and 10.8gr loads. When I went out the other day it was 41deg. windy and overcast dark. Our outdoor range has covers over the lanes so my new Chrony didn't work so I can only go by how they shoot. The 5, 9.3s would dribble out or not eject at all. The 5, 10.1s would kick out about 6ft. behind me shoot fine. The 5, 10.8s would kick out about 8ft behind me and behind the bench. I shot one of the Armscor loads and it went about 8ft behind and behind the bench also so it looks like the 10.8 is close to the Armscor load. I will probably settle on the 10.1 load but I want to make another trip with better light to see where each one falls. Like to have frozen but had fun anyway. Love the TCM, always get someone wanting to know what I am shooting and taking notes to look it up.

TC
 
#41 ·
My testing is basically directly aligned with yours... I actually load the 10.2ish ones just so I dont have to chase down my brass :) and they still hit mid 1700's in 30 degree weather :) but 11.1 puts them dead on with factory loads from my chrono testing and brass ejection patterns. good stuff
 
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