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It suprises me that some people believe in a fair fight

25K views 157 replies 88 participants last post by  Cappi 
#1 ·
I was talking to some folks at a business convention (that had nothing to do with guns) the other day and somehow the subject of self-defense came up.

It surprises me (but maybe it shouldn't) that some people idealistically and mistakenly believe in maintaining a fair fight even in the case of life-threatening self-defense.

I should qualify beforehand, this discussion did not have anything to do with the prelude to the fight - e.g. how it started, who started it, etc.

Anyway, my detractors' general view was that if someone is beating you with his fists, you should certainly defend yourself but you do so only with your fists, and you don't escalate and pull a knife or a gun (if you had such).

Similarly if someone comes at you with a knife, you use a bat or such but you don't pull a gun.

I get the sense that these folks have never been in a real fight for their lives. Anyway, I didn't spend more than a couple of minutes on the topic before giving up trying to get through to them. But I found it too disturbing and incredulous not to post and get it off my chest.

I think these are the same folks that think we should "shoot to wound" or that we should hunt animals with our bare hands.

Mods - feel free to remove this post if it doesn't add any value and only comes across as a rant.
 
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#2 ·
I think a lot of this came about from the way fights often got and get portrayed in popular media. The hero would never use a knife in a fist fight after all.
I agree with your assessment that in all probability the folks you were talking with had never been in a real fight. The whole concept comes down to a mindset, at least in IMHO.
If you are serious about protecting yourself and those you care about, you have to be willing to do what is necessary to do so. If this means bringing a bat to a fistfight, or a gun to a knife fight then so be it. My 2 cents
 
#6 ·
Depends on the situation. I have seen many cases of a person dying merely from a fist punch to the head. (I work with the medical examiner) If u don't have a reasonable way out or if you suspect the attacker would be relentless, use of deadly force would be justified.

There really is no such thing as an actually fair fight outside of a boxing match. They are delusional to think that if a criminal is losing a fist fight they wouldn't suddenly pull a knife. They are not gonna say "time out, go get your knife so this is fair"
 
#5 ·
I have noted that A LOT of people will actually tell you that they think, when it comes to it, that they would rather allow themselves to be killed than to kill anyone else, even an aggressor.

I suggest you read "On Killing" by General Dave Grossman. It discusses how difficult the military finds it to get recruits to the point that they will kill the enemy.
 
#143 ·
The problem is that too many people have bought the lie that humans in general are good, generous beings and that we just need to get through to the mistaken ones. This leads to the idea that truly evil men are an abnormality... a rarity.

Hardly.

What's the exceptional rarity is that a truly evil man survives to gain power. In lawless countries it's becoming not so exceptional. Or in the more law-oriented societies, these evil men simply use tactics other than violence to gain power.

Once someone finally accepts that fact that there truly IS evil out there and that evil men do truly indeed exist and they don't always look the bad guy but that many would still kill you if it suited their purposes or was "necessary" to get their way, THEN you start to get people over the inability to kill. It's still not fun for a decent man to kill another man, but at least the inability has been removed.

As far as a "fair fight," it's only fair if I win, and I'll cheat if that's what it takes.
 
#7 ·
Excessive force

If you use excessive force in a fight where fists are being used then expected to be charged with Manslaughter and possibly murder.
This is such a vague statement that implies such grave consequences, it demands further clarification.

If a person is 280lbs. and is beating a 140lb person to near unconsciousness, the smaller victim may be "in fear for his life" since if he is knocked unconscious the beating may continue and cause his death. If the smaller victim were to pull a gun and shoot and kill the larger fistfighter, it is doubtful he would be charged, as long as he can prove he was in fear for his life. A jury would be hard pressed to disagree noting the size and weight disparity. Anyone can say the smaller victim used excessive force to stop the attack, however it very well may be the justifiable use of deadly force, as described in some state laws. The use of deadly force may vary by state laws.

If two people get into a fistfight, and one person is badly injured, picks up a baseball bat, and warns his opponent he has had enough, yet the attack still continues......he may be in fear for his life, and the use of a bat may save his life. If the aggresssor does not break off the attack, and an injured fighter will not be allowed to concede or surrender, the aggressor may be showing excessive and unnecessary force, and the injured fighter has every right to protect his life with any means available.
 
#8 ·
To the OP:

People who have no knowledge of something tend to not speak realistically about said something. There's really no need to try and correct them because 95% of them will feel that they know more about the subject than you do and will argue even against fact.
 
#12 ·
Humorous aside I cannot resist...

Facts are useless. You can prove anything that's even remotely true with facts...Homer Simpson.
 
#9 ·
Speking as someone who has been in a fight or two.

One in particular I recall being attacked by a former semi pro boxer. Mind you he only attacked me with his fists. It only ended by judicious use of a fire axe by myself.
At the trial, the Coast guard ruled in my favor. So to those that think that they should fight fair. I hope that they have adequate insurance policies to take care of their loved ones. :hrm:
 
#11 ·
The same liberal mentality is the reason for disarming America, the star wars missile defense is an example. If it would work properly America would be almost untouchable in a nuclear war. The liberals think this would be unfair to our enemies.
 
#33 ·
In 1987, the American Physical Society concluded that a global shield such as "Star Wars" was not only impossible with existing technology, but that ten more years of research was needed to learn whether it might ever be feasible...I don't really think liberalism had anything to do with this, but everyone is entitled to their own world view.
 
#14 ·
There are a percentage of People who never was subjected to a fight or a violence during school years and even later. Those are the lucky ones.

The rest of us harness what we have, right then in the time of violence and channel it towards total victory as fast as possible before you take too much damage or even lose the fight or life.

The few are pounded into the dirt while trying to learn how to deal with the "Fight or Flight" emotions and violence that suddenly hit them in the playground for example.

Others are subjected to it in Basic Training and for most, it's a first time being exposed to such personal training. Some will require several applications before they can master it.

I don't believe in a fair fight. If someone is coming for you... you are "It" no one else is going to help you. If I am coming for you (Usually am not that way...) you probably will be standing at the Peter's Gates wondering *** happened?

I avoid such talk in Social Circles, preferring to listen and decide what is good and what is... chest beating garbage.

That gun in the belt holster is a tool, a very serious and powerful double edge sword. Correct use if the time ever comes for you is necessary and Life will never be the same after.
 
#16 ·
There is only one rule, in my book. You do what ever it takes to WIN and stay alive. There are no other rules that apply in a fight for your life or others lives.
 
#17 ·
well...there might be one exception. If you are in a battle of wits with a Democrat, is it really fair to use your brain?
 
#18 · (Edited)
Any physical confrontation with me is going to get treated as a threat to my life. I'm old and getting frail. I will do my best to avoid the situation but, once you escalate to physical contact, the next thing you will see is my gun. Continue, and I'm shooting.

In fact, if I estimate that physical contact is imminent, you may see the gun sooner. Display as a deterrent is legal in Florida.
 
#20 ·
I think every state should allow drawing of a weapon, be it a knife, bat or firearm to brandish and give the attacker the chance to stop his attack, and if he does not you have every right to use the weapon in any manner you see fit until his attack stops. If he gets a bad knife cut, concussion from the use the bat or a bullet through his cranium that's his poor choice and choices are what life is all about, at least that is what all the successful people have said.

Sadly here in Texas one of my Co-workers was confronted by a group of more then 4 persons with aggression while he was out with his pregnant wife and rushed his wife into his truck got in himself, locked the doors and attempted to get away... one of the persons stood in front of his only option to exit out of the parking lot and he didn't want to run him over, then another went to the drivers window broke it and grabbed his head... He finally decided it was time to draw his .45 and he brandished it and the persons all back away he called the police and they ran... none of them have ever been Identified or convicted of any crime. He has been in and out of the county court house defending his right to be free and his .45 is still in "evidence" and his lawyer said he may just have to settle because the justice system is not letting up after 3 years of court processes.

Idk how this crap happens but I believe in the possession of higher force as to prevent the fight before it happens, I'm not the attacker nor the criminal and so if he is scared or "in fear of his life" too bad go attack some one who doesn't care to take the time to defend themselves, I have a life to live.
 
#22 ·
seems like some of the most vocal espousers of a "fair" fight (that I have read elsewhere) are healthy, strong, youngish macho guys. You know, "fight like a man", "only a chickenturd needs a weapon" etc.
Of course this is due to them having a perceived advantage at hand to hand combat, so "fair" is subjective as we all know by some politicians use of the word.
I have walked away from fights, been called names for it too, but I don't fight at the drop of a hat like some seem to. If I get into a fight, it has to be a real good reason, or no way out, and then I need to end it as quickly as possible.
That's my feeling on it anyway.
 
#25 ·
I've had two friends killed in fist fights in the past ten years, there is nothing tame or honorable or whatever you want to call it about a 200 lbs man wanting to crush your skull in with his bare hands. Both instances there were no weapons of any kind involved it was just one man beating another to death with his bare hands, and in both instances the person killed was the larger of the two fighting. A wise man once said "My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals".
 
#30 ·
Fair fight?
Ending it quickly by any means available is my goal. If I can do it by talking you death, that would suit me fine. If I have to shoot you, that's fine too. As long as me & mine survive. Where does "fair" come in?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DzcOCyHDqc
 
#45 ·
+1


There are three kinds of "Fair".

County, State and World.

You take your hog there to get a Blue Ribbon.

If I don't see a hog, and I don't see a Blue Ribbon,

We Ain't At The Fair!
 
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